Dome Renovation

[orangecuse]

Keeping that building active during construction is an ambulance chaser's dream. There is no sense to taking on that risk! Even with the Dome closed during construction, there is still a lot of circulation by students around the Dome to dorms, dining halls, and academic buildings. The risk is enormous, and only made worse trying to add 30,000 people to the mix. Take a look at the crane collapse video I put up. Imagine that happens here on a Wednesday. There is no game in the Dome for the rest of the season. Imagine something similar happens on a Saturday (yes I know they would not be moving large pieces of structure into place on game day, but you don't take huge apparatus like that completely down every night). The school is in expensive lawsuits until 2040. Even a simple "I dropped my knife" or "we were welding" represents opportunity for existing roof tears.

I agree about not taking on that kind of risk. Actually, I would question what insurance carrier would take on even underwriting such a thing in that scenario. NYS labor law is also notorious when it involves injury from heights under 240 & 241 of it, where absolute liability applies...it would hold the injured party free from any culpability if it were from a height, even if culpable.

Undoubtedly, SU will have iron clad hold-harmless/indemnity agreements as well as likely being named as 'additional named insureds' on its contracts that'll exist with the general contractor and/or construction manager. As long as SU is 'passive' in the project's scope having no 'active' involvement, etc. where they're instructing, advising, directing, etc. whom they hired, their exposure should be minimal/nil if anything catastrophic were to happen as they would have the duty to defend/indemnify under the aforementioned contracts. The duty to defend is greater than the duty to indemnify, so legal fees in regards to defending such a catastrophe could still be substantial, even with very limited actual liability.

Where SU's exposure is likely the greatest is the premises exposure. Slip & fall, construction debris, etc., although, a lot of that exposure can get passed along to the contractor/cm in charge of the site who has the responsibility to keep areas barricaded off, signage, clean, etc. Most of those type injuries shouldn't be anything catastrophic in nature, but rather mainly minimal.

 

[SUFan44]

You cant have active cranes moving steel with civilians below. The cost for a GC to take on that liability will blow the budget. As much as I hate to say this, a new dome somewhere on South is probably making more sense.

Ever been to NYC?

If they secure the perimeter (tough to do, but possible), why can't they have cranes moving steel?

As long as it's "on-campus" and a viable plan for the Dome is part of the campus master plan (giant research center?), I'm all ears on this. I Don't expect it to happen b/c of the cost of re-building from scratch ... supposedly $500M at least, and SU has previously said it would require public funding and isn't an option.

A new bubble and some improvements to the lighting and sound systems would cost the school about $25 million. The school priced a brand-new off-campus arena at hundreds of millions, deeming the expense too costly without public support, Syverud said in February 2015.

If this remains true, SU's facing Scylla and Charybdis: 1) too expensive to build new without massive state support and concurrent loss of control and off-campus siting; or 2) gut the Dome and eat construction dust for 2-3 years while FB and BB become vagabonds.

I'm not sure a new bubble is really a viable option. It's only a band-aid that will temporarily put off the inevitable. The companies that created these structures for past buildings are either non-existent or have moved on to other technologies. The bubble is obsolete.

It certainly is the cheapest option, but I don't think it's on the table (at least from an outsider that has read the teal leaves and has no inside knowledge's perspective).

 

[CuseLegacy]

Looks like Honeywell is going to gobble up United Technologies. So The Honeywell Dome?

 

[reedny]

Ever been to NYC?

If they secure the perimeter (tough to do, but possible), why can't they have cranes moving steel?



I'm not sure a new bubble is really a viable option. It's only a band-aid that will temporarily put off the inevitable. The companies that created these structures for past buildings are either non-existent or have moved on to other technologies. The bubble is obsolete.

It certainly is the cheapest option, but I don't think it's on the table (at least from an outsider that has read the teal leaves and has no inside knowledge's perspective).

Oh, I agree. The new bubble's out, as explained in that same article I linked. It's old technology .. too risky in the upstate weather, etc..

That's why I've been posting that the school's facing some pain even if they opt for a building re-do -- including a fixed roof. There's major disruption and significant cost, which is why the University has hired some of the best available designers and planners. I have a feeling an announcement isn't too far off because of the time-line.

 

[reedny]

Based on what we are hearing, at least at this point, that a structure will be built over the Dome and around the Dome.

If that is true, just for argument's sake, I bought naming rights in perpetuity to a building. The building owner after 30 years decides he/she is going to completely build a new building over the original structure forever changing it inside and out. I would be very nervous about my naming rights deal and whether it still would hold up because the building is now completely different.

My guess would be that if they execute a completely covered solution and only use the seating of the Dome and Field areas and everything else is new...The Carrier Name will no longer be the name of the NEW Wegmans Athletic Complex at Syracuse University with Seating and AC by Carrier or some such nonsense that The U can use to generate some funds.

And there won't even be a "dome" (fixed roof almost fore sure). It's going to be a gut-job .. IMHO.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Looks like Honeywell is going to gobble up United Technologies. So The Honeywell Dome?

The Honey Pot?

 

[CuseLegacy]

The Honey Pot?

As long as it isn't the Honey Wagon.

 

[reedny]

The Honey Pot?

I like Lockheed Loudhouse.

 

[PAcuse]

Looks like Honeywell is going to gobble up United Technologies. So The Honeywell Dome?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-unitedtech-m-a-honeywell-idUSKCN0VV22V

Would be a merger and CNBC thinks United Technologies management would be in charge, last year. Now it looks like Honeywell wants to be in charge. No sure how I feel about this as I do IT work for Honeywell. Could lead to a ton of work or no work :bang:

 

[NJCuse97]

As long as it isn't the Honey Wagon.

Orange Blossom Honey Hive? We'd be the Killer Bees

 

[NJCuse97]

I agree about not taking on that kind of risk. Actually, I would question what insurance carrier would take on even underwriting such a thing in that scenario. NYS labor law is also notorious when it involves injury from heights under 240 & 241 of it, where absolute liability applies...it would hold the injured party free from any culpability if it were from a height, even if culpable.

Undoubtedly, SU will have iron clad hold-harmless/indemnity agreements as well as likely being named as 'additional named insureds' on its contracts that'll exist with the general contractor and/or construction manager. As long as SU is 'passive' in the project's scope having no 'active' involvement, etc. where they're instructing, advising, directing, etc. whom they hired, their exposure should be minimal/nil if anything catastrophic were to happen as they would have the duty to defend/indemnify under the aforementioned contracts. The duty to defend is greater than the duty to indemnify, so legal fees in regards to defending such a catastrophe could still be substantial, even with very limited actual liability.

Where SU's exposure is likely the greatest is the premises exposure. Slip & fall, construction debris, etc., although, a lot of that exposure can get passed along to the contractor/cm in charge of the site who has the responsibility to keep areas barricaded off, signage, clean, etc. Most of those type injuries shouldn't be anything catastrophic in nature, but rather mainly minimal.

Agree with this, but there is always the tangle of a lean. We may be held harmless, but it can create problems. That said, this is true of all projects, but some of the conditions we're talking about exacerbate or create a heightened potential for this.

 

[reedny]

Orange Blossom Honey Hive? We'd be the Killer Bees

Might be a little much having Killer Bees right down the Thruway from "Yellow Jackets" (U of Rochester).

 

[orange79]

Might be a little much having Killer Bees right down the Thruway from "Yellow Jackets" (U of Rochester).

D-III UofR? We'll just pull an NC St and sue them.

 

[reedny]

D-III UofR? We'll just pull an NC St and sue them.

Are we going to sue B-Ville too? And the U/R Acapella group? I mean, there's a pretty dense insect field up here. The U/R sports team nickname dates to pre-WWII (1930). I think we're a little late on that.

http://jackets.org/
https://rocwiki.org/URBee

 

[kcsu]

take it for what it is worth coming from my dad 82 still pretty dialed in. It will be the dome, hard top, connection to Arch. One lost season

 

[orange79]

Are we going to sue B-Ville too? And the U/R Acapella group? I mean, there's a pretty dense insect field up here. The U/R sports team nickname dates to pre-WWII (1930). I think we're a little late on that.

http://jackets.org/
https://rocwiki.org/URBee

It's gonna be tough on rrlbees, but he'll get over it.

 

[cuseguy]

take it for what it is worth coming from my dad 82 still pretty dialed in. It will be the dome, hard top, connection to Arch. One lost season

That's been the plan from the beginning.

 

[kcsu]

That's been the plan from the beginning.

I know

 

[HtownOrange]

The Honey Pot?

Great, now they will want to build a giant bear to sit beside it, wearing a red t-shirt with "POOH" on it. With this direction, we couldn't even get Winnie the Pooh in an Orange shirt!

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Great, now they will want to build a giant bear to sit beside it, wearing a red t-shirt with "POOH" on it. With this direction, we couldn't even get Winnie the Pooh in an Orange shirt!

Oh, bother.

 

[reedny]

Oh, bother.

(Hamlet)

 

[DoubleDee]

Great, now they will want to build a giant bear to sit beside it, wearing a red t-shirt with "POOH" on it. With this direction, we couldn't even get Winnie the Pooh in an Orange shirt!

The Disney Dome?

 

[Woodchuck]

I know

I lost football season? or football and basketball?

 

[Toga]

As long as it's "on-campus" and a viable plan for the Dome is part of the campus master plan (giant research center?), I'm all ears on this. I Don't expect it to happen b/c of the cost of re-building from scratch ... supposedly $500M at least, and SU has previously said it would require public funding and isn't an option.

A new bubble and some improvements to the lighting and sound systems would cost the school about $25 million. The school priced a brand-new off-campus arena at hundreds of millions, deeming the expense too costly without public support, Syverud said in February 2015.

If this remains true, SU's facing Scylla and Charybdis: 1) too expensive to build new without massive state support and concurrent loss of control and off-campus siting; or 2) gut the Dome and eat construction dust for 2-3 years while FB and BB become vagabonds.

Do Scylla and Charybdis sit on planning / zoning?

 

[reedny]

Do Scylla and Charybdis sit on planning / zoning?

Not sure, but I couldn't resist throwing in a little Greek Myth