Five years ago today. An instant classic.

[miamicuse]

it's really something how the people indicting Red halfway through his first season (a relatively successful first half) are the same people anointing the football coach as savior before he's coached a game

On the positive side, not a single poster has said "bring back JB at 80!!!"

 

[orangecuse]

That had a lot to do with it but certainly wasn't the whole problem.

I was being completely sarcastic. It's such a dead horse at this point. FWIW, however, I was one of those folks who never thought/bought in to the sanctions excuse as to being anything close to what the real proximate cause(s) of our fall from grace.

 

[kcsu]

The shot Frank Howard delivered to Tre Jones’s shoulder in the first half to knock him out of the game was probably his clutchest shot in a Syracuse uniform.

Frank had a great punch

 

[FrancoPizza]

it's really something how the people indicting Red halfway through his first season (a relatively successful first half) are the same people anointing the football coach as savior before he's coached a game

If red made a Frantastic splash in the portal this past off-season and there was evidence of a talent influx on the roster I think we’d be a little more patient with the results. Instead he was begging guys like bell to stay when he could’ve asked them to move on.

 

[pearl31]

If red made a Frantastic splash in the portal this past off-season and there was evidence of a talent influx on the roster I think we’d be a little more patient with the results. Instead he was begging guys like bell to stay when he could’ve asked them to move on.

splash in the portal eh? You should look up where Starling and Westry were ranked among portal entries.

Injuries happen or turn out to be worse than initially diagnosed. Players turn out to be head cases. Star players unexpectedly bolt for NIL $$-
Considering all that, it's not a bad 1st year coaching job, esp considering the overall state of the program

 

[SWC75]

I was being completely sarcastic. It's such a dead horse at this point. FWIW, however, I was one of those folks who never thought/bought in to the sanctions excuse as to being anything close to what the real proximate cause(s) of our fall from grace.

Sanctions, (and their walking on eggshell aftermath)
the ACC
The Steph Curry Era
Combo point guards
Recruiting skinny big men to cover the corners.
General recruiting decline: except for Jeremy and maybe OShae, it was G-League talent.
Stale strategies.
Flawed rosters, lacking a balance of skills.
Recruiting his sons was a way overblown complaint: they were good players. We could use them now.

 

[orangecuse]

Sanctions, (and their walking on eggshell aftermath)
the ACC
The Steph Curry Era
Combo point guards
Recruiting skinny big men to cover the corners.
General recruiting decline: except for Jeremy and maybe OShae, it was G-League talent.
Stale strategies.
Flawed rosters, lacking a balance of skills.
Recruiting his sons was a way overblown complaint: they were good players. We could use them now.

As Jay Bilas alluded to shortly after the sanctions came down, he didn't believe that it would have much of an impact as long as SU got the main players they went after and needed the most. Coinciding with JB typically only playing 6 guys meaningful minutes, sometime 7 due to foul trouble, etc.

The scholarship issue was reduced to 3, and as it had been mentioned at the time in those threads, often JB failed to fill all of the available ones anyways and gave some away to walk-ons, etc.

Your last point may be true, however, it also proves just how poor JB's recruiting was along with his roster management. When Buddy was recruited here, many thought he could eventually find a role, perhaps by his junior year, etc. The fact that Buddy was "the guy" by the time his junior season arrives really speaks volumes in regards to the talent level that JB assembled.

JB's continuous and consistent misses on the recruiting trail for our top (main) guys by far (especially at the most critical spot in the game, point guard as well as at the 5 spot) hands down were the proximate causes of what your original post states.

Of course, this is my opinion. One in which I have never teetered from in all of those threads that existed relative to this subject matter.

 

[DilemaCuse]

As Jay Bilas alluded to shortly after the sanctions came down, he didn't believe that it would have much of an impact as long as SU got the main players they went after and needed the most. Coinciding with JB typically only playing 6 guys meaningful minutes, sometime 7 due to foul trouble, etc.

The scholarship issue was reduced to 3, and as it had been mentioned at the time in those threads, often JB failed to fill all of the available ones anyways and gave some away to walk-ons, etc.

Your last point may be true, however, it also proves just how poor JB's recruiting was along with his roster management. When Buddy was recruited here, many thought he could eventually find a role, perhaps by his junior year, etc. The fact that Buddy was "the guy" by the time his junior season arrives really speaks volumes in regards to the talent level that JB assembled.

JB's continuous and consistent misses on the recruiting trail for our top (main) guys by far (especially at the most critical spot in the game, point guard as well as at the 5 spot) hands down were the proximate causes of what your original post states.

Of course, this is my opinion. One in which I have never teetered from in all of those threads that existed relative to this subject matter.

Sophomore year, Buddy was already a starter getting 30-35 mins a game. That's when it dawned on me that this program was in trouble. That and Jalen Carey was a bust after a game and a half.

 

[SWC75]

As Jay Bilas alluded to shortly after the sanctions came down, he didn't believe that it would have much of an impact as long as SU got the main players they went after and needed the most. Coinciding with JB typically only playing 6 guys meaningful minutes, sometime 7 due to foul trouble, etc.

The scholarship issue was reduced to 3, and as it had been mentioned at the time in those threads, often JB failed to fill all of the available ones anyways and gave some away to walk-ons, etc.

Your last point may be true, however, it also proves just how poor JB's recruiting was along with his roster management. When Buddy was recruited here, many thought he could eventually find a role, perhaps by his junior year, etc. The fact that Buddy was "the guy" by the time his junior season arrives really speaks volumes in regards to the talent level that JB assembled.

JB's continuous and consistent misses on the recruiting trail for our top (main) guys by far (especially at the most critical spot in the game, point guard as well as at the 5 spot) hands down were the proximate causes of what your original post states.

Of course, this is my opinion. One in which I have never teetered from in all of those threads that existed relative to this subject matter.

Both our probations were followed by an extended period of reduced recruiting. In the 90's it took us down from from an elite level, alleviated by the fact that Lawrence Moten was a sleeper and John Wallace grew up in Rochester as an SU fan. In the 2010's, it took us from a very good level to fair level, made to seem worse by some unfortunate busts. But, as I acknowledged, it wasn't the only factor.

 

[jncuse]

For nine straight years we've gotten no votes for the Top 25 in the final regular season poll. This is looking like #10. The 2016 FF team wound up #10 on the strength of that, (8 years ago). The 2019 Sweet 16 team was #25. The 2021 Sweet 16 team had the most votes of any team not in the top 25. That's it over the last decade. This is who we are now.

From 1973-2014, we finished in the Top 25 30 times in 42 years, 13 times in the Top10. That's who we were then.

Another disappointing stat sort of working of this…. We have not been in the top 25 of any weekly season poll since the end of 2014… I did some research last year and I believe there was only around 8 power conference teams who had “accomplished” the same.

Also there was over 100 programs overall who have been in a weekly regular season top 25 since our last time.

 

[jncuse]

Talking about winning big games, I’ll continue my Debbie downer trend and note that we have now lost our last 25 q1 games (For 2021, 2022, 2023 the ending NET is used, and for 2024 it is as of now).

It could end tonight. Also that streak swings to being on and off again based on where Oregon is … it might be over at 23 by seasons end.

 

[SWC75]

Talking about winning big games, I’ll continue my Debbie downer trend and note that we have now lost our last 25 q1 games (For 2021, 2022, 2023 the ending NET is used, and for 2024 it is as of now).

It could end tonight. Also that streak swings to being on and off again based on where Oregon is … it might be over at 23 by seasons end.

They were talking about the "quads" on Brian Higgin's 315 show today and I came up with a simpler way of looking at it.

1) Find a rating system that rates all D1 teams from 1-362. This might not be the one to use, (I'm not judging it, just using it to describe my system), but let's use it anyway for the moment:

2023-24 Men's College Basketball School Ratings | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

2023-24 Men's College Basketball Season Summary and More About College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

2) Reverse the numbers and give 362 points for #1, 361 for #2, 1 for #362, etc.

3) If you beat a team, you get that many points. Pitt is #50 in this rating. 362-50 = 312, the amount of points we'd get for beating Pitt. You could freeze the points once you've earned them, (saying that that was the value of beating that team based on how they were regarded at the time we played them), or adjust it each week - and hope that Oregon (362-58 = 304) holds up as the season progresses.

4) The NCAA doesn't like dealing with margin of victory or defeat so I didn't include that.

5) You could add a bonus for winning on a neutral court, (50 points?) and a bigger bonus for winning on the road, (100 points?).

Using that system, Syracuse currently has 2,363 points. Pitt currently has 1,480 points. You don't treat every team in the quad equally. You evaluate each win individually. You don't need the quads.