How many players on our roster can shoot 35% from 3pt range for a season?

[orangefog]

The difference will be next year's team will be a different kind of offense than this past year. We went with a three point shooting team this year, because that is what we had in abundance. Next year we will see a shift to more interior scoring, especially if our new guard can penetrate and dish like we are hoping. Frank can do this also. Battle is also a willing passer that can penetrate. This offense will be different, but it could be more versatile and very effective. I would rather have Richardson back, because he was a guy that could get his own shot at will, but he will represent the Orange well in the NBA. We will be ok next year, and one more piece could really make a difference.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I'm pretty sure Gillon coming on board was the result of Malachi heading to the NBA. Boeheim knew he needed a 3rd guard who could play lots of minutes. He certainly isn't coming here to take Kaleb's place. They knew what they had in Chino and Joseph transferring was a done deal in January. I'm like you in that I'm just curious as the rationale why they're going with 8-9 players.

Some posters think that the staff is very good at identifying talent, but must suck at predicting who will go to the NBA early because they're constantly surprised. Mike Hopkins sees more people play basketball live in a month while recruiting than I have in my life, but according to some posters he can't tell if someone has NBA skills or not. But, unlike some people on the board, I saw Mali as a potential 1 & done relatively early and I'm 99.999% sure that Hop and JAB knew what kind of player Malachi could be a lot earlier than me:
Malachi One and Done?
I don't know why people keep thinking that that the staff can't judge NBA talent, though.

If we don't get anybody before tomorrow as a recruit it will be all 5th year transfer guys or an 8 man team.

I don't think that's true.

 

[orangenirvana]

JB had to know Kaleb and Chino were leaving. They also got the 11th scholarship back in November. That is what I am talking about. Gillon isn't enough. JB wanted more he brought in Gillon/Mullins/Albrecht and only got 1. He wanted more. We still haven't locked down Thompson because he wants PT and he sees that he will sit his Fr year.

That is what I am talking about. How weren't we ready to use these scholarships. Malachi's is irrelevant. If we had 10 guys that is a lot different than 8. If we just didn't/don't fill the Malachi scholarship it would be a lot better.

Right now we have 1 more day in the Spring Signing period and only have 8 scholarship players. If we don't get anybody before tomorrow as a recruit it will be all 5th year transfer guys or an 8 man team. That is frustration. Why can't people figure this out and need it explained. It is not hard to figure out.

Francis has been saying on the BB recruiting board our staff has limited our recruiting to the Northeast. That is a problem when recruiting HS kids and getting in late.

Since JB only uses a 7.5 man rotation, SU has never consistently held a full 13 player roster as long as I've followed the team. Kids want to play and you don't want six scholarship athletes sulking on a bench for an entire season year after year.

I don't see why JB would "know" Kaleb and Chino were leaving until the beginning of the first signing period at the earliest. And no one even considered Malachi not returning until April. You said it yourself - Thompson is not committing because he wants immediate playing time. These kids aren't as dumb as they used to be, which is exactly the challenges the staff faces when trying to add to a roster at the last minute.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We could have went after Kevin Huerter harder. He's right in our recruiting wheelhouse. Instead we backed off, because we lacked scholarships at the time and he ended up at Maryland. There was the outside shooter we could have had.

Ty Jerome and Shamorie Ponds are two other good guards from New York I don't think we even looked at. We'll play both of them this year at UVA and St. Johns.

That's three guards in a four hour radius that could have helped us this year and in the future as they are all likely four year guys.

 

[RF2044]

We could have went after Kevin Huerter harder. He's right in our recruiting wheelhouse. Instead we backed off, because we lacked scholarships at the time and he ended up at Maryland. There was the outside shooter we could have had.

Ty Jerome and Shamorie Ponds are two other good guards from New York I don't think we even looked at. We'll play both of them this year at UVA and St. Johns.

That's three guards in a four hour radius that could have helped us this year and in the future as they are all likely four year guys.

We did. It came down to Huerter or Battle. We weren't going to land both.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We did. It came down to Huerter or Battle. We weren't going to land both.

If I recall correctly, we wanted him, but we wanted him to prep a year and didn't have a scholarship at the time after Battle committed.

 

[pearl31]

If I recall correctly, we wanted him, but we wanted him to prep a year and didn't have a scholarship at the time after Battle committed.

yep that's how I remember it.
but yeah, sure could use him right about now

 

[Fly Rodder]

And no one even considered Malachi not returning until April.

No one huh?
Malachi One and Done?

Syracuse players don't stick around. He gone.

 

[Alsacs]

Seton Hall and Michigan State are nearly maxed out with recruits. He's not guaranteed playing time at either school.

I understand that but those teams HC probably player more of their bench than JB does. From everything we have heard on Thompson he likes Syracuse but doesn't want to sit the bench his Freshman year. He wants just to be part of a rotation.

 

[Alsacs]

Could we have gotten Huerter ? When did he commit to Maryland? Or could we have gotten anyone of those other two guys from NYC?

We have had the scholarship back since November and honestly I was told by somebody on the board we knew we were getting atleast 1 back on the appeal since July.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Huerter committed to Maryland in September. We offered him a spot contingent he went prep first cause it was thought we had a full roster at the time.

 

[orangenirvana]

No one huh?
Malachi One and Done?

Nice catch haha

A lot of fan worry throughout the year but I honestly don't think it had much heat until the Final Four run. That gave him enough exposure to catch NBA scouts' eyes. Yet even Richardson didn't declare until the last day or so. He doesn't leave without winning regional MOP.

 

[Alsacs]

Since JB only uses a 7.5 man rotation, SU has never consistently held a full 13 player roster as long as I've followed the team. Kids want to play and you don't want six scholarship athletes sulking on a bench for an entire season year after year.

I don't see why JB would "know" Kaleb and Chino were leaving until the beginning of the first signing period at the earliest. And no one even considered Malachi not returning until April. You said it yourself - Thompson is not committing because he wants immediate playing time. These kids aren't as dumb as they used to be, which is exactly the challenges the staff faces when trying to add to a roster at the last minute.

Having a 7.5 man rotation and only have 8 scholarship players are completely different.

The best recent Syracuse team in 2012 was 11 deep with 1 other scholarship player and 1 walkon.

JB hasn't ever had a team with this few scholarship players in the recent run. Just because the kids on the bench don't play they still practice an the assistant work on developing their future potential.

In 2009 Kris Joseph was a bench player who didn't play much.
In 2010 James Southerland was a bench player who didn't play much.
In 2011 Fab Melo was a starter who didn't play much.
In 2012 Michael Carter Williams was a bench player who didn't play much.
In 2013 Trevor Cooney was a bench player who didn't play much.
Last year hopefully it is Frank Howard is the one who plays more next year and helps.

Players not in the rotation still are needed. We only have 8 guys that is the problem. We need developmental prospects we will none beyond Moyer next year. My frustration is not about just 2016-17 it is the next years.

 

[Alsacs]

Huerter committed to Maryland in September. We offered him a spot contingent he went prep first cause it was thought we had a full roster at the time.

So basically the NCAA costed us Huerter. Would he have come if we got Battle and he had a scholarship as well?
How about those two other guys could we have gotten them?

It seems like the 11th scholarship has gone towards Thompson who is a PF instead of a SF or another guard which should have been higher needs. I say that because even if Richardson came back we still don't have a SF on the roster.

We need a forward who can make shots.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Huerter committed to Maryland in September. We offered him a spot contingent he went prep first cause it was thought we had a full roster at the time.

With Chino and Kaleb in the fold. That was after the summer workouts ... I'm not sure when Boeheim had a chance to look at Joseph again. He basically gave the 15-16 PG job to G at the end of last season and said in the fall that if Howard had been on the team in 14-15, he would have started over Joseph. But lots of people were still surprised when Kaleb transferred. Not sure why Huerter wanted to commit so quickly to MD when he was know to prefer Syracuse ... meh, water under the bridge.

 

[RF2044]

With Chino and Kaleb in the fold. That was after the summer workouts ... I'm not sure when Boeheim had a chance to look at Joseph again. He basically gave the 15-16 PG job to G at the end of last season and said in the fall that if Howard had been on the team in 14-15, he would have started over Joseph. But lots of people were still surprised when Kaleb transferred. Not sure why Huerter wanted to commit so quickly to MD when he was know to prefer Syracuse ... meh, water under the bridge.

Boeheim also stated coming off of last summer that Kaleb improved more last offseason than anybody on the team. So, even accounting for some fudge factor there, I don't believe that JB envisioned Joseph regressing the way he did and ultimately being gone.

It is easy to look back now and through the 20/20 hindsight lens say: "well OBVIOUSLY Joseph wasn't going to be here next year... JB should have done something differently on the recruiting trail prior to last November..."

I think last November, we expected to only need one guard. The top two guys we prioritized were Battle and Huerter. Right, wrong, or indifferent--they liked Battle a bit more and made him the focus of their efforts. I think we COULD have landed Huerter if we'd focused more on him instead of Battle, but the coaches wanted Battle and ultimately got him.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Nice catch haha

A lot of fan worry throughout the year but I honestly don't think it had much heat until the Final Four run. That gave him enough exposure to catch NBA scouts' eyes. Yet even Richardson didn't declare until the last day or so. He doesn't leave without winning regional MOP.

I just go with the general rule that if a kid is top-40 recruit or a Mickie D AA, it's at least 50/50 he's gone after one season - no reason not to prepare for the departure in advance. And I agree he was a late burner, but his stroke was NBA level and he had size. It was pretty obvious in conference play. He shot 41.5% from 3 and wasn't shy about taking them.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Battle didn't come chances are we get Huerter. Sanctions hurt us there, and we had Moyer/battle for Cooney/g. Thompson didn't come into the fold until later. I would of rather had Huerter. He would instantly be the 2nd best shooter on this team after Lydon. Don't believe we went after Ponds or Jerome.

 

[RF2044]

If I recall correctly, we wanted him, but we wanted him to prep a year and didn't have a scholarship at the time after Battle committed.

That was our way of trying to land BOTH Battle and Huerter. Don't blame Huerter for punting on that option, when he had so many other schools recruiting him who weren't asking him to prep.

It will be interesting to see how their respective careers play out. I hope Battle isn't a one and done. The story in my head is like Steve Francis / Steve Blake. Francis was way more dynamic, but Blake had just as big of an impact over a four year timeframe.

 

[Cusefan0307]

With Chino and Kaleb in the fold. That was after the summer workouts ... I'm not sure when Boeheim had a chance to look at Joseph again. He basically gave the 15-16 PG job to G at the end of last season and said in the fall that if Howard had been on the team in 14-15, he would have started over Joseph. But lots of people were still surprised when Kaleb transferred. Not sure why Huerter wanted to commit so quickly to MD when he was know to prefer Syracuse ... meh, water under the bridge.

Easy. Huerter will most likely start at Maryland. They lose their entire starting 5 if Trimble declares. Huerter replaces Sulaimon for them.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That was our way of trying to land BOTH Battle and Huerter. Don't blame Huerter for punting on that option, when he had so many other schools recruiting him who weren't asking him to prep.

It will be interesting to see how their respective careers play out. I hope Battle isn't a one and done. The story in my head is like Steve Francis / Steve Blake. Francis was way more dynamic, but Blake had just as big of an impact over a four year timeframe.

I agree that was our strategy, but I don't think we had to play it that way with the amount of roster turnover we have had the past three years. We never use all of our ships, and that was the worry. I would of rather had Huerter than Gillon for a bunch of reasons(longevity,defense, shooting)

 

[Alsacs]

That was our way of trying to land BOTH Battle and Huerter. Don't blame Huerter for punting on that option, when he had so many other schools recruiting him who weren't asking him to prep.

It will be interesting to see how their respective careers play out. I hope Battle isn't a one and done. The story in my head is like Steve Francis / Steve Blake. Francis was way more dynamic, but Blake had just as big of an impact over a four year timeframe.

Battle is gone. He will get the minutes and unless he doesn't do well and I don't want that he will be gone.
The NCAA costed us Huerter but I wish we really tried to get him to wait just a little longer before committing to Maryland. Almost everyone knew we were getting some relief from our NCAA appeal but the freaking NCAA waited till November to make that announcement.

We need 6-8 recruits for 2017-18. We need atleast 2 Guards/1 SF/1 PF and then whatever else the staff wants.

 

[orangenirvana]

My frustration is not about just 2016-17 it is the next years.

Word has it the staff is recruiting a few players for next year's class.

 

[RF2044]

I agree that was our strategy, but I don't think we had to play it that way with the amount of roster turnover we have had the past three years. We never use all of our ships, and that was the worry. I would of rather had Huerter than Gillon for a bunch of reasons(longevity,defense, shooting)

Not me--I love Gillon.

But I understand where you're coming from in terms of the long-term perspective.

I also think it is important to keep in mind that we didn't know about the scholarship relief at that point. People can say that they expected X, Y, or Z to occur last fall--and many hazarded guesses--but nobody knew for sure. The NCAA is also unpredictable, so while many expected the sanctions to be walked back, we were all holding our breath until the reduction actually got announced.

What if KJ hadn't flopped and was poised to play next season? What if Chino doesn't transfer? What if Mali doesn't leave? We couldn't recruit both Battle and Huerter because we didn't have the scholarship in Nov 2015 to accommodate both. Hindsight is 20/20; had we known that those two would transfer, I'm willing to bet we might have recruited another guard option more actively.

 

[orangenirvana]

I hope Battle isn't a one and done.

I'm actually hoping that he is.