Gross

[MSOrange]

Thanks. Everyone is different but if I'm 69 years old, a legend, Hall of Famer and have a national title - my ass is retiring so I can kick back and watch my kids play.

I agree. I kind of thought he might have retired already for that reason. But based on that article and other things I have read before, he is not one of the "in the office 24 hours a day" and still finds time to go to his kids games.

 

[Mistakebythelake90]

View attachment 17413

View attachment 17415

Man, it might be time to go troll the WVU forums with pictures of Marvin Graves again.

 

[Jeepers]

Are you serious with this? If so, I respectfully disagree. What makes you think JB is qualified to be an AD in this era of college sports?

Tongue-in-cheek.

 

[bnoro]

I wouldn't be shocked if Gross ended up working at IMG when he leaves SU. It seems right up his alley.

I don't know what that's even supposed to mean. If he leaves SU he'll go to another school and do an excellent job as their AD just like he does for us.

 

[Full_Rebar]

It means I think his strengths would be better utilized in a role with a company like IMG where his big-picture ideas would work better. He hasn't found a better AD job since he arrived in Syracuse, so I don't know what will change when he leaves.

 

[bnoro]

It means I think his strengths would be better utilized in a role with a company like IMG where his big-picture ideas would work better. He hasn't found a better AD job since he arrived in Syracuse, so I don't know what will change when he leaves.

Maybe he likes what he's done here and doesn't want to leave, ever think of that? We've had unprecedented success in all our programs pretty much since he's been here, we're building a new IPF, have done substantial work improving the Dome, and he's raised our brand enough to get us into the ACC.

Or are you one of those people that doesn't like him because he's too "hollywood"?

 

[MadNY3]

People don't know what was really spent for the NYC campaign. Enough with some of this stuff especially as:

* The alumni base and alum power is significant in the 212
* The initiative was kickstarted before the ACC wonderful realities

Further, the fundamental issue to your question surrounds the impact and strategic decision of brand advertising (NYC) versus more direct marketing (surrounding counties/DMAs). I think SU has been questionable at best at layering direct response marketing with fundraising to the point of frustration. Highly capable SU Schools and their Boards (I'm on one) have begged to help only to not be able to do so in a politically charged and relationship protecting atmosphere that envelops Syracuse University.

I am a *big* Gross fan. Would be shocked if the end was soon. Under the new Chancellor who has a more measured approach versus Cantor, Gross swashbuckling approach could be a great tandem, but some things also run his course and TGD has a near decade under his belt that looks pretty damn good overall, but not without some notable warts.

 

[Orangepace]

It means I think his strengths would be better utilized in a role with a company like IMG where his big-picture ideas would work better. He hasn't found a better AD job since he arrived in Syracuse, so I don't know what will change when he leaves.

i thought "the dude" was bad.

 

[Toga]

How can you not like the guy?

 

[retro44]

How can you not like the guy?

When you see a man with two cell phones up against his ears usually means he has the wife on one side and fill in the blank on the other side...who could it be?

 

[chakka3421]

People don't know what was really spent for the NYC campaign. Enough with some of this stuff especially as:

* The alumni base and alum power is significant in the 212
* The initiative was kickstarted before the ACC wonderful realities

Further, the fundamental issue to your question surrounds the impact and strategic decision of brand advertising (NYC) versus more direct marketing (surrounding counties/DMAs). I think SU has been questionable at best at layering direct response marketing with fundraising to the point of frustration. Highly capable SU Schools and their Boards (I'm on one) have begged to help only to not be able to do so in a politically charged and relationship protecting atmosphere that envelops Syracuse University.

I am a *big* Gross fan. Would be shocked if the end was soon. Under the new Chancellor who has a more measured approach versus Cantor, Gross swashbuckling approach could be a great tandem, but some things also run his course and TGD has a near decade under his belt that looks pretty damn good overall, but not without some notable warts.

Only if he welcomes the financial and organizational discipline that Syverud's staff will bring to SUAD. Like I have said all along, this is what has been missing and should have had a strong #2 behind him all along. All I'm doing is watching what is going on right now with the "opening of the books" and the "takeover of the IMG contract negotiations". By the way, it's Syverud's chief financial & his chief communications staffers running the show right now. I just don't know how the good doctor will take the new way of doing things.

Don't get me wrong, from the few times I've been in contact with the good doctor, it's hard not to like him but that doesn't make him a good manager. TGD warts include his lack of organizational (hiring spouse to run marketing with no marketing background - hiring other friends with no background in field of hire) and financial (overpaying Olympic coaching staff at expense to football coaching staff - Melo center still not paid off) discipline. I don't think going forward he is going to be given the same latitude he has had in the past. But saying that, I agree that he is a good front man for SUAD in terms of the NY campaign and setting us up to get into the ACC.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Maybe he likes what he's done here and doesn't want to leave, ever think of that? We've had unprecedented success in all our programs pretty much since he's been here, we're building a new IPF, have done substantial work improving the Dome, and he's raised our brand enough to get us into the ACC.

Or are you one of those people that doesn't like him because he's too "hollywood"?

I have no person issues with DG- have really only spoken with him on a couple of occasions and he was friendly. He's done some things well during his time-court-side seating in the Dome, enhancements to look there as well. I do have major issues with his spending- from non-revenue coaches (this is the biggest) and budgets to staffing (can you say Mr Excitement).

He was allowed nearly free reign by Cantor and instead of being able to build the IPF when it was promised to Marrone during his hiring, it had to wait because of poor spending in these other areas. FB also had to fight to get upgrades to the locker room, lobby, training room, and the meeting rooms/offices are still in need of work. We have all heard how salaries for asst. coaches in football were behind our competitors. We know that the football support staff is smaller than most other schools.

I have issues with how he treated "small-time" donors by removing the small perks they received for their support, issues with the way he treated certain coaches/staff members, as well as his reluctance to suspend/remove individuals from teams after serious incidents. He has put winning ahead of everything else, and that's a major issue.

Now that the IPF is under construction, the interior of Manley is ill-suited for every other team. From multiple people I hear that WBB is bleeding money and playing all their home games in the Dome is a big reason- now there isn't another venue for them. There isn't a suitable practice facility for the track team, which has been the most successful during Gross' tenure (Fox was a great hire), and now the non-revenue weight room is a fenced-in area next to the turf in Manley, which I'm sure is a big hit for recruiting.

We have had "unprecedented success" in how many sports exactly since he arrived? Field Hockey, W. Lacrosse and Softball? I'd bet that those three sports have seen salaries/operating budget double under Gross. I'll wish the guy well in his next career and hope the next AD can show better restraint and utilize resources in areas which will have the greatest impact.

 

[SmilinBob]

It's possible that Gross and Syverud might make the perfect ying and yang for SU.

 

[SUbear]

I see this a lot and I’ve never understood the line of thinking. Why does the University owe the fans anything and why do the fans owe the University anything? I bleed Orange and I buy my tickets and my merchandise because of my love for Cuse sports, but I don’t need to feel appreciated. I do it cause I love it. They don’t owe me anything.

They need to produce an acceptably competitive and relatively successful product on the field. When they did that attendance was pretty darn good. It was only when they put out a crappy football team, that not only could not win but played poor football fundamentally, that attendance plummeted. If you can ot understand that I do not know what to say to you.

 

[SUbear]

Apparently people won't park at Skytop and take a 5 minute shuttle ride, but they're going to ride a bus 3-4 hours round trip?

I parked at Skytop once and would not care to again except under dire necessity, the bus service was crappy, maybe because it is done by Centro. Charter buses in my experience are better, no standing in lines and no standing in transit.

 

[HtownOrange]

I think many people are looking at this from one point or the other when there really is a good shot at a happy medium. DG has had to increase spending to attain the improved teams. The revenue has increased significantly. DG's overall management has been good, though he has some issues.

Syverud has determined to trim fat and place SU on a strong financial footing without invading the endowment. This is wise long term. Now he is looking at the AD and there is fat, we know this so clearly Syverud does, too. The two can work together and with the increased revenues, the fat can be trimmed while paying more to the bread winning sports and keeping the Olympic sports competitive.

As to DG being able to find work, the top jobs don't come open often but as soon as one does, he is on the short list. He has done wonders with a private school in a weak league (Big East, low income) and has made every sport respectable. He has increased revenues (even before the ACC windfall). Basically, any top program would have to include him on a short list of AD candidates.

Syverud should know this and I would assume he is not a fool, I will not credit him as such unless he proves otherwise. Trimming excessive staffers from all departments is good for all organizations from time to time.

As an outsider with no inside info but what this board posts, I think DG is on solid footing but may have to yield in streamlining staff. Overall, his leadership has been very good and I would be happy to have him stay. When one considers good work, the increased revenues and the success, cutting out useless (not that the people didn't work, just doing work that can be done by others) positions really may not be that big of a deal. Syverud would be foolish to chase DG away, chances are that a big time big state U will make a play for him once they have an opening so he may be gone anyway. If not, Syracuse has a great AD.

Just my two cents.

 

[Orangepace]

I think many people are looking at this from one point or the other when there really is a good shot at a happy medium. DG has had to increase spending to attain the improved teams. The revenue has increased significantly. DG's overall management has been good, though he has some issues.

Syverud has determined to trim fat and place SU on a strong financial footing without invading the endowment. This is wise long term. Now he is looking at the AD and there is fat, we know this so clearly Syverud does, too. The two can work together and with the increased revenues, the fat can be trimmed while paying more to the bread winning sports and keeping the Olympic sports competitive.

As to DG being able to find work, the top jobs don't come open often but as soon as one does, he is on the short list. He has done wonders with a private school in a weak league (Big East, low income) and has made every sport respectable. He has increased revenues (even before the ACC windfall). Basically, any top program would have to include him on a short list of AD candidates.

Syverud should know this and I would assume he is not a fool, I will not credit him as such unless he proves otherwise. Trimming excessive staffers from all departments is good for all organizations from time to time.

As an outsider with no inside info but what this board posts, I think DG is on solid footing but may have to yield in streamlining staff. Overall, his leadership has been very good and I would be happy to have him stay. When one considers good work, the increased revenues and the success, cutting out useless (not that the people didn't work, just doing work that can be done by others) positions really may not be that big of a deal. Syverud would be foolish to chase DG away, chances are that a big time big state U will make a play for him once they have an opening so he may be gone anyway. If not, Syracuse has a great AD.

Just my two cents.

Well said. I think the first thing Gross should be doing is lobbying for a new contract. I believe some of the insiders indicated in previous discussions that his contract with the school required him to elevate the profile of SU athletics as a whole, hence the focus of Gross on the CapitalOne Cup standings. He did just that. Revise the contract to focus on goals that Syverud has related to cost conscious spending and I think we see Gross approach change.

 

[HtownOrange]

Well said. I think the first thing Gross should be doing is lobbying for a new contract. I believe some of the insiders indicated in previous discussions that his contract with the school required him to elevate the profile of SU athletics as a whole, hence the focus of Gross on the CapitalOne Cup standings. He did just that. Revise the contract to focus on goals that Syverud has related to cost conscious spending and I think we see Gross approach change.

That's part of what I am thinking. The two get together, Syverud puts his cards on the table (cutting costs, run efficiently and in the black), while Gross puts his cards on the table (overall performance increase, revenues increase, the money sports carrying the load) and the two set new goals and create a new plan of attack.

 

[omniorange]

It's certainly a possibility. Problem is that the new Chancellor is bent on cutting costs and making people be held accountable for their spending. I think that's the bent that won't sit well with the good doctor as he had complete control over spending ergo our issues with overpriced Olympic sports programs at the expense of football salaries - the sport that ultimately got us into the ACC. Plus I just don't get what else is left for him to do here to keep him here long term anyway.

And Gross did not break the IMG contract - he would be foolish to do that especially since he recently renewed it and if he ever went to a different University where IMG is already established - you just don't burn bridges like that especially with a company like IMG (one of the largest, if not the largest). Syverud cut the contract and has taken over the negotiations going forward (actually I think it's one of his deputies who led the charge due to his in with another but much smaller sports marketing company). Syverud's future success has nothing to do with a sports marketing company whereas Gross has to step carefully here.

Not sure what you trying to say with the above. Are you truly saying that Syverud has his own hand-picked people working on this bypassing Gross? What connection does Lou Marcoccia have in this process, if any?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[billsin01]

Even if you improved marketing of the football program locally and kept the season ticket prices low (they are dirt cheap. Dont care how much you earn), the average cny fan is skeptical and crabby. I wish the dome was closer to nyc...the attendance wouldnt be so damn pitiful. its almost like the average cny fan wants to see a trip to the national championship game before supporting the team. Just my 2 cents.

I haven't gone through this whole thread -- and I would certainly suggest tat it would be hard to argue that the SU fan base (for football) is particularly great. Attendance is always an issue and the atmosphere in the dome is often dull.

But I'll defend CNY fans like this: It's really hard -- especially if you're working 40+ hours inside each week and have kids -- to get fired up about going up to the hill for a football game on one of the last great weather weekends you'll have in the next six months. Sit inside in a stuffy dome for 4 hours watching a team with little chance of doing anything noteworthy or do an outdoor activity in October before you're locked in your house for the next six months?

Believe me, I'm not trying to start a huge debate on the dome or the quality of fans or any of that. I"m simply stating that the Fall is beautiful in CNY and the team -- the struggles of the past decade or so aside -- is facing an uphill climb every year given the power structure of the sport and economics of all of it.

I don't think it's a shock that hoops can get 20K to the dome for Colgate when it's 38 and sleeting in December but the football team struggles to hit 40K for really good opponents on nice days in the fall. Just my two cents.

 

[billsin01]

I'm not a local so I'm not in a position to argue with you on some of these points. But I will say that it's not like things like parking, marketing, etc. are magically better for SU hoops, and yet CNY packs the Dome for those games.

I really, really, really think people greatly over-analyze our football attendance. Last year we averaged 38K for six games at the Dome. In 1995, my first year as a season ticket holder, we averaged 43K. And we were a much better program in 1995.

We're talking about needing to get a few thousand more people per game back to get to a place where we were all much more comfortable with our attendance. This is not some kind of crazy, Herculean task. Have some compelling skill position players, win some games, and we'll be OK.

And create some cool tailgating atmosphere. I'd add that to skill players and wins. I'd also suggest that trying to keep people engaged in the winter/spring/summer is a challenge. Building prison walls around spring practice, putting on a booooorrrring spring game, serving slimy turkey sandwiches on stale kaiser rolls to a few boosters and calling it a signing day 'event' ... those things don't exactly draw in the casual fan.

 

[billsin01]

Well said. I think the first thing Gross should be doing is lobbying for a new contract. I believe some of the insiders indicated in previous discussions that his contract with the school required him to elevate the profile of SU athletics as a whole, hence the focus of Gross on the CapitalOne Cup standings. He did just that. Revise the contract to focus on goals that Syverud has related to cost conscious spending and I think we see Gross approach change.

My concern is that there is absolutely no room for schools to operate in a cost-conscious way AND compete at a high level in the big-time sports. I know that it's certainly ideal to make sure that the way you're spending your money is yielding the best results (on the field, in recruiting, in media attention, etc.) but I'm pretty sure that the best athletic departments at the most successful schools will be spending frivolously for a long, long time. I mean, take the Melo Center and the Dome -- it's no surprise that we've experienced golden ages of success in the two eras dominated first by the Dome (late 80s) and then by the addition of the Melo Center (whenever it opened, I'm too lazy to actually do work and look it up, but the past five years or so).

You look at the teams in between those eras and even with an extremely high profile program and hall-of-fame caliber head coach -- we were really good, but not quite as good or quite as talented as the past five seasons or so.

So we built an expensive, pointless dedicated practice facility (pointless in the sense that there was no particular need for a dedicated basketball facility -- hoops is popular in the inner city in large part due to the fact that you need only shoes, a ball and a hoop) and then reaped significant rewards for it.

 

[rrlbees]

My concern is that there is absolutely no room for schools to operate in a cost-conscious way AND compete at a high level in the big-time sports. I know that it's certainly ideal to make sure that the way you're spending your money is yielding the best results (on the field, in recruiting, in media attention, etc.) but I'm pretty sure that the best athletic departments at the most successful schools will be spending frivolously for a long, long time. I mean, take the Melo Center and the Dome -- it's no surprise that we've experienced golden ages of success in the two eras dominated first by the Dome (late 80s) and then by the addition of the Melo Center (whenever it opened, I'm too lazy to actually do work and look it up, but the past five years or so). You look at the teams in between those eras and even with an extremely high profile program and hall-of-fame caliber head coach -- we were really good, but not quite as good or quite as talented as the past five seasons or so. So we built an expensive, pointless dedicated practice facility (pointless in the sense that there was no particular need for a dedicated basketball facility -- hoops is popular in the inner city in large part due to the fact that you need only shoes, a ball and a hoop) and then reaped significant rewards for it.

I like Gross and think he has done many good things, but that's from a fans perspective. From a business perspective, I think his world is going to change if he's going to stay. Every department is going to need to be a net positive and the University a net positive. We aren't a state school that can just ask the state for more money when we have a shortfall. Also, we didn't build the Melo Center. I know we are still short of it having been fully funded but it was built by donations as I'm sure you know.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm an SU alum who lives in NYC and I do enjoy the increased presence...the ads at Yankee Stadium, on taxi cabs, etc. Makes me feel closer than 4 hours away. I run into SU fans all the time through work, social events and just on the streets wearing SU gear. It does feel like a community within the city.

Would I tune into every game regardless? Yes. Is it frivolous spending? I have no idea. Maybe it would be smarter to focus more energy on the areas you've mentioned. If it helps attendance I'd be all for it. But I don't agree with the idea that our NYC push has been a waste of resources. Just my 2 cents.

I was down in NYC during the NCAA tournament and was wearing my Orange insulated hoodie and was getting stopped in the street by strangers (while with my wife and family, on our way to someplace) to chat us up about the Orange and their chances in the tournament.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Apparently people won't park at Skytop and take a 5 minute shuttle ride, but they're going to ride a bus 3-4 hours round trip?

If a shuttle bus only took 5 minutes from Skytop, it wouldn't be on game day. Colvin St. is only 2 lanes. Big bottleneck. It takes a half hour, easy. To walk it is about 1.5 miles, which is a little far for some people.