How many players on our roster can shoot 35% from 3pt range for a season?

[RF2044]

Thank you for an adult response and not the responses from the holier than thou poster.

I am frustrated because the staff has dropped the ball IMO. We haven't had a full roster since 2o12. Think about that and our scholarship penalties didn't start till last year. We won't have a full roster of scholarship players till 2019 at the earliest. JB only has 2 years left. 2017 is going to be a lot like 2016. We are going to be a bubblish NCAA team.

Then for 2018 which is JB last year we only have Howard-Chukwu-Moyer- under scholarship as Gillon/Coleman/Roberson are Seniors and Lydon/Battle have strong NBA draft potential.

My frustration is because I am looking long term and big picture. I am not looking to belittle people and be a tough guy who acts smug putting fans down. This 2016 Final Four was huge because I am worried about the next 2 years. Hopefully we get a lot of top 2017 commits. We will need a lot of recruits.

I think the frustration some are expressing toward you is because you are making declarative statements about how the team will be. For example: "2017 is going to be a lot like 2016. We are going to be a bubblish NCAA team."

That's your opinion, not fact. And yet across multiple threads, you've consistently expressed extreme pessimism for what the immediate future of this team is. You are entitled to your opinion, but so are others.

And I agree with jsshap above that you're a terrific poster. I just happen to disagree with your premise about the sky falling. If Gillon is legit, than this team CAN be a lot like 2016--but not in the sense of being a bubble team, but one capable of making a run.

 

[Alsacs]

I think the frustration some are expressing toward you is because you are making declarative statements about how the team will be. For example: "2017 is going to be a lot like 2016. We are going to be a bubblish NCAA team."

That's your opinion, not fact. And yet across multiple threads, you've consistently expressed extreme pessimism for what the immediate future of this team is. You are entitled to your opinion, but so are others.

And I agree with jsshap above that you're a terrific poster. I just happen to disagree with your premise about the sky falling. If Gillon is legit, than this team CAN be a lot like 2016--but not in the sense of being a bubble team, but one capable of making a run.

Not directed at you because I know you get it. However, if people are morons and don't get how I talk is my style and can't figure out its an opinion they are helpless. Unless a post has a link to support its statement its typically an opinion.

I am a realist. I don't hide that. I am positive when its appropriate and I am critical when its appropriate. I have no problem with different opinions. I get made at holier than thou posters who make any criticize posts there job to respond to. I could have been stronger but am letting it go with that poster.

I see the next 2 years being rough. Now we could get recruits and I would amend my opinion but I respond to what I see.

 

[RF2044]

Not directed at you because I know you get it. However, if people are morons and don't get how I talk is my style and can't figure out its an opinion they are helpless. Unless a post has a link to support its statement its typically an opinion.

I am a realist. I don't hide that. I am positive when its appropriate and I am critical when its appropriate. I have no problem with different opinions. I get made at holier than thou posters who make any criticize posts there job to respond to. I could have been stronger but am letting it go with that poster.

I see the next 2 years being rough. Now we could get recruits and I would amend my opinion but I respond to what I see.

Fair.

And I see the next two years optimistically. I think we landed a stud guard, and our frontcourt is going to be much improved in 2017 [I'm also hugely bully on Battle]. And I think the class of 2017 presents a huge OPPORTUNITY to attract highly rated recruits who will keep things rolling [especially Greene, Diallo, Tucker, and Richardson]. Next year, I'm more worried about our lack of a natural 3 than anything [although I'm told that Moyer might surprise there].

Like I said above, the sky isn't falling.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think the frustration some are expressing toward you is because you are making declarative statements about how the team will be. For example: "2017 is going to be a lot like 2016. We are going to be a bubblish NCAA team."

That's your opinion, not fact. And yet across multiple threads, you've consistently expressed extreme pessimism for what the immediate future of this team is. You are entitled to your opinion, but so are others.

And I agree with jsshap above that you're a terrific poster. I just happen to disagree with your premise about the sky falling. If Gillon is legit, than this team CAN be a lot like 2016--but not in the sense of being a bubble team, but one capable of making a run.

I get it RF, I really do. I've consistently been one of the most optimistic posters in the past, but it's frustrating. We've been stuck in the middle of the pack in the ACC, and we seem to always be a player away. We have 8 scholarship guys, and half of those guys aren't known as offensive threats.

We are 20-24 in our last 44 conference games. Other teams in the league are getting guys back that are as talented as Mal (Grayson Allen) or less talented, but more productive (Justin Jackson). Louisville may still get back Onuaku. Miami still may get McClellan back. UVA is getting Perrantes back who might be the best PG in the ACC. These teams have beat us more than we have beat them consistently over the past two plus years, and they've all added high level guys as well.

While we have added guys, we are losing our top 3 guys from a middle of the pack team, which is more than most. If we played a different style, I may be more optimistic, but we have played nothing but halfcourt slugfests the past few years. Can Gillon and Battle get out and run if teams force a slow tempo on us. I'm highly skeptical.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think the frustration some are expressing toward you is because you are making declarative statements about how the team will be. For example: "2017 is going to be a lot like 2016. We are going to be a bubblish NCAA team."

That's your opinion, not fact. And yet across multiple threads, you've consistently expressed extreme pessimism for what the immediate future of this team is. You are entitled to your opinion, but so are others.

And I agree with jsshap above that you're a terrific poster. I just happen to disagree with your premise about the sky falling. If Gillon is legit, than this team CAN be a lot like 2016--but not in the sense of being a bubble team, but one capable of making a run.

Outside of that run (where we were a bubble team), I would prefer we are not too much like 2016, where we lost to some poor teams and went .500 in conference. I'd say we have more unknowns this year than last (especially with regards to players who will play a lot).

 

[Alsacs]

Fair.

And I see the next two years optimistically. I think we landed a stud guard, and our frontcourt is going to be much improved in 2017 [I'm also hugely bully on Battle]. And I think the class of 2017 presents a huge OPPORTUNITY to attract highly rated recruits who will keep things rolling [especially Greene, Diallo, Tucker, and Richardson]. Next year, I'm more worried about our lack of a natural 3 than anything [although I'm told that Moyer might surprise there].

Like I said above, the sky isn't falling.

I just think Battle will be good but I am not going to put too much on him. If he averaged 10-14 ppg that would be great. People are expecting more and I am not going to expect more. Again if he has a Freshman Dion Waiters or Michael Carter- Williams season that isn't enough. Heck even a Freshman Tyler Ennis season isn't enough. We don't have CJ Fair/Kris Joseph support for the kid. I only see 4 kids who can score right now. That is crazy.

Where do you see the front court improved offensively? I think Chukwu helps the interior D for sure but Lydon is the only big I can see scoring on his own without an offensive rebound. I think this year's roster is better than next year's unless Frank Howard makes a huge leap.

 

[Nahson]

I just think Battle will be good but I am not going to put too much on him. If he averaged 10-14 ppg that would be great. People are expecting more and I am not going to expect more. Again if he has a Freshman Dion Waiters or Michael Carter- Williams season that isn't enough. Heck even a Freshman Tyler Ennis season isn't enough. We don't have CJ Fair/Kris Joseph support for the kid. I only see 4 kids who can score right now. That is crazy.

Where do you see the front court improved offensively? I think Chukwu helps the interior D for sure but Lydon is the only big I can see scoring on his own without an offensive rebound. I think this year's roster is better than next year's unless Frank Howard makes a huge leap.

If he has an Ennis kind of season, we will be fine lol.

 

[longislandcuse]

I understand people's frustrations but will let everything play out with mystery recruits and what not still in the mix.

I think Howard, Battle, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu is an elite defensive team that will be one of the best offensive rebounding teams in the country. Halfcourt Offense gets dicey though.. If Battle and Howard can shoot the 3 at a respectable clip then we're fine, if not, the offense will look like "bully ball" with guys driving the lane and our front line trying to play volleyball on the backboard. Gillon, Moyer and DC looks to be really solid depth, as long as Moyer comes ready.

 

[Alsacs]

If he has an Ennis kind of season, we will be fine lol.

Ennis averaged 12.9 PPG, 5.5 APG that was amazing and I would take that right now for Battle if you gave me the chance too.

If Battle averages 13 PPG where are the 47 PPG going to come from to average just 60 PPG.

Battle has to have to have an Ennis like season and that is putting a lot on the kid. We have had a small margin for error these past few years and next year will be the smallest margin for error.

 

[RF2044]

I just think Battle will be good but I am not going to put too much on him. If he averaged 10-14 ppg that would be great. People are expecting more and I am not going to expect more. Again if he has a Freshman Dion Waiters or Michael Carter- Williams season that isn't enough. Heck even a Freshman Tyler Ennis season isn't enough. We don't have CJ Fair/Kris Joseph support for the kid. I only see 4 kids who can score right now. That is crazy.

Where do you see the front court improved offensively? I think Chukwu helps the interior D for sure but Lydon is the only big I can see scoring on his own without an offensive rebound. I think this year's roster is better than next year's unless Frank Howard makes a huge leap.

Frontcourt:

• Lydon will be a highly experienced sophomore. I assume that he'll get stronger, which will help his low post game and his ability to score in the paint [which he showed flashes of last year].

• Roberson is a guy who has averaged just under 9 ppg for two consecutive seasons. There is potential there for him to do more. I expect him to have a big senior season where he kicks things up a notch. If he starts knocking down the mid-range jumper, he can easily get to 13-14 ppg.

• Coleman is never going to be a bigger scorer here. But he showed at times that he can be an effective inside scorer [with either hand]. Most importantly, he stayed healthy. So for the first time in his collegiate career, he can actually devote the off-season to improving his skills rather than just trying to get back to being healthy. Heading into last season, he was a health risk and a totally unproven commodity who was generally inexperienced. This year, those three things don't hold true anymore. I could easily see him providing a bit more than he did last season just as a function of a strong off-season where he works hard.

• Don't underestimate the offensive value of Chukwu. Sounds funny to say, since I don't think we're going to see big scoring from him this year. But I DO expect quality rebounding and superior shot blocking--which can trigger run out opportunities. This team is going to be faster [almost to a player] than last year's team, and will have the tools to capitalize on more easy scoring opportunities in transition.

• Gillon is a pretty damn good interior passer. Which is going to be important, because he's going to get into the lane on penetrations. A lot. And when the defense adjusts to cut him off, he's going to have tons of dump off opportunities for Lydon. And Roberson. And Chukwu. And Coleman. I'm guessing that we see at least two alley oop conversions most games due to Gillon being such a strong penetrator.

• Better overall depth [except at 3], across the board, means we have lots of versatile combinations to play.

• I haven't even mentioned the mystery recruit, who if he somehow ended up here, would bring a ton to the table offensively.

Now, I'm not suggesting that things are perfect. I'd feel better if we had Mali back, if for no other reason that at least he has the proven capacity to play the 3. I'm not sold on either Lydon / Moyer manning it adequately, but that's fodder for another post.

But I can easily see the frontcourt being improved, and providing us with much more than it did last year.

 

[Alsacs]

I understand people's frustrations but will let everything play out with mystery recruits and what not still in the mix.

I think Howard, Battle, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu is an elite defensive team that will be one of the best offensive rebounding teams in the country. Halfcourt Offense gets dicey though.. If Battle and Howard can shoot the 3 at a respectable clip then we're fine, if not, the offense will look like "bully ball" with guys driving the lane and our front line trying to play volleyball on the backboard. Gillon, Moyer and DC looks to be really solid depth, as long as Moyer comes ready.

So basically we have to hope Battle is an NBA lottery pick like MCW and best case scenario we are the 2013 without a CJ Fair type forward. If this team had a CJ Fair type forward I feel a lot better but it doesn't.

 

[jordoo]

It seems that every off season lately a portion of the board seems to focus way too much on what we don't have rather than what we do have. There is one piece that if we get will make us very dangerous on offense and very flexible lineup wise.

 

[orangenirvana]

Are you really going to compare the roster from 2010 to what we have now.

2010 had to players who could score with their backs to the basket in the post. Rick Jackson and Arinze Onauku.

How many post scorers do we have on the roster now? Coleman? No, Roberson? No, Chuwku? Hopefully but unlikely.

Where is the Wes Johnson transfer on this roster right now? Johnson could play SF and PF and could drive the ball, hit midrange jumpers, 3 pt shots and oh yeah was the Big East Player of the Year.

We don't have a Wes Johnson on the roster now oh yeah. Tyler Lydon is a stretch 4 not a Wes type player.

Who is the Kris Joseph who can play the wing and get to the rim?

We had 3 guard rotation that is the only similarity Brandon Triche, Scoop Jardine, Andy Rautins. Now its Tyus Battle, Frank Howard, and John Gillon.

2009 had 3 NBA draft picks on the team. This roster we have right now is not anything like the 2009 team. That team had quality guards, mid range game, 3 pt shooting, and 2 post scorers. The team we have now has potential to be a good defensive team. We should make the tourney though.

You're looking at the 2010 team with the convenience of 20/20 hindsight.

Rick Jackson was playing out of position at the 4.
Wes Johnson was a transfer who had a solid - not spectacular - career at a lesser program up to that point (sound familiar?).
Kris Joseph was nothing but an unproven commodity going into the 2009-10 season.
Scoop Jardine spent the prior season watching from the bench two years removed from a disappointing freshman year.
Even Rautins was considered by some to be a disappointment and a huge drop-off from Flynn/Devendorf.

That team had one NBA first-round draft picks, two overall - which was at least one if not two more than anyone thought before the season began. The 2016-17 could potentially have three 2017 NBA Draft first-round picks.

Players step up at big-time programs.

 

[Alsacs]

Frontcourt:

• Lydon will be a highly experienced sophomore. I assume that he'll get stronger, which will help his low post game and his ability to score in the paint [which he showed flashes of last year].

• Roberson is a guy who has averaged just under 9 ppg for two consecutive seasons. There is potential there for him to do more. I expect him to have a big senior season where he kicks things up a notch. If he starts knocking down the mid-range jumper, he can easily get to 13-14 ppg.

• Coleman is never going to be a bigger scorer here. But he showed at times that he can be an effective inside scorer [with either hand]. Most importantly, he stayed healthy. So for the first time in his collegiate career, he can actually devote the off-season to improving his skills rather than just trying to get back to being healthy. Heading into last season, he was a health risk and a totally unproven commodity who was generally inexperienced. This year, those three things don't hold true anymore. I could easily see him providing a bit more than he did last season just as a function of a strong off-season where he works hard.

• Don't underestimate the offensive value of Chukwu. Sounds funny to say, since I don't think we're going to see big scoring from him this year. But I DO expect quality rebounding and superior shot blocking--which can trigger run out opportunities. This team is going to be faster [almost to a player] than last year's team, and will have the tools to capitalize on more easy scoring opportunities in transition.

• Gillon is a pretty damn good interior passer. Which is going to be important, because he's going to get into the lane on penetrations. A lot. And when the defense adjusts to cut him off, he's going to have tons of dump off opportunities for Lydon. And Roberson. And Chukwu. And Coleman. I'm guessing that we see at least two alley oop conversions most games due to Gillon being such a strong penetrator.

• Better overall depth [except at 3], across the board, means we have lots of versatile combinations to play.

• I haven't even mentioned the mystery recruit, who if he somehow ended up here, would bring a ton to the table offensively.

Now, I'm not suggesting that things are perfect. I'd feel better if we had Mali back, if for no other reason that at least he has the proven capacity to play the 3. I'm not sold on either Lydon / Moyer manning it adequately, but that's fodder for another post.

But I can easily see the frontcourt being improved, and providing us with much more than it did last year.

I hope your right. I just agree to disagree.

 

[Alsacs]

You're looking at the 2010 team with the convenience of 20/20 hindsight.

Rick Jackson was playing out of position at the 4.
Wes Johnson was a transfer who had a solid - not spectacular - career at a lesser program up to that point (sound familiar?).
Kris Joseph was nothing but an unproven commodity going into the 2009-10 season.
Scoop Jardine spent the prior season watching from the bench two years removed from a disappointing freshman year.
Even Rautins was considered by some to be a disappointment and a huge drop-off from Flynn/Devendorf.

That team had one NBA first-round draft picks, two overall - which was at least one if not two more than anyone thought before the season began. The 2016-17 could potentially have three 2017 NBA Draft first-round picks.

Players step up at big-time programs.

Rick Jackson and Arinze Onauku gave us post offense in 2009. They were decent on that team.
Joseph was a Freshman in 2009 but he wasn't unexpected in 2010 to make a leap as a Sophomore.
JB told the fanbase how special Wes Johnson was during his transfer year. He said he was the best player on the practice floor during the 2009 season.
Andy Rautins was coming into his Senior year and had been a good 3 point shooter in 2009 and was solid.

The only unknowns in 2010 were Triche and Scoop. That team is nothing like what we have now.

Who besides Battle and Lydon could be a first round pick on the roster now?

I see not much potential for growth beyond Howard on the roster right now. Moyer has a chance after his Freshman year but next year.

2017 will be a lot closer to 2016 than it will 2010 people need to be objective.

 

[RF2044]

Rick Jackson and Arinze Onauku gave us post offense in 2009. They were decent on that team.
Joseph was a Freshman in 2009 but he wasn't unexpected in 2010 to make a leap as a Sophomore.
JB told the fanbase how special Wes Johnson was during his transfer year. He said he was the best player on the practice floor during the 2009 season.
Andy Rautins was coming into his Senior year and had been a good 3 point shooter in 2009 and was solid.

The only unknowns in 2010 were Triche and Scoop. That team is nothing like what we have now.

Who besides Battle and Lydon could be a first round pick on the roster now?

I see not much potential for growth beyond Howard on the roster right now. Moyer has a chance after his Freshman year but next year.

2017 will be a lot closer to 2016 than it will 2010 people need to be objective.

Chukwu.

 

[orangenirvana]

Rick Jackson and Arinze Onauku gave us post offense in 2009. They were decent on that team.
Joseph was a Freshman in 2009 but he wasn't unexpected in 2010 to make a leap as a Sophomore.
JB told the fanbase how special Wes Johnson was during his transfer year. He said he was the best player on the practice floor during the 2009 season.
Andy Rautins was coming into his Senior year and had been a good 3 point shooter in 2009 and was solid.

The only unknowns in 2010 were Triche and Scoop. That team is nothing like what we have now.

Who besides Battle and Lydon could be a first round pick on the roster now?

I see not much potential for growth beyond Howard on the roster right now. Moyer has a chance after his Freshman year but next year.

2017 will be a lot closer to 2016 than it will 2010 people need to be objective.

Chukwu has a chance to be a first-round pick without even doing much. 7-2 kids with athleticism don't grow on trees.

You don't see much potential for growth with Lydon? Kid was underdeveloped and had to play out of position the entire season. Or Roberson to a lesser extent? An athletic senior who averaged 11.2 rebounds in the NCAA Tournament and shot a respectable 57% from the floor.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Chukwu.

I suggested Chukwu would be part of our best lineup yesterday, and Bees shot me down saying he's not ready to contribute as much as Roberson..etc...

 

[Alsacs]

Chukwu.

That would be a little premature. I don't think the NBA drafts any 7 footers. He needs a lot of work before he goes in the first round. I hope the kid is good enough to go first round but I would bet against him even being an NBA draft pick right now.

 

[Alsacs]

Chukwu has a chance to be a first-round pick without even doing much. 7-2 kids with athleticism don't grow on trees.

You don't see much potential for growth with Lydon? Kid was underdeveloped and had to play out of position the entire season. Or Roberson to a lesser extent? An athletic senior who averaged 11.2 rebounds in the NCAA Tournament and shot a respectable 57% from the floor.

Marcus Lee is a 7 footer from Kentucky and he isn't going anywhere near the first round and he is as athletic as Chukwu. The kid needs to be way more polished to go in the first round.

Lydon offensively averaged 10.1 PPG 6.3 RPG how can you call him underdeveloped?

I don't expect much more than 15 PPG, 8 RPG from him. 5 more points per game may be a lot as well.

I expect nothing more from Roberson he hasn't shown he can shoot the ball at all. He is a rebounder, energy guy and gets putbacks.

I honestly don't see this team next year against P6 competition averaging more than 60-65 PPG.

 

[orangenirvana]

Lydon offensively averaged 10.1 PPG 6.3 RPG how can you call him underdeveloped?

You think this body is fully developed and muscle maximized?

The strength he gains this offseason will help him tremendously.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Marcus Lee is a 7 footer from Kentucky and he isn't going anywhere near the first round and he is as athletic as Chukwu. The kid needs to be way more polished to go in the first round.

Lydon offensively averaged 10.1 PPG 6.3 RPG how can you call him underdeveloped?

I don't expect much more than 15 PPG, 8 RPG from him. 5 more points per game may be a lot as well.

I expect nothing more from Roberson he hasn't shown he can shoot the ball at all. He is a rebounder, energy guy and gets putbacks.

I honestly don't see this team next year against P6 competition averaging more than 60-65 PPG.

I think Lydon could average 18 if we made him the focal point of the offense, which I think we have to.

I agree that Robey is just a junkyard dog type player.

We should run next year, as we have athletes, but lack some skill. The problem is we haven't run much at all the past 3-4 years, and teams hold the ball against us in the halfcourt.

 

[RF2044]

Marcus Lee is a 7 footer from Kentucky and he isn't going anywhere near the first round and he is as athletic as Chukwu. The kid needs to be way more polished to go in the first round.

Lydon offensively averaged 10.1 PPG 6.3 RPG how can you call him underdeveloped?

I don't expect much more than 15 PPG, 8 RPG from him. 5 more points per game may be a lot as well.

I expect nothing more from Roberson he hasn't shown he can shoot the ball at all. He is a rebounder, energy guy and gets putbacks.

I honestly don't see this team next year against P6 competition averaging more than 60-65 PPG.

Honestly speaking, at the beginning of last year, I didn't think that I'd seen a worse, less capable offensive team than the squad we had. We were imbalanced, depth sucked, and we had several streaky players. This stuff you're saying about 60-65 ppg against P5 teams WAS thrown about last year, and was a legitimate concern.

If last year's team could eclipse that with little difficulty, any team can. We're going to be fine.

 

[Dave85]

You think this body is fully developed and muscle maximized?

The strength he gains this offseason will help him tremendously.

Plus the stache will be thicker his sophomore season giving him more confidence!

 

[pearl31]

So basically we have to hope Battle is an NBA lottery pick like MCW and best case scenario we are the 2013 without a CJ Fair type forward. If this team had a CJ Fair type forward I feel a lot better but it doesn't.

So you think Lydon < Fair ?