Hey Guys! Purdue fan back again! | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Hey Guys! Purdue fan back again!

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jgeorge322 said:
now hes your starter. the guy had 50% less carries than the other guy. is he your lead back or your starter?
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It was our lead back and our starter.

By lead back - I mean our most reliable back and guy who was leaned on the most. He did start as well. I'm not flip-flopping here. Tracy was our best RB, just didn't get as many carries as Mockobee. Mock was actually benched midway through the year for a bit because he had like 9 fumbles lol.

EDIT: Tracy was also injured this year and missed games too. That's a little of the reason he had less carries.
 
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IthacaBarrel said:
he's been here 10 days, come on
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So I’m not allowed to question the most important positions in the game? Most p5 teams are figuring out their QBs for next year right about now through portal and we have only heard rumblings about McCord and then the UB transfer (whom I think we all can agree is a backup)
 
So were the struggles at Purdue talent related or coaching related if we are to call them struggles? I don't see any Purdue OLs in the NFL for instance.

Also he coached there for 6 years.. they made a bowl game 4 of those years and then the Ville offensive staff he was on was pretty darn good this past year.

Prior to 2017 it was a rough 10 year stretch for Purdue football not all that far off from Dinos tenure here and maybe even worse.

So it's an interesting take that he sucks. Not jumping for joy with the hire and looking mostly surface level but he's familiar with winning football at a program that had many a year without prior to him joining.
 
Orangezoo said:
So were the struggles at Purdue talent related or coaching related if we are to call them struggles? I don't see any Purdue OLs in the NFL for instance.

Also he coached there for 6 years.. they made a bowl game 4 of those years and then the Ville offensive staff he was on was pretty darn good this past year.

Prior to 2017 it was a rough 10 year stretch for Purdue football not all that far off from Dinos tenure here and maybe even worse.

So it's an interesting take that he sucks. Not jumping for joy with the hire and looking mostly surface level but he's familiar with winning football at a program that had many a year without prior to him joining.
Expand...
Year by year of Dale Williams

Year 1: 447 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 12 TD
Year 2: 400 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD
Year 3: 342 rushes, 2.9 YPC, 9 TD
Year 4: 150 rushes, 3.3 YPC, 4 TD (COVID, 6 games)
Year 5: 392 rushes, 2.8 YPC, 7 TD
Year 6: 466 rushes, 3.6 YPC, 17 TD

Year after Dale: 462 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD (2 300+ yard games)

Year 1/2 was solid running the ball. What happened going into Year 3?

Well, Year 2 saw an OL of a senior, senior, 5th year, grad, and junior be the starting OL all year long so I'd expect that line be pretty solid.

In Year 3/4/5 when it should be a fully Dale OL...it was terrible.

In Year 6, it was better but Purdue's RB room was very good in space. Average yards before contact was just 1.7 yards.

First year Post Dale: Purdue started 8 different offensive lines. They started two NAIA transfers and their two tackles suffered season ending injuries...and still had the best rushing year in the past seven years.

I think that is proof...even more so that Dale didn't become the OL coach at Louisville when Brohm left. He was an analyst who just helped a little with the OL.

I also understand that you guys are looking at the Louisville rushing attack and think that it was really good. It was - but it was well below where they have been recently.

2023: 488 rushes, 4.7 YPC, 27 TD
2022: 519 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 25 TD
2021: 504 rushes, 5.4 YPC, 29 TD
2020: 420 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 20 TD (COVID year)

So - Louisville's rushing attack was the worst it's been in almost four years. Definitely in terms of YPC.
 
Orangezoo said:
So were the struggles at Purdue talent related or coaching related if we are to call them struggles? I don't see any Purdue OLs in the NFL for instance.

Also he coached there for 6 years.. they made a bowl game 4 of those years and then the Ville offensive staff he was on was pretty darn good this past year.

Prior to 2017 it was a rough 10 year stretch for Purdue football not all that far off from Dinos tenure here and maybe even worse.

So it's an interesting take that he sucks. Not jumping for joy with the hire and looking mostly surface level but he's familiar with winning football at a program that had many a year without prior to him joining.
Expand...
Both. Dale couldn't recruit OL because the rumor was that no one wanted to play for him. That's why Purdue has had to rebuild the OL the last two years with transfers. Heck, there was so little depth last season built up that Purdue started two NAIA transfers this year.

Some of the last OL recruits Dale had are in the portal now because the current OL coach is pushing them out...one committed to South Alabama. None of the others have any P5 offers. UTEP, UAB, East Carolina, etc.
 
BabaYaga said:
Year by year of Dale Williams

Year 1: 447 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 12 TD
Year 2: 400 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD
Year 3: 342 rushes, 2.9 YPC, 9 TD
Year 4: 150 rushes, 3.3 YPC, 4 TD (COVID, 6 games)
Year 5: 392 rushes, 2.8 YPC, 7 TD
Year 6: 466 rushes, 3.6 YPC, 17 TD

Year after Dale: 462 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD (2 300+ yard games)

Year 1/2 was solid running the ball. What happened going into Year 3?

Well, Year 2 saw an OL of a senior, senior, 5th year, grad, and junior be the starting OL all year long so I'd expect that line be pretty solid.

In Year 3/4/5 when it should be a fully Dale OL...it was terrible.

In Year 6, it was better but Purdue's RB room was very good in space. Average yards before contact was just 1.7 yards.

First year Post Dale: Purdue started 8 different offensive lines. They started two NAIA transfers and their two tackles suffered season ending injuries...and still had the best rushing year in the past seven years.

I think that is proof...even more so that Dale didn't become the OL coach at Louisville when Brohm left. He was an analyst who just helped a little with the OL.

I also understand that you guys are looking at the Louisville rushing attack and think that it was really good. It was - but it was well below where they have been recently.

2023: 488 rushes, 4.7 YPC, 27 TD
2022: 519 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 25 TD
2021: 504 rushes, 5.4 YPC, 29 TD
2020: 420 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 20 TD (COVID year)

So - Louisville's rushing attack was the worst it's been in almost four years. Definitely in terms of YPC.
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To be fair Louisville had a running QB the prior years. That makes a big difference.

As for Purdue you all rushed the ball less after those 1st two years. How much of that had to do with a shift to being a more pass first team?
 
BabaYaga said:
Both. Dale couldn't recruit OL because the rumor was that no one wanted to play for him. That's why Purdue has had to rebuild the OL the last two years with transfers. Heck, there was so little depth last season built up that Purdue started two NAIA transfers this year.

Some of the last OL recruits Dale had are in the portal now because the current OL coach is pushing them out...one committed to South Alabama. None of the others have any P5 offers. UTEP, UAB, East Carolina, etc.
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Appreciate the breakdown. It's hard to analyze given he was with a winning program/staff that was a losing program before but certainly the question marks are fair. He's joining a staff with powerhouse recruiters including the HC.

Yall ran the ball better this past year.. and also were not a good team. Your running game didn't translate to helping in the w/l dept.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
As for Purdue you all rushed the ball less after those 1st two years. How much of that had to do with a shift to being a more pass first team?
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I don’t think it was as much of that as just not being able to run the ball, so they threw it more. Going back to Brohm at WKU - they were balanced.

2017 - 491 passing attempts, 447 rushes, 4.4 YPC
2018 - 509 passing attempts, 409 rushes, 4.4 YPC
2019 - 520 passing attempts, 342 rushes, 2.9 YPC
2020 - 261 passing attempts, 150 rushes, 3.0 YPC
2021 - 596 passing attempts, 392 rushes, 2.8 YPC
2022 - 583 passing attempts, 466 rushes, 3.6 YPC

As you can see, when the YPC was good they would run it. When it was bad, they wouldn’t. In 2022 it got better - so they ran more.

There were times in 2021/22 where they would throw it on 3rd and 1 because they couldn’t pick up a two yard gain.
 
BabaYaga said:
Year by year of Dale Williams

Year 1: 447 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 12 TD
Year 2: 400 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD
Year 3: 342 rushes, 2.9 YPC, 9 TD
Year 4: 150 rushes, 3.3 YPC, 4 TD (COVID, 6 games)
Year 5: 392 rushes, 2.8 YPC, 7 TD
Year 6: 466 rushes, 3.6 YPC, 17 TD

Year after Dale: 462 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD (2 300+ yard games)

Year 1/2 was solid running the ball. What happened going into Year 3?

Well, Year 2 saw an OL of a senior, senior, 5th year, grad, and junior be the starting OL all year long so I'd expect that line be pretty solid.

In Year 3/4/5 when it should be a fully Dale OL...it was terrible.

In Year 6, it was better but Purdue's RB room was very good in space. Average yards before contact was just 1.7 yards.

First year Post Dale: Purdue started 8 different offensive lines. They started two NAIA transfers and their two tackles suffered season ending injuries...and still had the best rushing year in the past seven years.

I think that is proof...even more so that Dale didn't become the OL coach at Louisville when Brohm left. He was an analyst who just helped a little with the OL.

I also understand that you guys are looking at the Louisville rushing attack and think that it was really good. It was - but it was well below where they have been recently.

2023: 488 rushes, 4.7 YPC, 27 TD
2022: 519 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 25 TD
2021: 504 rushes, 5.4 YPC, 29 TD
2020: 420 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 20 TD (COVID year)

So - Louisville's rushing attack was the worst it's been in almost four years. Definitely in terms of YPC.
Expand...

Obviously a drop off in talent, not necessarily coaching.
 
BabaYaga said:
Year by year of Dale Williams

Year 1: 447 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 12 TD
Year 2: 400 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD
Year 3: 342 rushes, 2.9 YPC, 9 TD
Year 4: 150 rushes, 3.3 YPC, 4 TD (COVID, 6 games)
Year 5: 392 rushes, 2.8 YPC, 7 TD
Year 6: 466 rushes, 3.6 YPC, 17 TD

Year after Dale: 462 rushes, 4.4 YPC, 20 TD (2 300+ yard games)

Year 1/2 was solid running the ball. What happened going into Year 3?

Well, Year 2 saw an OL of a senior, senior, 5th year, grad, and junior be the starting OL all year long so I'd expect that line be pretty solid.

In Year 3/4/5 when it should be a fully Dale OL...it was terrible.

In Year 6, it was better but Purdue's RB room was very good in space. Average yards before contact was just 1.7 yards.

First year Post Dale: Purdue started 8 different offensive lines. They started two NAIA transfers and their two tackles suffered season ending injuries...and still had the best rushing year in the past seven years.

I think that is proof...even more so that Dale didn't become the OL coach at Louisville when Brohm left. He was an analyst who just helped a little with the OL.

I also understand that you guys are looking at the Louisville rushing attack and think that it was really good. It was - but it was well below where they have been recently.

2023: 488 rushes, 4.7 YPC, 27 TD
2022: 519 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 25 TD
2021: 504 rushes, 5.4 YPC, 29 TD
2020: 420 rushes, 5.0 YPC, 20 TD (COVID year)

So - Louisville's rushing attack was the worst it's been in almost four years. Definitely in terms of YPC.
Expand...
You do realize that prior to this season Louisville had QBs ranging from Cunningham to Jackson running the ball at gross clips. Something Plummer can not do … this isn’t even valid to use as an argument.
 
wfschrec said:
You do realize that prior to this season Louisville had QBs ranging from Cunningham to Jackson running the ball at gross clips. Something Plummer can not do … this isn’t even valid to use as an argument.
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Sure, but it's not a valid argument anyway because Dale was not the OL coach at Louisville last year.

The Purdue numbers are very relevant though.
 
BabaYaga said:
Sure, but it's not a valid argument anyway because Dale was not the OL coach at Louisville last year.

The Purdue numbers are very relevant though.
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Actually they aren’t … you said it yourself above … Card was running for his life but because his mobility was far better than OConnells it turned potentially very negative plays into positive ones where in years prior it’s a loss. This will not only reduce the rushing totals but kill the average yards per carry.

What’s really funny is the 3 years the rushing stats were at their lowest OConnell was your QB and even in 23 the numbers weren’t better than the first two with Williams.

Ironically enough the same Jack Plummer was part of their best statistical season running the ball (he chipped in 100 yards roughly). You could just ditch the smoke screen and say your Oline recruiting sucks … that is more accurate and honestly a problem we have had as well. We just aren’t delusional about it.
 
wfschrec said:
Actually they aren’t … you said it yourself above … Card was running for his life but because his mobility was far better than OConnells it turned potentially very negative plays into positive ones where in years prior it’s a loss. This will not only reduce the rushing totals but kill the average yards per carry.

What’s really funny is the 3 years the rushing stats were at their lowest OConnell was your QB and even in 23 the numbers weren’t better than the first two with Williams.

Ironically enough the same Jack Plummer was part of their best statistical season running the ball (he chipped in 100 yards roughly). You could just ditch the smoke screen and say your Oline recruiting sucks … that is more accurate and honestly a problem we have had as well. We just aren’t delusional about it.
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Card contributed 2.2 YPC to the cause. Take out him and the YPC raises greatly O'Connell barely had. enough carries for it to really impact it at all.

On the bold: I am not a moron or biased when it comes to Purdue. I never said the OL recruiting was good. In fact, Purdue was terrible recruiting the last two years and the recruiting rankings spell that out. If your position coach sucks at recruiting and/or coaching that position - that portion of recruiting will be terrible. We had guys leave because they didn't want to play for Dale, that is a fact. The position coach has an effect on the recruiting at his position. Dale Williams was the guy who didn't want to recruit Dawand Jones even though he was a legacy.

I'm not delusional.
 
BabaYaga said:
Card contributed 2.2 YPC to the cause. Take out him and the YPC raises greatly O'Connell barely had. enough carries for it to really impact it at all.

On the bold: I am not a moron or biased when it comes to Purdue. I never said the OL recruiting was good. In fact, Purdue was terrible recruiting the last two years and the recruiting rankings spell that out. If your position coach sucks at recruiting and/or coaching that position - that portion of recruiting will be terrible. We had guys leave because they didn't want to play for Dale, that is a fact. The position coach has an effect on the recruiting at his position. Dale Williams was the guy who didn't want to recruit Dawand Jones even though he was a legacy.

I'm not delusional.
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i am sure you are not delusional.

You keep blaming the OL recruiting on Dale though and keep saying his poor recruiting was a key issue.

I only follow Syracuse football recruiting. For as long as I can remember, with all the different HCs that have been at Syracuse, recruiting responsiblities have been assigned geographically.

Each coach gets a geographic area they are responsible for and they focus on that area, Now if a recruit visits and plays a position the coach coaches, they will be there for the visit and time will be allocated for the recruit to visit with the coach.

But the OL coach has never been solely responsible for recruiting OL recruits.

Are you saying Purdue recruits by position, so the RB coach only recruits RBs, the OL coach only recruits OL and so on?

I have never heard of this.
 
sutomcat said:
i am sure you are not delusional.

You keep blaming the OL recruiting on Dale though and keep saying his poor recruiting was a key issue.

I only follow Syracuse football recruiting. For as long as I can remember, with all the different HCs that have been at Syracuse, recruiting responsiblities have been assigned geographically.

Each coach gets a geographic area they are responsible for and they focus on that area, Now if a recruit visits and plays a position the coach coaches, they will be there for the visit and time will be allocated for the recruit to visit with the coach.

But the OL coach has never been solely responsible for recruiting OL recruits.

Are you saying Purdue recruits by position, so the RB coach only recruits RBs, the OL coach only recruits OL and so on?

I have never heard of this.
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That is correct, that is how Jeff Brohm divided it up for the position coaches.
 
BabaYaga said:
Card contributed 2.2 YPC to the cause. Take out him and the YPC raises greatly O'Connell barely had. enough carries for it to really impact it at all.

On the bold: I am not a moron or biased when it comes to Purdue. I never said the OL recruiting was good. In fact, Purdue was terrible recruiting the last two years and the recruiting rankings spell that out. If your position coach sucks at recruiting and/or coaching that position - that portion of recruiting will be terrible. We had guys leave because they didn't want to play for Dale, that is a fact. The position coach has an effect on the recruiting at his position. Dale Williams was the guy who didn't want to recruit Dawand Jones even though he was a legacy.

I'm not delusional.
Expand...


93 carries at 2.2 ypc gives an extra 203 yards in total.

O’Connell had 43 carries in 2022 for -1.9 ypc and and -81 yards … so you’re saying that roughly 300 yard delta doesn’t make a difference? Right …

In theory if Card kept the same 2.2 avg and the same number of carries as OConnell that would be a 4.1 yard per carry delta for what is roughly 10-12% of your total carries in a season based on a rough number of 400 team carries for the season. Yeah no impact at all …
 
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