Burn it all down. This is rock bottom

[phil77]

What are chances Wildhack hires in-house? It HAS to be zero percent right?

It better/should be zero but respected people on this board said it’s a lot higher than zero

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The Benny Praise isn’t because he was really good. It’s just a relative thing. He was much better than he has been. And it was still only against Colgate. Just because Colgate dominated us doesn’t mean they were such an impressive opponent that it makes Benny’s performance something spectacular.

Yes, we are young [Benatar!]. But the composition of the team is still JB’s responsibility. We didn’t portal. Our youth can’t be an excuse for suckage when the coach is the one who determined we didn’t need to portal.

This is a perfect illustration of diminished expectations over a long span of time. The Pollyannas are either looking at one game and saying it was a problem of matchups or youth... or they’re looking at 45 years and saying we are nothing without JB. Neither perspective reflects the truth of what is actually happening to us, nor do they represent a way for us to be anything more than what we are seeing now. Those fans will still be finding ways to make themselves feel better when the trend continues further downward and we are winless in the conference.

I’ve always said JB was not a great coach but has had a great career. And many people can’t reconcile that difference. We are seeing here that he isn’t doing anything different. The difference is that we always used to have more talent than our opponents. And we won because of that. That hasn’t been true for a while, and we have become exposed. The system was an inconsistent component of some of the success and a liability at other times. When we don’t have superior talent, that same system is a consistent liability. We are not likely to recover without great talent and great talent is unlikely to want to play for a lame duck, lazy coach that isn’t enjoying current success. We are going to have to hope that Weitzman can buy us a few impactful players to rejuvenate our image and jumpstart the dying legacy.

History is nice, but it is far more short lived in the minds of outsiders. National relevance isn’t something we can take for granted just because we have had it for a few decades. The fact that we have a Dome—which looks spectacular in the exterior shots—makes it easier for us to recover and become relevant again, but JB isn’t going to be presiding when/if that happens.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The Benny Praise isn’t because he was really good. It’s just a relative thing. He was much better than he has been. And it was still only against Colgate. Just because Colgate dominated us doesn’t mean they were such an impressive opponent that makes Benny’s performance something spectacular.

Yes, we are young [Benatar!]. But the composition of the team is still JB’s responsibility. We didn’t portal. Our youth can’t be an excuse for suckage when the coach is the one who determined we didn’t need to portal.

This is a perfect illustration of diminished expectations over a long span of time. The Pollyannas are either looking at one game and saying it was a problem of matchups or youth... or they’re looking at 45 years and saying we are nothing without JB. Neither perspective reflects the truth of what is actually happening to us, nor do they represent a way for us to be anything more than what we are seeing now. Those fans will still be finding ways to make themselves feel better when the trend continues further downward and we are winless in the conference.

I’ve always said JB was not a great coach but has had a great career. And many people can’t reconcile that difference. We are seeing here that he isn’t doing anything different. The difference is that we always used to have more talent than our opponents. And we won because of that. That hasn’t been true for a while, and we have become exposed. The system was an inconsistent component of some of the success and a liability at other times. When we don’t have superior talent, that same system is a consistent liability. We are not likely to recover without great talent and great talent is unlikely to want to play for a lame duck, lazy coach that isn’t enjoying current success. We are going to have to hope that Weitzman can buy us a few impactful players to rejuvenate our image and jumpstart the dying legacy.

History is nice, but it is far more short lived in the minds of outsiders. National relevance isn’t something we can take for granted just because we have had it for a few decades. The fact that we have a Dome—which looks spectacular in the exterior shots—makes it easier for us to recover and become relevant again, but JB isn’t going to be presiding when/if that happens.

I disagree on JB as a coach. There was a time when he could take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his. He won games against Patrick Ewing with Danny Schayes and Andre Hawkins playing center. He turned Moten into the BE all time scorer. He made people believe his great college players should have been great NBA players.
He beat great Kansas teams with inferior overall talent.
His end game strategy was almost flawless. He ran analytics with time and score as well as anyone ever.
His move to zone only defense allowed inferior athletic teams to compete for national championships.
But for Bobby Cremins cheating, he has Anderson and Marbury and probably some more FF appeances.
I contend that if he had the stream of talent that Williams, K, Self, and Smith had he would have a few more rings and still more FF appearances.
He has just lost the will or the ability to continue that success, and that’s what makes this so sad.

 

[NorSyr66]

As it seems that you are close to JB in age, it appears you also struggle with facing the reality of the current poor state of the program and have difficulty accepting the end of the Boeheim era.

It’s easier if you just accept the Boeheim era has already ended. The successful years are never returning. We’re just living in some weird transition period where a guy refuses to acknowledge his time has passed and he’s doing far more damage to the program by sticking around.

Bit older than JB but not ready to accept the era has ended. This is a young team with many raw assets - can they blossom or fail? I am willing to give coach the opportunity to make it happen. If he can't then I agree, the run is over. I just refuse to dive on the sword after the 2nd game of the season.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I disagree on JB as a coach. There was a time when he could take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his. He won games against Patrick Ewing with Danny Schayes and Andre Hawkins playing center. He turned Moten into the BE all time scorer. He made people believe his great college players should have been great NBA players.
He beat great Kansas teams with inferior overall talent.
His end game strategy was almost flawless. He ran analytics with time and score as well as anyone ever.
His move to zone only defense allowed inferior athletic teams to compete for national championships.
But for Bobby Cremins cheating, he has Anderson and Marbury and probably some more FF appeances.
I contend that if he had the steam of talent that Williams, K, Self, and Smith had he would have a few more rings and still more FF appearances.
He has just lost the will or the ability to continue that success, and that’s what makes this so sad.

Some of this is true, but there are counters to just about every one of these perspectives, as well.

None of this matters now, though. JB is not performing even at a minimum standard.

He earned ‘equity,’ but he spent it all last year. A hundred thousand fans should not have to endure this, just to placate one man.

 

[OrangeDW]

Duke played Kansas and Michigan St. played Kentucky tonight. Remember when we were almost always at the center of the college b-ball universe this time of year?

We got worked by Colgate. Again. I can’t believe this is real life. Enough is enough.

 

[NorSyr66]

I disagree on JB as a coach. There was a time when he could take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his. He won games against Patrick Ewing with Danny Schayes and Andre Hawkins playing center. He turned Moten into the BE all time scorer. He made people believe his great college players should have been great NBA players.
He beat great Kansas teams with inferior overall talent.
His end game strategy was almost flawless. He ran analytics with time and score as well as anyone ever.
His move to zone only defense allowed inferior athletic teams to compete for national championships.
But for Bobby Cremins cheating, he has Anderson and Marbury and probably some more FF appeances.
I contend that if he had the steam of talent that Williams, K, Self, and Smith had he would have a few more rings and still more FF appearances.
He has just lost the will or the ability to continue that success, and that’s what makes this so sad.

With you till the last sentence. You are probably right, I am just not there yet. I see a young team in front of him and he needs to make a winning team out of it. If not, then I agree, it is sad and it is time to move on.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Bit older than JB but not ready to accept the era has ended. This is a young team with many raw assets - can they blossom or fail? I am willing to give coach the opportunity to make it happen. If he can't then I agree, the run is over. I just refuse to dive on the sword after the 2nd game of the season.

Can they blossom?

Sure.

But there's nothing in JB's recent coaching tenure that suggests he can get that out of them.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

It better/should be zero but respected people on this board said it’s a lot higher than zero

Lol if he hires in-house i would be utterly bummed…. Truly want to get back into SU hoops

 

[pfister1]

Duke played Kansas and Michigan St. played Kentucky tonight. Remember when we were almost always at the center of the college b-ball universe this time of year?

We got worked by Colgate. Again. I can’t believe this is real life. Enough is enough.

Good thing we’ve got a couple games to get things together before Cornell comes in.

 

[OrangeDW]

Pitino. Why not? What are we clinging to?

 

[Orangezoo]

Bit older than JB but not ready to accept the era has ended. This is a young team with many raw assets - can they blossom or fail? I am willing to give coach the opportunity to make it happen. If he can't then I agree, the run is over. I just refuse to dive on the sword after the 2nd game of the season.

I think the logic here makes sense yet this also was a team we played that will be a loss that is hard to recover from given the weakness in our schedule. We no longer have the luxury of another bad loss and need to steal a few games that weren't must wins before. That's a lot to ask of a team that seems to lack an identity on either end.

It also wasn't just the result. Energy, intensity and focus were all lacking out there tonight. That comes from the coach in large part. 19 3s given up on defense. Game wasn't even competitive. Post game there was little fire.

We watched and waited last year for these same things and it never happened.

 

[Scooch]

Bit older than JB but not ready to accept the era has ended. This is a young team with many raw assets - can they blossom or fail? I am willing to give coach the opportunity to make it happen. If he can't then I agree, the run is over. I just refuse to dive on the sword after the 2nd game of the season.

It’s a young team because JB refused to bring in anyone of consequence from the portal, and thought he could con everyone into believing he had a slew of freshman who can contribute right away.

It’s impossible for at least a couple of these guys not to get better. But the reality is that we’ll be down to a 6.5 man rotation soon enough, playing zone and scuffling along in conference play. We know this because it’s how this program has rolled for years.

 

[sdorange]

Great thread title, but I am genuinely curious what rock bottom looks like to the folks in charge of these decisions. Does anyone really know?

 

[tptcuse]

There is no coming back from getting blown out by Colgate two years in a row, and there is not one conceivable advantage that Colgate athletics has over Syracuse. This should not be happening.

100% the bolded part above. No words for this loss tonight (again.)

 

[hungrychuck]

I disagree on JB as a coach. There was a time when he could take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his. He won games against Patrick Ewing with Danny Schayes and Andre Hawkins playing center. He turned Moten into the BE all time scorer. He made people believe his great college players should have been great NBA players.
He beat great Kansas teams with inferior overall talent.
His end game strategy was almost flawless. He ran analytics with time and score as well as anyone ever.
His move to zone only defense allowed inferior athletic teams to compete for national championships.
But for Bobby Cremins cheating, he has Anderson and Marbury and probably some more FF appeances.
I contend that if he had the stream of talent that Williams, K, Self, and Smith had he would have a few more rings and still more FF appearances.
He has just lost the will or the ability to continue that success, and that’s what makes this so sad.

A lot here to disagree with. I think you overestimate JB overall.

But one glaring point is that he didn’t “turn” Lawrence Moten into anything. Moten arrived that player. As ready as any freshman I’ve ever seen at SU.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

It’s going too fast for me to tell who he’s hitting the rock bottom on and it’s driving me nuts.

Quite certain it’s Ziggler.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Bit older than JB but not ready to accept the era has ended. This is a young team with many raw assets - can they blossom or fail? I am willing to give coach the opportunity to make it happen. If he can't then I agree, the run is over. I just refuse to dive on the sword after the 2nd game of the season.

Some of the key flaws I’ve observed in individuals age 75+ is their inability to listen and their rejection of change designed for improvement.

 

[OttoMets]

But it’s not the second game of this type of play. It’s like the 6th straight year or something, I don’t even know anymore

Seriously, Duke in 2014 was the inflection point. They played great but got screwed and it's never been the same since.

 

[dan7800]

I actually see the program dropping even further. Five years ago one could have said the program was at rock bottom by being a bubble team year after year.

We're basically Pitt at this point. A has been, totally irrelevant program.

 

[Gotothehole]

Settle down folks. You are looking at a senior dominant team against a team that JB is building with 7 new players. Yes we have Jesse and Joe but Joe was and still is a huge defensive liability that burns us with solid three point shooters. especially from beyond the arc. I can guarantee you will not see a repeat next year. Of course Colgate may not schedule us or demand we play in Hamilton. I honestly think there is a lot for JB to build on tonight. Remember the lose to LeMoyne several years back helped develop a very good team

Please stop . It’s time for this experiment to end

 

[Gotothehole]

No and yes. The ACC kills our recruiting but we had no choice.

Wrong That happened when hop left.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sound like a pessimest. We can agree to disagree, not on the game, but on positive vs negative on Syracuse basketball.. No bones to pick with you personally. I just want to put a positive spin on a young season. May very well be in your camp before the end of the season. Just do not want to jump there after two games.

Did you see the (lack of) attendance?
Syracuse plays high level sports TO MAKE MONEY.
The number of people still willing to spend their time and money seeing this hot trash in person is just about over.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don’t understand what we were hoping to accomplish? Hope they miss? They freakin shredded us, while we sat back and took it. Beyond pathetic.

I haven’t seen enough of Joe in man to man to know if he makes me want to puke, but 3+ years of his zone defense surely makes me want to puke. That’s not an exaggeration. It’s so disgusting I want to throw up. He doesn’t even try on a lot of possessions.

At one point in the 2nd half, he had Copeland and either Torrence or Mintz at the top of the zone, and Joe was on the back line (!) in the right corner. I mean, what is he thinking with that? If you're going to have to play 3 guards to try to get an offensive flow, you HAVE to play man.

 

[samspann1]

Where's Townie at?