Day Five Fall Football Practice: Wednesday 8/10/16

[13mike13]

I listened to this interview of Pickard, and I'm just shocked at the discrepancy between the strength and conditioning process and approach of old staff versus new staff. It's such a controllable variable, I just cannot understand why the old staff would ever leave the kids in such a conditioning hole, subject to injuries, etc.? Do you think the old staff just lacked experience? Knowledge?

 

[Whitey23]

I listened to this interview of Pickard, and I'm just shocked at the discrepancy between the strength and conditioning process and approach of old staff versus new staff. It's such a controllable variable, I just cannot understand why the old staff would ever leave the kids in such a conditioning hole, subject to injuries, etc.? Do you think the old staff just lacked experience? Knowledge?

Maybe the old staff didn't have the ability to switch up the S&C staff? Just a thought. No info.

 

[bnoro]

I listened to this interview of Pickard, and I'm just shocked at the discrepancy between the strength and conditioning process and approach of old staff versus new staff. It's such a controllable variable, I just cannot understand why the old staff would ever leave the kids in such a conditioning hole, subject to injuries, etc.? Do you think the old staff just lacked experience? Knowledge?

Because the program was run by a coach that preached being 'hardnosed' over everything, and the former S&C guy is an old school guy set in his ways for just building mass, probably.

 

[sufandu]

I listened to this interview of Pickard, and I'm just shocked at the discrepancy between the strength and conditioning process and approach of old staff versus new staff. It's such a controllable variable, I just cannot understand why the old staff would ever leave the kids in such a conditioning hole, subject to injuries, etc.? Do you think the old staff just lacked experience? Knowledge?

For whatever reason the changes in exercise science take forever to filter down to the majority of practitioners. I assume it's the "That's always worked for me. Why change?" philosophy. To be fair, it is an inexact science and lot's of different methods have worked for different people over the years. Freeney swears by Hicks and he has access to anyone available.

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[RF2044]

For whatever reason the changes in exercise science take forever to filter down to the majority of pracritioners. I assume it's the "That's always worked for me. Why change?" philosophy. To be fair, it is an inexact science and lot's of different methods have worked for different people over the years. Freeney swears by Hicks and he has access to anyone available.

But the opposing argument to that is that Freeney is an athletic freak with rare physical attributes who might ultimately prove to be a HOF'er. No matter who he trained with, he'd still be a rare specimen. He's just comfortable with Hicks.

 

[money3189]

Maybe so. I do think Chris has that ability, though, to play quite a bit at DE. For that matter, Steven could probably pull some duty at DE. More confident in his abilities at NT and 3 Tech, though.

Funny you say that Cubs I was thinking Steven can play some D end too. He's down to 280 and he moves well.

 

[Cuse'91]

Funny you say that Cubs I was thinking Steven can play some D end too. He's down to 280 and he moves well.

No need to ever ask where the beef is in that scenario. Do lineman sometime have to drop back into coverage in the Tampa-2, would that deception be impossible with such a big lineup?

 

[money3189]

For whatever reason the changes in exercise science take forever to filter down to the majority of pracritioners. I assume it's the "That's always worked for me. Why change?" philosophy. To be fair, it is an inexact science and lot's of different methods have worked for different people over the years. Freeney swears by Hicks and he has access to anyone available.

I like Hicks. Good guy and well respected. He put in a lot of years of service to SU athletes. His relationship with Freeney doesn't mean some of his stuff wasn't outdated. Freeney obviously was comfortable with him. A lot of athletes go back to work out where they started. It could be for psychological reasons or what not.

 

[money3189]

bcubs9497 This is good film on Ward's D line play. Not sure if you seen it already. Taylor Royster #33 . Zach Colvin #92. 2015 film. These two were very productive. This might give us an idea of how Steven and Chris will be used.

Zach Colvin BGSU 2015 Highlights

 

[billsin01]

Stephen Bailey ‏@Stephen_Bailey1

Syracuse DE Jake Pickard raves about S&C coach Sean Edinger. Lifting #s up, but players also healthier. Lots of shoulder injuries last year.

I know there's already been massive arguments on here about S&C but tidbits like this are very interesting and absolutely speak to a couple of things that appear to be beyond argument about strength and conditioning in general. Namely:

1. S&C, with the exception of the short Marrone period, has been a problem for this program since the end of the P era. That's not to say we haven't had nice moments or that S&C was the primary reason we have struggled or that the S&C coaches didn't know what they were doing or that we haven't had other issues (facilities perhaps, recruiting, etc). Rather, relatively simply put, we haven't had the physical edge on many teams the past few years and generally it hasn't been a strength since those badass teams of the late 90s (and of course, Freeney).

and

2. There is clearly a new philosophy on the hill. It's not like this has come up once or twice, it seems like almost every day since spring practice up through when players started trickling in, there has been some sort of intriguing nugget regarding the type of training they are doing, the shape and body composition of returning players, etc.

Bottom line is that it will be an interesting story to watch. One of the points I don't think I've seen made around here is how important S&C is to Syracuse as opposed to some of the big boys. Obviously it's huge for everyone but particularly if you are a school that it going to have to rely on developing kids that a little bit more raw at a school like Syracuse vs. some of the big boys who are pulling in kids that look NFL ready from day 1 (Ronnie Stanley at ND is one of those guys I remember them saying basically walked on campus ready to play LT).

There will be a ton of stories here over the next couple years but watching if there is any notable difference in the way these kids develop year-to-year will be a big one.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[CuseCactus]

We're going from meathead to master. I'm not at all surprised that S&C is getting upgraded. Everything is getting upgraded.

Remember Shafer's first game - against Penn State? I do - everything had noticeably degraded from the end of Marrone's last year - particularly on offense. There was a complete regression.

I expect to see the exact opposite when they take the field against Colgate. We have a real program again - with a professional at the helm. He has a plan - he's abundantly clear about it - and he's going to deliver (I hope). There's very little ambiguity now.

With Shafer? I never really knew where things were headed - on both sides of the ball. (Case in point the Georgia Tech debacle.) The offense never had an identity and the defense at times was a complete sieve. He was more of a friendly uncle than a leader - same feeling I got from GROB. I get the sense from Babers that he's more like Marrone, and hopefully a step (or 3) above Marrone.

Very excited. Season can't get here soon enough.

 

[Ish88888]

Maybe the old staff didn't have the ability to switch up the S&C staff? Just a thought. No info.

Maybe the old S&C staff, led by a chubby guy that reminded me of a guy i used to know at my local gym. It was 1989, he wore a weight belt, used chalk for his hands and always asked for a spot. Meathead approach. Again, what i love about this staff is they train by position together. Duh, makes tons of sense , right?

 

[money3189]

We're going from meathead to master. I'm not at all surprised that S&C is getting upgraded. Everything is getting upgraded.

Remember Shafer's first game - against Penn State? I do - everything had noticeably degraded from the end of Marrone's last year - particularly on offense. There was a complete regression.

I expect to see the exact opposite when they take the field against Colgate. We have a real program again - with a professional at the helm. He has a plan - he's abundantly clear about it - and he's going to deliver (I hope). There's very little ambiguity now.

With Shafer? I never really knew where things were headed - on both sides of the ball. (Case in point the Georgia Tech debacle.) The offense never had an identity and the defense at times was a complete sieve. He was more of a friendly uncle than a leader - same feeling I got from GROB. I get the sense from Babers that he's more like Marrone, and hopefully a step (or 3) above Marrone.

Very excited. Season can't get here soon enough.

Loved that last paragraph. Babers is more like Marrone. The difference is Babers offensive mind is more geared to excel at the college game. Untraditional way of attacking and keeping defenses on their heels.

 

[bcubs9497]

Funny you say that Cubs I was thinking Steven can play some D end too. He's down to 280 and he moves well.

He probably could.

bcubs9497 This is good film on Ward's D line play. Not sure if you seen it already. Taylor Royster #33 . Zach Colvin #92. 2015 film. These two were very productive. This might give us an idea of how Steven and Chris will be used.

Zach Colvin BGSU 2015 Highlights

Money

Those two look really aggressive. Definitely in attack mode at all times. Our DL last year seemed to be playing much more cautiously. More of a "hold the line" or "plug the gap" containment strategy.

 

[sufandu]

But the opposing argument to that is that Freeney is an athletic freak with rare physical attributes who might ultimately prove to be a HOF'er. No matter who he trained with, he'd still be a rare specimen. He's just comfortable with Hicks.

Sure, that's possible, but we saw conditioning improve under Marrone too and the only time our guys looked gassed under him was when our numbers were low. I was pretty much making two points in that post. 1. It's common for practitioners to be behind the latest research. 2. There isn't one perfect way to do strength and conditioning.

 

[RF2044]

Sure, that's possible, but we saw conditioning improve under Marrone too and the only time our guys looked gassed under him was when our numbers were low. I was pretty much making two points in that post. 1. It's common for practitioners to be behind the latest research. 2. There isn't one perfect way to do strength and conditioning.

While those two things might be true, it still doesn't make Hicks a good S&C guy.

We have a few examples of exceptional athletes praising him, and numerous examples of less-than-elite athletes not maximizing their performance under his tutelage.

I'm not trying to villainize him, I just don't think that he was very good at his job. For a variety of contextual reasons, not just the two you specified.

 

[TheCusian]

While those two things might be true, it still doesn't make Hicks a good S&C guy. We have a few examples of exceptional athletes praising him, and numerous examples of less-than-elite athletes not maximizing their performance under his tutelage. I'm not trying to villainize him, I just don't think that he was very good at his job. For a variety of contextual reasons, not just the two you specified.

I don't even need to think he was bad at his job - just believe the new guy is better and that it's tied to the specific system and plan that Babers has in mind.

 

[money3189]

I don't even need to think he was bad at his job - just believe the new guy is better and that it's tied to the specific system and plan that Babers has in mind.

Good post. Thats all that matters now.

 

[RF2044]

I don't even need to think he was bad at his job - just believe the new guy is better and that it's tied to the specific system and plan that Babers has in mind.

Well, S&C is a potential competitive advantage, which we failed to capitalize on most years. I don't "need" to think he was bad at his job, we all saw the evidence on Saturdays. We also saw how injury prone the team has been in recent years.

Glad we went in a different direction.

 

[TheCusian]

Well, S&C is a potential competitive advantage, which we failed to capitalize on most years. I don't "need" to think he was bad at his job, we all saw the evidence on Saturdays. We also saw how injury prone the team has been in recent years. Glad we went in a different direction.

Sure. But we've dissected the problem of losing enough to know that it's not just one thing. I think it's good that were trying a more integrated approach with a guy who is trying new things. And I think it's best to give the new HC full say.

I don't know what percentage of the problem was Hicks. But it doesn't matter now anyways.

 

[RF2044]

Sure. But we've dissected the problem of losing enough to know that it's not just one thing. I think it's good that were trying a more integrated approach with a guy who is trying new things. And I think it's best to give the new HC full say.

I don't know what percentage of the problem was Hicks. But it doesn't matter now anyways.

Who said that it was only one thing? But S&C issues did contribute to subpar performance.

Which is why going in another direction is a good thing for the program.

 

[Cootface]

Who said that it was only one thing? But S&C issues did contribute to subpar performance. Which is why going in another direction is a good thing for the program.

As much as I hate to say it, I wonder if this was the second thing that we can thank coyle for (the first being Dino himself)? As much as I love the hire, a guy like wildhack with deep su roots might be more swayed by football alumni to keep hicks around whereas coyle could be more objective and tell Dino to "bring whoever you want." Another blessing it seems...

 

[TheCusian]

Who said that it was only one thing? But S&C issues did contribute to subpar performance. Which is why going in another direction is a good thing for the program.

Agreed. Just thought you were being a little to definitive with a thing that is hard to quantify - especially when the metrics used to keep track of this kind of thing were pointing in the right direction.

That said, I think the numbers can lie when it comes to S&C - guys can bench a giant number and have no flexibility, etc.

I think we agree that change is good .