Howard bashing...

[newmexicuse]

Who was the intended starting point guard?

quade, does anybody think we would have been better off with him ?

 

[two3zone]

quade, does anybody think we would have been better off with him ?

I don't think we would ve been better but I'm not 100% sure he would've started.

 

[MikeSU02]

We needed him. He made the leap we wished for this year. He was playing ridiculous minutes.

It's too bad some of his TOs last night were just killer. The long alley oop attempt was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen in a college basketball game and that's saying something considering how bad college basketball is.

My biggest issue with Frank is that his emotions get the best of him. I'm not going to complain about his other limitations, because every player has them, but he needs to channel his emotions much better. He gets way too caught up and you can see the bad plays coming (dumb fouls, long three and now those alley oops).

 

[newmexicuse]

I don't think we would ve been better but I'm not 100% sure he would've started.

i think if quade had come, that frank and him would have been the starting backcourt w ty starting at sf. now how long quade would have stayed on the court is an entirely different question

 

[two3zone]

i think if quade had come, that frank and him would have been the starting backcourt w ty starting at sf.

Very much could've happened, worst case he could've added depth and we could have been better. Who knows. I'm very happy for these guys, they played a hell of a game yesterday.

 

[rrlbees]

We needed him. He made the leap we wished for this year. He was playing ridiculous minutes.

It's too bad some of his TOs last night were just killer. The long alley oop attempt was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen in a college basketball game and that's saying something considering how bad college basketball is.

My biggest issue with Frank is that his emotions get the best of him. I'm not going to complain about his other limitations, because every player has them, but he needs to channel his emotions much better. He gets way too caught up and you can see the bad plays coming (dumb fouls, long three and now those alley oops).

His alley oop to Dolezaj in a prior game was just as long and was successful. I don’t agree with the emotions part. Not seeing it as much as you and the guy who shows the emotion and complains the most is Battle. Usually rightfully so.

 

[MikeSU02]

His alley oop to Dolezaj in a prior game was just as long and was successful. I don’t agree with the emotions part. Not seeing it as much as you and the guy who shows the emotion and complains the most is Battle. Usually rightfully so.

I think Battle never gets the foul call he deserves. Complaining to the refs doesn't mean someone lets his emotions get the best of him. Tim Duncan was a notorious complainer but he wasn't emotional, for example. Two different things.

Frank swipes at ball handlers all the time after he is either locked up on D or misses a shot and then usually presses on the offensive end afterwards. We can agree to disagree. Maybe some of that is he's not built to play 40 mpg, which basically no one is. I think it just impacts him more.

We do not have the personnel to throw these oops regularly and in traffic. Just because Frank nailed a long oop once doesn't mean it should be part of our offense. And he freaking killed us with them yesterday, especially at the times they were thrown. Not all TOs are the same and his, especially the long one, was incredibly dumb. Duke would let him throw that 10 out of 10 times. They would beg him to do so.

He isn't the sole reason we lost, but he has some serious What moments for a third year PG. Again, maybe the MPG are just too much for him and he breaks down. It's not like JB can pull him for anyone else.

He's a good player, and we needed him, but he makes some of the worst decisions I've ever seen for someone in his position.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

This. Round peg, square hole.

He's not a point guard but was forced to play as one due to our limited deck. And he makes some of the mistakes a player who's not a point guard would make when trying.

That situation is not his fault. It just is what it is.

Hopefully we don't have to start him at PG again next year but given his experience we could certainly do worse.

You two new to Syracuse hoops? There is no way JB doesn't start Frank at pg next year, unless Frank gets hurt. JB favors seniors.

 

[realorange]

You could have a thread on any of our players and find just as many things to whine about.

How many TOs did Marek have?

Why didn't Brissett take 6-8 foot shots in the lane instead of trying to pass or ram into a crowd?

Why does Chukwu continue to get foolish fouls?

Why is Tyus a black hole much of the time once he gets the ball?

My point is simply that they all do things that are easy to criticize. Nobody is perfect and never will be.

Funny how all those players making all those mistakes, but playing together as a team, gave us a season none of us expected and have been thrilled with.

 

[SWC75]

It's not hard to come away with the thought that Frank could go 10-10 with 25 assists and 30 rebounds and 50 points and some people would still say, yea but what about the two turnovers, he's not a true point guard and did you see the horrible pass he threw over Chukwu's head, can't wait until next year when we have a freshman come in and be a real PG. And, they'd defend themselves by saying that he has room to improve and that objective criticism is fair, when it's neither objective nor fair. It's his first year with the ball in his hands all the time running a team. His first year. Without him we don't win 10 effin games. Not 10. Every single player at this level has an upside and a downside.

I expect Frank will be our point guard next year and as a senior, experienced point guard, he'll be an asset to his team, just as he was this year. He had a bad game, (at least in respect to the primary things you want from a point guard) and so I said so. Every single player has an upside and a downside and I've pointed out each one all season. 'bashing is seeing only the negative things. Check out my posts over the season and see if my comments on Frank were one-sided:
Search Results for Query: The Upside | Syracusefan.com

Search Results for Query: The Downside | Syracusefan.com

By the way, Jim Boeheim said that Frank is a point guard and always has been.

 

[Ghost]

You could have a thread on any of our players and find just as many things to whine about.

How many TOs did Marek have?

Why didn't Brissett take 6-8 foot shots in the lane instead of trying to pass or ram into a crowd?

Why does Chukwu continue to get foolish fouls?

Why is Tyus a black hole much of the time once he gets the ball?

My point is simply that they all do things that are easy to criticize. Nobody is perfect and never will be.

Funny how all those players making all those mistakes, but playing together as a team, gave us a season none of us expected and have been thrilled with.

I think to a certain extent everyone does their evaluation off of what they've seen, and what they expect based upon that inital baseline. What's Frank capable of, what did we get in the tourney? Did he elevate his game? Did he play worse? The same?

I mean, Marek clearly elevated his game.

Chukwu clearly did at points.

Tyus had a solid game, Oshae did in the second half. I think Frank never had those moments in the tourney. Kid elevated his game considerably in the off-season, came back and played some insane minutes, and had a solid year...did you get what you wanted yesterday though? Some did. Some didn't. Why everyone is acting like any negativity is beyond their ability to comprehend is just weird to me. I spent two years defending the kid...I always understood why people thought he sucked though.

I didn't think he played insanely bad in the tourney, but I'm not sure there was more than a fleeting moment or two where I felt like he was the calming influence we may have needed, or elevated his game much at all. That's my biggest disappointment by far - as some others really had some fantastic moments. I don't know - I guess I feel like I can point to moments from everyone else where I felt like they rised to the occasion - where the moment wasn't bigger than them - I don't have that with FH. Otherwise, cant' complain too much.

As far as the defense, eh, when we recruit guards because they're tall, but lacking guard skills, I kinda expect the defense. I mean, I would be MAD if we were playing 6'7" non-traditional point guards that couldn't play the zone fairly well in year 3. It's why you're on the roster at all. hahaha

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

His alley oop to Dolezaj in a prior game was just as long and was successful. I don’t agree with the emotions part. Not seeing it as much as you and the guy who shows the emotion and complains the most is Battle. Usually rightfully so.

Frank gets frustrated, then does dumb things, like that shove under the basket (I forget the game).

 

[cuse10]

You could have a thread on any of our players and find just as many things to whine about.

How many TOs did Marek have?

Why didn't Brissett take 6-8 foot shots in the lane instead of trying to pass or ram into a crowd?

Why does Chukwu continue to get foolish fouls?

Why is Tyus a black hole much of the time once he gets the ball?

My point is simply that they all do things that are easy to criticize. Nobody is perfect and never will be.

Funny how all those players making all those mistakes, but playing together as a team, gave us a season none of us expected and have been thrilled with.

I actually mentioned Brissett in the downside thread and have brought it up all season. He doesn't have a mid range shot. He should be shooting for hours per day this offseason.

 

[orangecuse]

So we're an 11 and they're a 6 and you wouldn't take down 1 at the half? smh. I love this...he sulks, he has no basketball IQ, he's not cerebral (whatever that means), he lets things affect his mindset...will there be anything thing else included in your psychological examination of someone you don't know and only view either on tv or in the stands?

You apparently struggle with reading comprehension. Your slight/dramatics are cute too...good for you. Yes, if you're actually paying even a whiff of attention, one can observe another's body language, it's not that difficult and certainly doesn't require a PhD to do so. I never said he has "no" basketball IQ, those are your words to in your effort to be condescending, again, good for you. I said his on court awareness/savviness/basketball IQ is not good (again not nil), especially in critical moments when situational awareness of the moment is key. If you don't know what the reference of not being cerebral means in sports, than that is on you. I don't need to explain such an remedial observation of risk vs. reward based upon the game situation and/or specific time such an attempt may be better suited or warranted. Not to mention, that term has been thrown around for a long time.

To answer your question about being an 11 vs. a 6. The seeding isn't as relevant as the actual game being played out. We were up 3 with the ball and under 25 seconds left in the half. A smart (more cerebral, oh there's that word again) would've been to hold for the last shot so that the worse case is we go in at half down 3 with the best case being we are up 5 or 6 at the half. We should've never have been down 1 at half considering the particular circumstances that existed with 25 seconds left. JB even commented in his presser, in so many words, that that was dumb and that luckily we were able to recover.

 

[manleyzoo]

You apparently struggle with reading comprehension. Your slight/dramatics are cute too...good for you. Yes, if you're actually paying even a whiff of attention, one can observe another's body language, it's not that difficult and certainly doesn't require a PhD to do so. I never said he has "no" basketball IQ, those are your words to in your effort to be condescending, again, good for you. I said his on court awareness/savviness/basketball IQ is not good (again not nil), especially in critical moments when situational awareness of the moment is key. If you don't know what the reference of not being cerebral means in sports, than that is on you. I don't need to explain such an remedial observation of risk vs. reward based upon the game situation and/or specific time such an attempt may be better suited or warranted. Not to mention, that term has been thrown around for a long time.

To answer your question about being an 11 vs. a 6. The seeding isn't as relevant as the actual game being played out. We were up 3 with the ball and under 25 seconds left in the half. A smart (more cerebral, oh there's that word again) would've been to hold for the last shot so that the worse case is we go in at half down 3 with the best case being we are up 5 or 6 at the half. We should've never have been down 1 at half considering the particular circumstances that existed with 25 seconds left. JB even commented in his presser, in so many words, that that was dumb and that luckily we were able to recover.

This is so ridiculous, condescending and bottom line incomprehensible it proves my point. You're not on the floor, you're not in the huddle, you're not in the locker room, you're no expert on reading body language...you have no idea what has been said nor what the strategy is, and even more to the point, you clearly don't understand that there are defenders on the floor. What you do understand is looking at something either on the TV or in the stands and making the pompous conclusion that you know what you're talking about. And far worse you assign responsibility for it to one player. It's the text book definition of bashing. As for seeding, the stat of a lower seed beating a higher seed is a common calculation of success in the tournament. You should at least be able to tell that from your view in front of the TV. You can arm chair coach all you want but it doesn't make you right. As for cerebral, it's kind of nonsensical to come back with I don't know what the word means. What I was saying is you misapplied it not having near enough information to make that call.

 

[orangecuse]

This is so ridiculous, condescending and bottom line incomprehensible it proves my point. You're not on the floor, you're not in the huddle, your're not in the locker room, you're no expert on reading body language...you have no idea what has been said nor what the strategy is, and even more to the point, you clearly don't understand that there are defenders on the floor. What you do understand is looking at something either on the TV or in the stands and making the pompous conclusion that you know what you're talking about. And far worse you assign responsibility for it to one player. It's the text book definition of bashing. As for seeding, the stat of a lower seed beating a higher seed is a common calculation of success in the tournament. You should at least be able to tell that from your view in front of the TV. You can arm chair coach all you want but it doesn't make you right. As for cerebral, it's kind of nonsensical to come back with I don't know what the word means. What I was saying is you misapplied it not having near enough information to make that call.

 

[manleyzoo]

I expect Frank will be our point guard next year and as a senior, experienced point guard, he'll be an asset to his team, just as he was this year. He had a bad game, (at least in respect to the primary things you want from a point guard) and so I said so. Every single player has an upside and a downside and I've pointed out each one all season. 'bashing is seeing only the negative things. Check out my posts over the season and see if my comments on Frank were one-sided:
Search Results for Query: The Upside | Syracusefan.com

Search Results for Query: The Downside | Syracusefan.com

By the way, Jim Boeheim said that Frank is a point guard and always has been.

I do read your posts, especially your radio show ones, which I very much enjoy. I've been on this board since the AOL days and myself have obsessively (not saying you do) zeroed in on one guy more than once (Hart & Cooney in particular). I'm not saying Frank isn't a true point (I actually think there should be no such thing as a point, a 2, 3 and so on, a player is a player) I'm saying there's endless, repetitive whining from some that he's not. I've always seen him as a point guard, he was recruited as one and I'm expecting him to be all league next year. I don't see that he had such a bad game as people complain he did. On the lobs no one seems to allow that JB may have told him to push that to move Duke's big guys back to open up the middle. JB does have a clue or two about what can work in the 2-3 and how to make it move one way or another. But more to the point, to assign such blame to him for this play and that play without knowing what goes on in the huddle is bashing.

 

[manleyzoo]

It's obvious that the gameplan called for pushing the envelope on every alley oop opportunity. Frank did it. His execution was awful on some, but he got us like 10 points on the ones that we did convert. It was a reasonable gameplan for a team with a lousy offense and I was happy to see it. Especially in light of the fact the Brissett disappeared, this was probably SU's best chance to win. It fell short. I hope SU identified a potential mismatch for the future (Chukwu over virtually everyone) and Frank's able to work on his accuracy. Don't think he deserves too much crap for last night.

Back in the day in the 82 championship game Ewing goal tended 5 shots in 5 minutes to open the game. Lots of people went %&#@!!!, what's he doing? He's crazy, he's awful blah blah. Not many realized that it was Thompson's early strategy to change North Carolina's offense. It cost Georgetown 10 early points but it worked. You're right, it's obvious the lobs were in the game plan. It fell short but I think you're right again that we'll see a lot more of it next year when it will work.

 

[Arangeman]

Frank had a very good season. He didn’t have a very good last game. Time to move on and look for improvement next year.

 

[Arangeman]

Back in the day in the 82 championship game Ewing goal tended 5 shots in 5 minutes to open the game. Lots of people went %&#@!!!, what's he doing? He's crazy, he's awful blah blah. Not many realized that it was Thompson's early strategy to change North Carolina's offense. It cost Georgetown 10 early points but it worked. You're right, it's obvious the lobs were in the game plan. It fell short but I think you're right again that we'll see a lot more of it next year when it will work.

Georgetown lost by 1. I never got the lauding of that strategy.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

You two new to Syracuse hoops? There is no way JB doesn't start Frank at pg next year, unless Frank gets hurt. JB favors seniors.

And Frank has earned the right to be the starter.

 

[SWC75]

I do read your posts, especially your radio show ones, which I very much enjoy. I've been on this board since the AOL days and myself have obsessively (not saying you do) zeroed in on one guy more than once (Hart & Cooney in particular). I'm not saying Frank isn't a true point (I actually think there should be no such thing as a point, a 2, 3 and so on, a player is a player) I'm saying there's endless, repetitive whining from some that he's not. I've always seen him as a point guard, he was recruited as one and I'm expecting him to be all league next year. I don't see that he had such a bad game as people complain he did. On the lobs no one seems to allow that JB may have told him to push that to move Duke's big guys back to open up the middle. JB does have a clue or two about what can work in the 2-3 and how to make it move one way or another. But more to the point, to assign such blame to him for this play and that play without knowing what goes on in the huddle is bashing.

Obviously we don't know what goes on in the huddle but that doesn't mean we can't assign blame or we could never criticize anyone. I don't think the game plan was to throw the ball so high that Chukwu on top of Chukwu couldn't get it. or to throw the alley opp as soon as he crossed midcourt.

Bashing is continuous, one sided criticism. I'm glad you're not saying I've done that.

 

[manleyzoo]

Obviously we don't know what goes on in the huddle but that doesn't mean we can't assign blame or we could never criticize anyone. I don't think the game plan was to throw the ball so high that Chukwu on top of Chukwu couldn't get it. or to throw the alley opp as soon as he crossed midcourt.

Bashing is continuous, one sided criticism. I'm glad you're not saying I've done that.

The plan is one thing, the execution is another. Because it wasn't executed properly doesn't mean it wasn't the plan. Have to disagree with you on assigning blame or criticism. You may have disagreed with the strategy if you knew it and then have a problem with the execution. But without knowing the strategy assigning culpability is toothless. And, no I'm not saying you're a basher. I am saying that the criticism is out of context.

 

[SWC75]

The plan is one thing, the execution is another. Because it wasn't executed properly doesn't mean it wasn't the plan. Have to disagree with you on assigning blame or criticism. You may have disagreed with the strategy if you knew it and then have a problem with the execution. But without knowing the strategy assigning culpability is toothless. And, no I'm not saying you're a basher. I am saying that the criticism is out of context.

I have no problem with the plan. My problem is with the execution.

 

[manleyzoo]

I have no problem with the plan. My problem is with the execution.

Fair enough