I know it’s early

[Consigliere]

The argument that we had to hire in-house because that's what UNC and Duke did... never made any sense to me. Duke and UNC were in good shape. We weren't.

That’s simply not what took place. There was a list of vetted candidates, internal and external. That list has evolved over time with input from many sources, internal and external. The decision was made that Red was the most appropriate candidate. Disagree with that decision based on face value perception, but it was not made out of laziness or complacency.

 

[FrancoPizza]

That’s simply not what took place. There was a list of vetted candidates, internal and external. That list has evolved over time with input from many sources, internal and external. The decision was made that Red was the most appropriate candidate. Disagree with that decision based on face value perception, but it was not made out of laziness or complacency.

So how did Red beat out everyone else with no past HC experience?

The football situation, fortunately, shows that we can afford anyone we want - within reason. I hope that means they won’t tolerate .500 ball for more than 1 or 2 seasons.

 

[ar inj]

I hope that means they won’t tolerate .500 ball for more than 1 or 2 seasons.

Dino knew what the standard was.

Red knows what the standard is.

Enough said.

 

[jdubs30]

That’s simply not what took place. There was a list of vetted candidates, internal and external. That list has evolved over time with input from many sources, internal and external. The decision was made that Red was the most appropriate candidate. Disagree with that decision based on face value perception, but it was not made out of laziness or complacency.

Of course there was, but most knew it was going to be Red. I don’t think there was ever an intention to hire anyone outside of Red . How many people did they even talk to about the job formally?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Dino knew what the standard was.

Red knows what the standard is.

Enough said.

What exactly is the standard? It used to be a protected seed. Is it now just squeezing into the tournament?

 

[AlaskaSU]

Red is our best choice. Cuse has geographical, financial and climate handicaps. What we do have is tradition and stability. That spells Red.

If we bring in an outsider either he will be successful or not. If he is successful he will leave for greener pastures. We are not the final destination school that some fans assume that we are.

 

[tbonezone]

So how did Red beat out everyone else with no past HC experience?

hey i like RED but i'm pretty sure his name never popped up on the radar for any other top coaching jobs in the power conferences. no...make that 100 % sure. he was strictly an internal hire. the easy call.

 

[RCDICK44]

For crying out loud. Give him a year at least to get his feet wet.. Give coach a break. You want instant success..

 

[grepal]

So how did Red beat out everyone else with no past HC experience?

The football situation, fortunately, shows that we can afford anyone we want - within reason. I hope that means they won’t tolerate .500 ball for more than 1 or 2 seasons.

I am concerned about this year but if you don't give a coach 3 or 4 years to get his players for his system you had no business hiring that Coach.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Red is our best choice. Cuse has geographical, financial and climate handicaps. What we do have is tradition and stability. That spells Red.

If we bring in an outsider either he will be successful or not. If he is successful he will leave for greener pastures. We are not the final destination school that some fans assume that we are.

Where were the geo and climate handicaps back when we were signing top 5 players? When we were getting top 20s?

Michigan, Michigan St., and Ohio State aren’t beach paradises but they get top football and basketball players. Top athletes from all over the country to to places like Alabama and Kentucky, not because they’re rich cultural destinations.

If our program(s) were in better shape, those factors disappear.

Tradition and stability…. Our current tradition, to the generation of players who might someday sign with us is that we don’t often play in the Tournament. That tradition is pretty stable. We have essentially the same championship tradition as Maryland, with their win coming just one year before ours. That’s to the outside world. From within our bubble, things look different.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Where were the geo and climate handicaps back when we were signing top 5 players? When we were getting top 20s?

Michigan, Michigan St., and Ohio State aren’t beach paradises but they get top football and basketball players. Top athletes from all over the country to to places like Alabama and Kentucky, not because they’re rich cultural destinations.

If our program(s) were in better shape, those factors disappear.

Tradition and stability…. Our current tradition, to the generation of players who might someday sign with us is that we don’t often play in the Tournament. That tradition is pretty stable. We have essentially the same championship tradition as Maryland, with their win coming just one year before ours. That’s to the outside world. From within our bubble, things look different.

JB overcame our handicaps via tradition and stability. Hope Red can do the same.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

JB overcame our handicaps via tradition and stability. Hope Red can do the same.

Point is, a lot of marquee programs have those same 'characteristics,' so i don't consider them to be handicaps. Kids go where they think they will enjoy their time, where they think they will learn their craft, where they think they'll get the most/best exposure, where they think they'll be best prepared for the NBA.

That's why UC Santa Barbara, and UC San Diego don't have powerhouse programs, versus places with less lovely environments/climates. That's why high school kids transfer from home area schools to basketball prep schools in the boonies. Being in upstate New York is not a handicap. We used to get kids from California. Heck, i know from my teen nephews that they'd go to Syracuse, even though they have only known a cushy San Diego life, because they romanticize the cold and snow. They just don't know...

Syracuse 'overcame' the snow factor because it had a shiny jewel—the Carrier Dome. 30,000 fans was an impressive thing for a high schooler. It's less impressive now. Then we had Pearl. And then Seikaly and DC and Sherm. The "tradition" was built then. Not sure about "stability," unless you're talking about 'consistency.'

 

[baggerbob]

Point is, a lot of marquee programs have those same 'characteristics,' so i don't consider them to be handicaps. Kids go where they think they will enjoy their time, where they think they will learn their craft, where they think they'll get the most/best exposure, where they think they'll be best prepared for the NBA.

That's why UC Santa Barbara, and UC San Diego don't have powerhouse programs, versus places with less lovely environments/climates. That's why high school kids transfer from home area schools to basketball prep schools in the boonies. Being in upstate New York is not a handicap. We used to get kids from California. Heck, i know from my teen nephews that they'd go to Syracuse, even though they have only known a cushy San Diego life, because they romanticize the cold and snow. They just don't know...

Syracuse 'overcame' the snow factor because it had a shiny jewel—the Carrier Dome. 30,000 fans was an impressive thing for a high schooler. It's less impressive now. Then we had Pearl. And then Seikaly and DC and Sherm. The "tradition" was built then. Not sure about "stability," unless you're talking about 'consistency.'

The last 8 years diminished a lot of the good that was built over the years.
It's going to take time and patience to bring the program back to relevance.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Point is, a lot of marquee programs have those same 'characteristics,' so i don't consider them to be handicaps. Kids go where they think they will enjoy their time, where they think they will learn their craft, where they think they'll get the most/best exposure, where they think they'll be best prepared for the NBA.

That's why UC Santa Barbara, and UC San Diego don't have powerhouse programs, versus places with less lovely environments/climates. That's why high school kids transfer from home area schools to basketball prep schools in the boonies. Being in upstate New York is not a handicap. We used to get kids from California. Heck, i know from my teen nephews that they'd go to Syracuse, even though they have only known a cushy San Diego life, because they romanticize the cold and snow. They just don't know...

Syracuse 'overcame' the snow factor because it had a shiny jewel—the Carrier Dome. 30,000 fans was an impressive thing for a high schooler. It's less impressive now. Then we had Pearl. And then Seikaly and DC and Sherm. The "tradition" was built then. Not sure about "stability," unless you're talking about 'consistency.'

If 50 yrs of JB is not stability I don't know what is. The reason Santa Barbara is not a powerhouse is obvious. Why not mention USC, FSU or Georgia? They have nice climates and access to Big cities and fertile recruiting grounds. Big 10 schools have financial advantages, great facilities, huge enrollments, money for NIL, etc Admit it or not, fact is that we have handicaps. We overcame it in basketball because we had a good coach who stayed home. Red offers that potential like nobody else. Give him a chance.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

If 50 yrs of JB is not stability I don't know what is. The reason Santa Barbara is not a powerhouse is obvious. Why not mention USC l, FSU or Georgia. They have nice climates and access to Big cities and fertile recruiting grounds. Big 10 schools have financial advantages, great facilities, huge enrollments, money for NIL, etc Admit it or not, fact is that we have handicaps. We overcame it in basketball because we had a good coach who stayed home. Red offers that potential like nobody else. Give him a chance.

You use the word “stability” as if it has only one meaning. I asked you to clarify. Sure, 50 years under one coach is a form of stability. But, that’s not empirically a benefit. I’d rather have multiple championships under multiple coaches than one under one.

What‘s the obvious reason for UCSB? No Dome, right?

Why not mention USC and FSU and Georgia? Because they don’t prove or disprove anything. Players, just like academic students, go to the schools that are the best for them and climate is likely only a small factor. USC was hot for football during certain eras/periods. They were less hot during other periods. The locale and climate didn’t change. Why is/was the Newhouse school top-rated? [Is it, still?] Why do top students go to Dartmouth, Brown, Yale… etc?

Are basketball players really different? College is preparatory. You go to the situation best set up to enable success. And many players/students come from places where snow/cold is not so different from Syracuse. I went to SU from NE Ohio. My first choice of schools, since i was a kid, was USC. But Syracuse had Newhouse. I probably gave it two minutes thought, and checked the weather in Syracuse, and decided it wasn’t important enough to make a ‘comfort‘ decision. These players have millions of dollars on the line. They’re making business decisions. If a top athlete didn’t go to Syracuse, it was for reasons that outweighed climate. No one can say it’s not a factor. Calling it a handicap is a gross exaggeration. There were other, far more profound ‘impediments‘ to sustaining excellence.

 

[SDjohn]

I think that this year's team beats last year's team at this time by 10+

Imagine how many contested shots Mintz would put up in that hypothetical? 45-50 easy!

 

[miamicuse]

Some early season issues exhibited are the offense, rebounding and discipline.

It seems Red is having some difficulty reeling in the players and you see some out of control and selfish plays. This is actually to be expected in a transition like this, the dynamics has to be completely reset for the players that were here last year.

I suspect some of the players that JB coached last year because Red was the good cop to JB the bad cop, they felt a closer connection to Red. They naturally assumed with JB gone they can play free playground ball, but now Red is the decision maker and needs to be the bad cop. Some players react well to that some do not. It may take a while for Red to put his thumb down on the entire team.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Another factor is that Red is not secure enough on his new position to bring down the hammer when the team is playing selfishly. He will do it in time. I hope everyone is supportive.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Some early season issues exhibited are the offense, rebounding and discipline.

It seems Red is having some difficulty reeling in the players and you see some out of control and selfish plays. This is actually to be expected in a transition like this, the dynamics has to be completely reset for the players that were here last year.

I suspect some of the players that JB coached last year because Red was the good cop to JB the bad cop, they felt a closer connection to Red. They naturally assumed with JB gone they can play free playground ball, but now Red is the decision maker and needs to be the bad cop. Some players react well to that some do not. It may take a while for Red to put his thumb down on the entire team.

yeah judahs quote that we cant win with just judah and jj scoring (and bell)...backs up what you are saying

i think judah got the picture from maui

 

[AlaskaSU]

You use the word “stability” as if it has only one meaning. I asked you to clarify. Sure, 50 years under one coach is a form of stability. But, that’s not empirically a benefit. I’d rather have multiple championships under multiple coaches than one under one.

What‘s the obvious reason for UCSB? No Dome, right?

Why not mention USC and FSU and Georgia? Because they don’t prove or disprove anything. Players, just like academic students, go to the schools that are the best for them and climate is likely only a small factor. USC was hot for football during certain eras/periods. They were less hot during other periods. The locale and climate didn’t change. Why is/was the Newhouse school top-rated? [Is it, still?] Why do top students go to Dartmouth, Brown, Yale… etc?

Are basketball players really different? College is preparatory. You go to the situation best set up to enable success. And many players/students come from places where snow/cold is not so different from Syracuse. I went to SU from NE Ohio. My first choice of schools, since i was a kid, was USC. But Syracuse had Newhouse. I probably gave it two minutes thought, and checked the weather in Syracuse, and decided it wasn’t important enough to make a ‘comfort‘ decision. These players have millions of dollars on the line. They’re making business decisions. If a top athlete didn’t go to Syracuse, it was for reasons that outweighed climate. No one can say it’s not a factor. Calling it a handicap is a gross exaggeration. There were other, far more profound ‘impediments‘ to sustaining excellence.

If you do not know why a non-power conference school like USBC is not a powerhouse there is no need for discussion. The Zags are the only non-power conference top tier team. They have a coach much like JB in that he is staying at Gonzaga and bleeds for them.
Simply put, if we get rotating coaches, our basketball team will become our football team.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

But officially put me on the not sold on RED train. Obviously it’s very early but extremely concerning what I’ve seen so far.

Since game 1, the team has looked ill prepared, lethargic, no resemblance or rhythm on offense and defense our guys have zero clue what they are doing half the time. Missed switches, open guys, not getting back on defense. Our offense looks rushed, so much one on one and non disciplined shot taking. Honestly horrendous.

Missed free throws, excessive turnovers and the team can’t rebound for their life. The rotation has been a mess. Red should have had a pretty good idea of a tight rotation going into yesterday. That he did not. Been a pretty rough start for Red and consider me less than impressed. Just horrible basketball

It appears that JM came back to prove himself to the NBA and it also appears that our offense is screen and roll, designed primarily to showcase JM and JJS.
Then Benny seemingly becomes a head case, and Red has to deal with that.
I am willing to let it shake out, and see how it grows.
That said, I am really big on the 2 guys coming in, especially Freeman. It appears he will give us some toughness.

 

[OptimusOtto]

Let's get to New Years at least before any sweeping proclamations. Some concerning signs but also we're right where we expected to be at this point in the season (4-2). Coming back against Colgate was a great sign. Yes I won't disagree we should've never been in that spot but some of our teams the last few years would've packed it up and got run off the floor.

Teams like Tennessee and Gonzaga are legitimate final four contenders and know how to exploit a team's weaknesses. Part of what makes a coach great is how they adjust. We have a massive stretch coming up with our next 5. Big test for Red to make adjustments post Maui and get us to a spot where we're not digging out of a non-conference hole in order to make the tourney.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Has anyone brought up relegation as a possibility?

 

[MSOrange]

Has anyone brought up relegation as a possibility?

 

[walsh2012]

Are people surprised we got waxed by two F4 caliber teams after less than 5 games running different offensive and defensive systems?