General thoughts on Bingo and look ahead to Army

[JeremyCuse]

Pretty flummoxed on what to think about Sunday - never though Army could lose to Marist. But should serve as a lesson to never take any opponent for granted. Hope the Orange come in to the game thinking they are playing the Army team that won its first three games by lopsided margins. Have to imagine the Black Knights will spend a lot of time trying to correct their faults from Tuesday.

As for the strategy of inverting, Syracuse can definitely do it, its a matter of will they? Dordvic defiantly inverted briefly against Binghamton (and looked dangerous doing so) and I know Quinn scored a nice goal against Colgate doing the same. Buttermore has experience as well. And of course Curry was playing some attack his freshmen year so its not a foreign concept. But it comes down to the strategy of the coaches, and it probably does us no good to focus on last year. Is this a concept that Princeton used last year? So far this year, I feel like players are pretty interchangeable and you'll see guys pop up all over the field (Scanlan scored some nice goals from the left, Cook operates a lot of time at X and also up top, etc). The good news is SU likes to put a lot of pressure on short sticks, so if inverting is something that works well against Army, they should be in good shape. Part of me also thinks this offense has been holding back a bit, and there will be more sets we haven't seen yet.

I agree with you, the blowout loss almost gives SU more questions then answers. To me the biggest question is one that you kind of outlined about inverting. Does SU try and copy what Marist did knowing it was so successful or do they just play their game as normal assuming that Army will make adjustments. SU can definitely invert but its not really our main thing and while there has been some examples of it as you outlined, its something we do probably maybe once or twice a half by a non attackmen. I would like to think we will incorporate it somewhat in our plan but I don't see March and Desko making wholesale changes.

The other main issue is what kind of Army team shows up Sunday. Conventional wisdom is that Army will either come out on fire and SU will be in a dog fight and potentially even lose or the loss will be in Army's head and SU will be able to jump on top early and its Marist Part 2. I lean toward the former knowing Army and Alberici but its hard for me to remember a game where Army looked so bad against a non Elite or upper Power team. Marist is good but man that was a beatdown and not a great look for an Army team that had decimated its first three opponents.

I thought the Laxfactor guy (listened to the podcast today) made a great point that teams are really trying to take Nichtern out and make other guys beat them. Even though Rutty got smoked Nichtern was 0,3 for the game and was 0,4 against Marist. I suspect whether its Mellen or Kennedy SU is going to try and do the same and make other dudes score. Marist defensively was great save for leaving Silva wide open on the crease for a bunch of looks (had 5 goals) but other then that they pretty much shut them down. I think Cusealum 87 pointed out that Army's other attackmen are good but aren't really dodgers at all. Once is a finisher and the other is more a crease guy, if your slow to slide Army will likely have some trouble if Nichtern isn't getting open looks at will. I also think Marist polled Manown who finished 1,1 and Army's other middies really struggled to dodge. Army had been getting huge numbers out of their mids including 2nd line guys and they were all pretty much blanked save for 1 man up goal. Manown is a smaller guy so Fernandez should match up well speed wise.

Army finally went up against a good guy at the X and they definitely struggled. They also appeared to have major issues on the wings which for Army is very very surprising. Apparently per an IL article Marist players were all fired up because everyone was talking about the Cuse/Army game and thought they were being overlooked which may explain why they were so fired up. I think SU will need to lean on Phaup and get better wing play then we have so far this year. It also appeared Army really struggled with the speed of Marist especially on inverts. Guys like Curry and Dordevic should be dodging all over the place against their matchup even if its from up top ditto Rehfuss and Cook. Marist set themselves up for a least 3 or 4 great looks off of inverts and then passes out up top which is Trimbo and Buttermores games. There is certainly a chance the Army guy stands on his head after yesterday but if we pepper him enough the dam will eventually break.

I fully expect Army to play light years better then they did yesterday because 1. they always play us tough and 2. they are definitely a good team which they showed against Umass and RU. All that said after the Marist game it would be hard to see SU lose this game now and not be a little concerned as Army didn't lose on a last second goal after getting ambushed in mid week game early they got absolutely pounded.

 

[SDCuse114]

I agree with you, the blowout loss almost gives SU more questions then answers. To me the biggest question is one that you kind of outlined about inverting. Does SU try and copy what Marist did knowing it was so successful or do they just play their game as normal assuming that Army will make adjustments. SU can definitely invert but its not really our main thing and while there has been some examples of it as you outlined, its something we do probably maybe once or twice a half by a non attackmen. I would like to think we will incorporate it somewhat in our plan but I don't see March and Desko making wholesale changes.

The other main issue is what kind of Army team shows up Sunday. Conventional wisdom is that Army will either come out on fire and SU will be in a dog fight and potentially even lose or the loss will be in Army's head and SU will be able to jump on top early and its Marist Part 2. I lean toward the former knowing Army and Alberici but its hard for me to remember a game where Army looked so bad against a non Elite or upper Power team. Marist is good but man that was a beatdown and not a great look for an Army team that had decimated its first three opponents.

I thought the Laxfactor guy (listened to the podcast today) made a great point that teams are really trying to take Nichtern out and make other guys beat them. Even though Rutty got smoked Nichtern was 0,3 for the game and was 0,4 against Marist. I suspect whether its Mellen or Kennedy SU is going to try and do the same and make other dudes score. Marist defensively was great save for leaving Silva wide open on the crease for a bunch of looks (had 5 goals) but other then that they pretty much shut them down. I think Cusealum 87 pointed out that Army's other attackmen are good but aren't really dodgers at all. Once is a finisher and the other is more a crease guy, if your slow to slide Army will likely have some trouble if Nichtern isn't getting open looks at will. I also think Marist polled Manown who finished 1,1 and Army's other middies really struggled to dodge. Army had been getting huge numbers out of their mids including 2nd line guys and they were all pretty much blanked save for 1 man up goal. Manown is a smaller guy so Fernandez should match up well speed wise.

Army finally went up against a good guy at the X and they definitely struggled. They also appeared to have major issues on the wings which for Army is very very surprising. Apparently per an IL article Marist players were all fired up because everyone was talking about the Cuse/Army game and thought they were being overlooked which may explain why they were so fired up. I think SU will need to lean on Phaup and get better wing play then we have so far this year. It also appeared Army really struggled with the speed of Marist especially on inverts. Guys like Curry and Dordevic should be dodging all over the place against their matchup even if its from up top ditto Rehfuss and Cook. Marist set themselves up for a least 3 or 4 great looks off of inverts and then passes out up top which is Trimbo and Buttermores games. There is certainly a chance the Army guy stands on his head after yesterday but if we pepper him enough the dam will eventually break.

I fully expect Army to play light years better then they did yesterday because 1. they always play us tough and 2. they are definitely a good team which they showed against Umass and RU. All that said after the Marist game it would be hard to see SU lose this game now and not be a little concerned as Army didn't lose on a last second goal after getting ambushed in mid week game early they got absolutely pounded.

I think Marist is just a really good team that Army overlooked. Their only loss was down in Richmond to a Spiders team that lost to the Terps in OT. They were toe to toe with UR for most of the game. Looking at the rest of their schedule, if they win at Bucknell, I can see them running the table and winning the MAAC.

 

[Whitey23]

Overlooked and Upset, Marist Makes Big Splash

(Photo Courtesy of Marist Athletics) Senior Joe Tierney spoke to his Marist teammates in the locker room after last Friday’s loss

www.insidelacrosse.com

 

[SDCuse114]

Overlooked and Upset, Marist Makes Big Splash

(Photo Courtesy of Marist Athletics) Senior Joe Tierney spoke to his Marist teammates in the locker room after last Friday’s loss

www.insidelacrosse.com

Would hate to face this team in the first round of the tournament.

 

[Powellfan]

 

[CuseAlum87]

I thought the Laxfactor guy (listened to the podcast today) made a great point that teams are really trying to take Nichtern out and make other guys beat them. Even though Rutty got smoked Nichtern was 0,3 for the game and was 0,4 against Marist. I suspect whether its Mellen or Kennedy SU is going to try and do the same and make other dudes score

This. This will be key. I like Kennedy on Nichtern if Mellen isn't 100%. And, if Mellen isn't 100% no need to play him here because of the make up of the Army attack. Nichtern is the only real dodging threat. Put Depietro on the big man Silva and Murphy on O'Brien. O'Brien isn't going to beat the Orange D off the dodge, but he is a very good finisher. The Orange should be slow to slide and make Army prove that they can beat their man consistently. Army is good and well coached but as Marist showed, they have weaknesses that Rutgers and UMASS couldn't exploit.

 

[ivorytower]

Marist was throwing doubles at Nichern but he still shot twelve times instead of quickly swinging to openings though he did hit Silva inside a few times. He can be Teal like with his vision and passing and doing so agaisnt Rutgers made a difference in wider team involvement. On offense not sure if Cuse deviates from their ways much but would assume that practice included some inverts given Army's issues covering. Certainly have the personnel to do same