Howard bashing...

[MikeDamone]

Cherry pick? When we did break, usually off steals, he almost always finished.

Yes, I cherry picked the only break I remember him leading last night

 

[CusefanATL]

My biggest concern and curiosity is how Frank will handle it next year when he goes from being at worst option 1b on offense to potentially option 4 on offense behind Bazely, Brissett and maybe even Marek. What hurt Frank in previous years is that he’s not good when the ball isn’t in his hands and his first instinct is too look for his shot and not set up others. That’s not going to fly next year if Brissett and Marek keep improving and Bazely is as good as advertised.

option 1b? what are you talking about?

Tyus was 1a and Oshae was 1b. Frank was a clear option 3.

 

[rrlbees]

Yes, I cherry picked the only break I remember him leading last night

So one play over the course of a season is the defining play. Got it.

 

[llandz]

I can't even read this whole thread. I don't believe in ever bashing one player. I loved Scoop, and do to this day. I also love Frank. Both are players that have heart. Both are great examples of Syracuse student athletes. Frank speaks and represents our team very well in press conferences. He bleeds Orange. He has improved immensely so far. He is a hard worker. This is the type of person I want on my team. Maybe this is why they willed their way to the Sweet 16 and almost the Elite Eight. Same for Moyer, since he will be the next one everyone goes after. No one bleeds Orange more than Moyer...

 

[MikeDamone]

So one play over the course of a season is the defining play. Got it.

The open floor lob when we could have held for 1 shot before half against TCU was also brilliant. Resulted in a 4 point swing

 

[longislandcuse]

I can't even read this whole thread. I don't believe in ever bashing one player. I loved Scoop, and do to this day. I also love Frank. Both are players that have heart. Both are great examples of Syracuse student athletes. Frank speaks and represents our team very well in press conferences. He bleeds Orange. He has improved immensely so far. He is a hard worker. This is the type of person I want on my team. Maybe this is why they willed their way to the Sweet 16 and almost the Elite Eight. Same for Moyer, since he will be the next one everyone goes after. No one bleeds Orange more than Moyer...

Don't read the "So Moyer" thread...

 

[orangecuse]

It's interesting how some view dissecting weaknesses in one's game being "bashing." This is the highest level of D1 hoops, at a program that many here classify as 'Elite.' If it's truly elite, there should be a bar/standard of expected talent level. Why do we want to give kudos to guys who bleed Orange or put in the effort that should be the standard at any D1 program, let alone one of SU's stature? These guys are all getting full rides and this isn't little league where everyone gets a trophy for giving effort. Reminds me of a lot of our culture today and the bumper stickers you see (you know the ones I'm referring to) that back in the day would've never even thought about being placed anywhere, as that was generally the standard bar anyways.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don't disagree. I do disagree that players can't be called out for having bad games. Frank had a bad game. Bye.

Players should not be called out for physically having a bad game. That happens. They are not pros.
Mental mistakes or lack of effort are fair game, IMO.

 

[Oakland]

What many don't seem to understand is that Frank was never intended to be the starting PG. He is doing the best he can for a position he was never fully qualified for. Complainers should bash JB not Frank.

I am seeing a lot of it in various threads. Frank was a huge part of this tournament run. It is our D up top that is particularly tough. Well who does everybody think plays next to Ty ??

So, the kid could have shot better. He had 8 boards and 5 assists. That shows heart and effort. Maybe, he felt his shot was off, so he didn't force things & only took six.

Our O was efficient tonight - we shot 49%. We had strong entry passes to the high post, we had some effective lobs. Who do you think had a big part in orchestrating all of that ?

people complain about a few stray lobs - Frank only had three of sixteen TOs.

Personally, I think too many TOs was the big deciding factor, but that wasn't any more on Frank than it was on the team as a whole.

Some posters here need to grow up and appreciate what a remarkable post-season turn-around we had with an undermanned, under talented squad.

 

[newmexicuse]

It's interesting how some view dissecting weaknesses in one's game being "bashing." This is the highest level of D1 hoops, at a program that many here classify as 'Elite.' If it's truly elite, there should be a bar/standard of expected talent level. Why do we want to give kudos to guys who bleed Orange or put in the effort that should be the standard at any D1 program, let alone one of SU's stature? These guys are all getting full rides and this isn't little league where everyone gets a trophy for giving effort. Reminds me of a lot of our culture today and the bumper stickers you see (you know the ones I'm referring to) that back in the day would've never even thought about being placed anywhere, as that was generally the standard bar anyways.

I call it bashing when it is one sided. I did not see a post from anybody critical of frank's bad lobs that also talked about his 8 boards, his several successful lobs, and his overall effective d and then try to evaluate whether or not he had an overall good or bad game. They just picked on a few bad plays & said that he stank. To me, that is bashing.

 

[SWC75]

I am seeing a lot of it in various threads. Frank was a huge part of this tournament run. It is our D up top that is particularly tough. Well who does everybody think plays next to Ty ??

So, the kid could have shot better. He had 8 boards and 5 assists. That shows heart and effort. Maybe, he felt his shot was off, so he didn't force things & only took six.

Our O was efficient tonight - we shot 49%. We had strong entry passes to the high post, we had some effective lobs. Who do you think had a big part in orchestrating all of that ?

people complain about a few stray lobs - Frank only had three of sixteen TOs.

Personally, I think too many TOs was the big deciding factor, but that wasn't any more on Frank than it was on the team as a whole.

Some posters here need to grow up and appreciate what a remarkable post-season turn-around we had with an undermanned, under talented squad.

Frank has a definite upside and downside. Neither should be dismissed or ignored. He's a big part of our defense and 8 rebounds are 8 rebounds. 1 for 6 is also 1 for 6. 5 assists should be average for a point guard. The passer often doesn't get credited with a turnover even though the majority of time it's his fault. The "few stray lobs" were big plays in a close game. He went to them long after they stopped working and in situations where we were not really set up for them. His casual way of bringing the ball up the court in all situations and his frequent ignorance of the shot clock cannot be ignored. he did very little to probe the defense in this game.

He improved substantially this season and can improve substantially next season as well. There is room for it and a need for it.

 

[newmexicuse]

Frank has a definite upside and downside. Neither should be dismissed or ignored. He's a big part of our defense and 8 rebounds are 8 rebounds. 1 for 6 is also 1 for 6. 5 assists should be average for a point guard. The passer often doesn't get credited with a turnover even though the majority of time it's his fault. The "few stray lobs" were big plays in a close game. He went to them long after they stopped working and in situations where we were not really set up for them. His casual way of bringing the ball up the court in all situations and his frequent ignorance of the shot clock cannot be ignored. he did very little to probe the defense in this game.

He improved substantially this season and can improve substantially next season as well. There is room for it and a need for it.

Overall you are one of the best posters on this forum. i am personally a fan of your upside/downside posts. I look forward to them after every game. I generally agree with 90% of what you say. Objectivity is your forte.

But, above you are saying TOs not credited to him are his fault. Sorry, that is not fair. 5 assists are average - well, in order to get an assist you have to have somebody on the other end who can seal the deal. Most of this season we shot only a bit over 30%. Casual way he brought the ball upcourt - he had ZERO turnovers yesterday other than lobs. Not to mention if you are playing all 40 because of a flawed roster that nobody can go 100% on every play.

With all due respect, I think you need to re-read your post above & see if you still think it is fair.

 

[SWC75]

Overall you are one of the best posters on this forum. i am personally a fan of your upside/downside posts. I look forward to them after every game. I generally agree with 90% of what you say. Objectivity is your forte.

But, above you are saying TOs not credited to him are his fault. Sorry, that is not fair. 5 assists are average - well, in order to get an assist you have to have somebody on the other end who can seal the deal. Most of this season we shot only a bit over 30%. Casual way he brought the ball upcourt - he had ZERO turnovers yesterday other than lobs. Not to mention if you are playing all 40 because of a flawed roster that nobody can go 100% on every play.

With all due respect, I think you need to re-read your post above & see if you still think it is fair.

It's fair. We had a 10 second count because we didn't attack the press. His lobs were turnovers. Jimmy Satalin said that one was thrown so high Chukwu would have to have been on top of Chukwu to catch it. And it is a fact that turnovers are often credited to the target of the pass rather than the passer.

 

[kingtidge]

I like Frank's size, I like how he has progressed with his shot but he can't play PG next season. Unless Carey goes all Caleb Joseph on us then start the freshman. Turnovers happen then there's Frank's turnovers.

This. Round peg, square hole.

He's not a point guard but was forced to play as one due to our limited deck. And he makes some of the mistakes a player who's not a point guard would make when trying.

That situation is not his fault. It just is what it is.

Hopefully we don't have to start him at PG again next year but given his experience we could certainly do worse.

 

[manleyzoo]

It's fair. We had a 10 second count because we didn't attack the press. His lobs were turnovers. Jimmy Satalin said that one was thrown so high Chukwu would have to have been on top of Chukwu to catch it. And it is a fact that turnovers are often credited to the target of the pass rather than the passer.

It's not hard to come away with the thought that Frank could go 10-10 with 25 assists and 30 rebounds and 50 points and some people would still say, yea but what about the two turnovers, he's not a true point guard and did you see the horrible pass he threw over Chukwu's head, can't wait until next year when we have a freshman come in and be a real PG. And, they'd defend themselves by saying that he has room to improve and that objective criticism is fair, when it's neither objective nor fair. It's his first year with the ball in his hands all the time running a team. His first year. Without him we don't win 10 effin games. Not 10. Every single player at this level has an upside and a downside.

 

[OttoMets]

It's obvious that the gameplan called for pushing the envelope on every alley oop opportunity. Frank did it. His execution was awful on some, but he got us like 10 points on the ones that we did convert. It was a reasonable gameplan for a team with a lousy offense and I was happy to see it. Especially in light of the fact the Brissett disappeared, this was probably SU's best chance to win. It fell short. I hope SU identified a potential mismatch for the future (Chukwu over virtually everyone) and Frank's able to work on his accuracy. Don't think he deserves too much crap for last night.

 

[manleyzoo]

It's interesting how some view dissecting weaknesses in one's game being "bashing." This is the highest level of D1 hoops, at a program that many here classify as 'Elite.' If it's truly elite, there should be a bar/standard of expected talent level. Why do we want to give kudos to guys who bleed Orange or put in the effort that should be the standard at any D1 program, let alone one of SU's stature? These guys are all getting full rides and this isn't little league where everyone gets a trophy for giving effort. Reminds me of a lot of our culture today and the bumper stickers you see (you know the ones I'm referring to) that back in the day would've never even thought about being placed anywhere, as that was generally the standard bar anyways.

It's bashing because it's repetitive and endless and directed at one guy.

 

[DoctorBombay]

It's obvious that the gameplan called for pushing the envelope on every alley oop opportunity. Frank did it. His execution was awful on some, but he got us like 10 points on the ones that we did convert. It was a reasonable gameplan for a team with a lousy offense and I was happy to see it. Especially in light of the fact the Brissett disappeared, this was probably SU's best chance to win. It fell short. I hope SU identified a potential mismatch for the future (Chukwu over virtually everyone) and Frank's able to work on his accuracy. Don't think he deserves too much crap for last night.

Last night Frank became like that shooter who hits his first coupla 3s, and then keeps shooting even though he's off all game. The first few alley-oops to Chukwu were a thing of beauty and got us off to a great start. It seemed like he kept trying to replicate that every time down the court. Overall, I thought he had a very good game but since it was so close, the bashers, and yes- they are bashing, want to focus on all the things done wrong, rather than what was done right.

 

[MikeDamone]

Last night Frank became like that shooter who hits his first coupla 3s, and then keeps shooting even though he's off all game. The first few alley-oops to Chukwu were a thing of beauty and got us off to a great start. It seemed like he kept trying to replicate that every time down the court. Overall, I thought he had a very good game but since it was so close, the bashers, and yes- they are bashing, want to focus on all the things done wrong, rather than what was done right.

Marek threw one of the successful lobs to Chukwu. Frank was like 1 or 2 for 7 on his lobs.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Love it. Sums him up perfectly. What a malcontent.

Please stop.

Considering that you were calling for JB’s immediate retirement two weeks ago and what an absurd notion that turned out to be, I would think you be more a bit more circumspect with your next declarative set of posts.

 

[HakAttack]

Please stop.

Considering that you were calling for JB’s immediate retirement two weeks ago and what an absurd notion that turned out to be, I would think you be more a bit more circumspect with your next declarative set of posts.

Questioning the recent largely average regular season results of the program along with questioning a lack of consistent and fundamentally sound play from our PG is certainly absurd.

Got it. Thanks for the tip.

 

[manleyzoo]

Yeah but here's the thing. Frank claims to be the leader of this team, and, as the "floor general" you need to lead by example, be in command, not sulk like he often does when he's struggling, letting it affect his mindset, court savviness, etc. As the floor general, he needs to be more effective from a cerebral & situational standpoint and when to take higher/lessor risks, etc. Another example besides last night's lobs, was the lob he attempted at the end of the first half in the TCU game, which was a complete lack of basketball IQ considering we were up three with the ball and under 25 seconds left. Because of his poor floor decision making prowess, rather mystifying, we somehow were down 1 at the half.

So we're an 11 and they're a 6 and you wouldn't take down 1 at the half? smh. I love this...he sulks, he has no basketball IQ, he's not cerebral (whatever that means), he lets things affect his mindset...will there be anything thing else included in your psychological examination of someone you don't know and only view either on tv or in the stands?

 

[HakAttack]

So one play over the course of a season is the defining play. Got it.

We can argue that if we hadn’t gotten in, the lack of hustle at the end of the game against ND could absolutely have been the defining play of the season.

 

[rrlbees]

We can argue that if we hadn’t gotten in, the lack of hustle at the end of the game against ND could absolutely have been the defining play of the season.

Along with a hundred other plays.

 

[two3zone]

What many don't seem to understand is that Frank was never intended to be the starting PG. He is doing the best he can for a position he was never fully qualified for. Complainers should bash JB not Frank.

Who was the intended starting point guard?