Jon Rothstein live from Cuse practice today | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Jon Rothstein live from Cuse practice today

Am I the only one who hates how every thread like this devolves into an argument about who the starting five is going to be? Am I the only one who really doesn't care what the starting line up is? Its pretty clear that we are going to play many different line ups this year, and we are going to play different line ups in different games to exploit our opponents weaknesses. Who cares what line up we play during the first couple minutes of the game, which by the way are the least important minutes when both teams are still feeling each other out.

Anyway, as an attempt to change the direction of the conversation, I'm going to throw out a few line ups which I think are interesting or useful. Here are the rules I am going by: first, to me SU has only 3 positions, not 5, and those three positions are (1) top of the zone (2) wing of the zone (3) center. I'm going to play everybody at their regular position and nobody is going to switch positions except Lydon and White who I think are capable. Second, I'm going to have Lydon and Battle in every line up. Why? I think those are our two best players (maybe more hope than think in Battle's case, but its more of an educated guess than a wild hope because I saw him play quite a few times in high school).

Best defensive line up:

Howard, Battle, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu - Pretty self explanatory here, tons of length, tons of shot blocking, tons of rebounding. I could see White possibly emerging as a better defensive option at the top of the zone, its a little too early to tell just yet.

Best offensive line up:

Gillon, Battle, White, Roberson, Lydon - I'm imagining 4 great shooters with Roberson down low to vacuum up every miss. Also with this kind of court spacing Battle will dominate just about anybody who tries to guard him 1 on 1 without help. For me, one of the most interesting questions is if we see Lydon at the 5 this year, and if so, how much. I think Boeheim will decide to play Lydon at the 5 when he sees an advantage - like when the other team's 5 is resting or in foul trouble, or when team's are not going down low against us.

When we press (or get pressed):

Gillon, Battle, White, Lydon, Chukwu - If we really want to sell out on the press Howard can replace Lydon. This could be one of our best pressing teams ever. I think we use this option in most competitive games.

Best offense/defense balance line up:

Howard, Battle, White, Lydon, Chukwu - I think there are plenty of minutes for both Roberson and Chukwu but we lack a little balance with both on the floor at the same time. I wonder if they become an either/or situation in many games even though they don't play the same position. I could have also said Howard, Battle, White, Roberson, Lydon. I could also replace Howard with Gillon in either of these line ups. Lots still to be worked out.

Most intriguing line up:

Battle, White, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu - Lots of defense in this line up, plus three good shooters, and five rebounders. The flaw is that this line up is dependent on a freshman to do almost 100% of the ball handling, and distributing, and a disproportionate amount of the scoring. If Battle is a Carmelo Anthony type (not in style or even really in quality, but in the fact that he can be THE man on a championship caliber team as a freshman) then its possible we see this line up a lot and it becomes a very successful line up.

Players you don't see in any of these line ups: Coleman, Thompson, Moyer. You'll see Coleman in every game, and you'll see Thompson in every blow out, but I don't think any of these three will be on the court when it really really matters barring Coleman playing because Chukwu is in foul trouble.

If we win the championship these two things will happen:

1) Battle is a one-and-done top 10 draft pick.
2) Chukwu is the ACC defensive player of the year.
Nice lineups! It's going to be so much fun to see what kind of combinations Jimmy will use this year. He can go big or small. (Did I mention Gillon is fast?) Or even HUGE with Lydon, TT, Chukwu, Battle, Howard (or huger with White in for Howard) I don't care that much about who starts.

I think important factors will determine who plays where.
1. Defense at the top. Our scoring and transition has not been great the last few years but the defense at the guard spot has. Losing Cooney and G's defensive experience is huge. I think minutes/positions will be determined by who can move correctly at the top of the zone.

2a. Conversely, we have experience at 3-5 and even Chukwu has been practicing in our system. Then comes rotations. Who will spell Robey or Lydon at forward?

2b. How much time will White and Battle see at the three? How fast can TT learn the zone? Will Moyer recover from his turf toe quickly and be able to go a few minutes. I can see him playing a KrisJo type of role.

I feel like this is the first time in a while that we can be equally excited about the potential strength of the zone and offensive firepower. Maybe Battle will average 20+, Frank will be an assist machine, and White and Lydon will get so many open looks. Robey can dominate the glass and will have more opportunities in transition.

Oh yeh, and we can an Orange madness scrimmage this year with all scholarship players!!!
 
I'm curious as to what you've seen that makes you think Battle is a "2"?

From what l've SEEN so far this summer/fall, he's more of a 1/3 combo than a "2". Great athlete who will shine in transition, his strength is attacking the paint and mid range floaters. His shot needs work.
He is a 2 on defense and a 3 on offense. He isn't going to play the 1. I guess he could actually start a game at the 1 but he wouldn't be there long.
 
I've been saying this since last February, he is Larry Bird (and no, not because he is white): same height, same frame, same speed, same skill-set, similar shooting style...right down to the cheesy mustache. If he can develop his dribble a little bit more, he will be right there.
Needs to seriously upgrade his smack talking.
 
iommi said:
I've seen him in person more than a handful of times. Granted, it was mostly his sophomore and senior year, since his junior year was a washout with injuries. He could play the 3 but here's why he's a 2. Your description is spot on, starting with, "great athlete." The 2 accentuates his strengths better than any other position. He's a wing, and in the SU system, being up top in the zone brings out his defense and ability to turn it into offense. He's an excellent on-ball defender. He's 6'6 1/2", that size is ideal for the top of the zone, where he can harass smaller players. Throw him down low and that advantage is negated. Battle is a decent passer but not elite, that's why I don't see him as a 1. He's unselfish but much better off being set up to score than setting up others. I'm surprised you said, "floaters" because when I've seen him he had a mid range game but not a floater in the way I think of floaters (I think of Josh Pace's floater). His jumper is mostly a face up traditional jumper, unless he's added a floater to his repertoire. His handle is good not point guard great. As you said, he shines in transition, where his strength and athleticism makes him a cut above. I'd prefer to have him as a guard for that reason as well. Let him be a one man fast break with his defense and ability to finish. Battle is more than capable of helping us getting ball up against pressure and initiating our offense when need be. The only reason he might not be an ideal 2 is everybody's favorite knock on him: deep ball shooting. The Battle I've seen was a streaky shooter. That still might be the case. I still think he can shoot for a serviceable % from 3-- let's say 30-33% this year. He won't be a liability by any stretch and with the talent around him, he will take good shots. The kid is very smart, with a tremendous hoops IQ. He plays like a son of a coach/ instructor because that's what he is. In closing, I want the ball in hands. It'd be in his hands more in the 2 than in the 3. And as I've said, we have two better pure lead guards on the roster, so why force the issue?

Okay. I buy that. I think we pretty much agree with assessment of his game, I just wouldn't call him a pure "2".

He's versatile and I'd rather have him at the top of the zone than White on defense, but when we're on offense, White will stretch the d and Battles roll Will be to get out in transition, or in the half-court, penetrate and create. He will not thrive in the half-court by chucking threes.

He's at best our 4th best option from deep.
 
Okay. I buy that. I think we pretty much agree with assessment of his game, I just wouldn't call him a pure "2".

He's versatile and I'd rather have him at the top of the zone than White on defense, but when we're on offense, White will stretch the d and Battles roll Will be to get out in transition, or in the half-court, penetrate and create. He will not thrive in the half-court by chucking threes.

He's at best our 4th best option from deep.

Yes, this is exactly what I think. And I certainly never said he should or would be chucking three's. He will take open three's and he can make them at a decent clip.

Funny you should mention Battle's "roll"-- it was a typo, you meant to type, "role." In this case, "roll" is perfect because our pick and roll game will be filthy this year.

One other thing about Battle is that we will finally have a great iso player. Our recent teams have been missing that guy. Battle is great off the bounce both in transition and in the half court. Very hard to guard one on one...and in the open court, good luck.
 
Okay. I buy that. I think we pretty much agree with assessment of his game, I just wouldn't call him a pure "2".

He's versatile and I'd rather have him at the top of the zone than White on defense, but when we're on offense, White will stretch the d and Battles roll Will be to get out in transition, or in the half-court, penetrate and create. He will not thrive in the half-court by chucking threes.

He's at best our 4th best option from deep.
Yes, this is exactly what I think. And I certainly never said he should or would be chucking three's. He will take open three's and he can make them at a decent clip.

Funny you should mention Battle's "roll"-- it was a typo, you meant to type, "role." In this case, "roll" is perfect because our pick and roll game will be filthy this year.

One other thing about Battle is that we will finally have a great iso player. Our recent teams have been missing that guy. Battle is great off the bounce both in transition and in the half court. Very hard to guard one on one...and in the open court, good luck.
This team is going to be really fun to watch in February, after all the guys figure out their roles. It is great to hear that they are already starting to fit together, and that will only get better. If you are an opposing defense, who do you double off of if Battle, Howard or Gillon drive? Do you leave White or Lydon open at the three point line? Do you leave Roberson or Chukwu who will roll to the basket? Crazy options, I can't wait.
 
This team is going to be really fun to watch in February, after all the guys figure out their roles. It is great to hear that they are already starting to fit together, and that will only get better. If you are an opposing defense, who do you double off of if Battle, Howard or Gillon drive? Do you leave White or Lydon open at the three point line? Do you leave Roberson or Chukwu who will roll to the basket? Crazy options, I can't wait.

It'll be scary watching Chukwu on the receiving end of the pick and roll. Could be scary good or scary bad. Sure, it'll be great watching that giant throw down lobs but if he ever has to put the ball on the floor...uh...no.
 
It'll be scary watching Chukwu on the receiving end of the pick and roll. Could be scary good or scary bad. Sure, it'll be great watching that giant throw down lobs but if he ever has to put the ball on the floor...uh...no.
Yeah, that's where the guards have to be smart enough to get it to him in the right spots. I just hope he is aggressive and tries to throw everything down. The first time he gets blocked by some 6'5" dude because he tries to finesse the shot, I want him pulled and we will go "small" with Lydon at the center. Because if he is going to play small, we might as well go with the our 5 best. I know we have Coleman as well, but the same goes for him, if our big guys don't play tough then we have the luxury of pulling them. And, we are deep enough that they can play like big guys and enforce the middle and go for blocks and rebounds without fear of fouling.
 
Okay. I buy that. I think we pretty much agree with assessment of his game, I just wouldn't call him a pure "2".

He's versatile and I'd rather have him at the top of the zone than White on defense, but when we're on offense, White will stretch the d and Battles roll Will be to get out in transition, or in the half-court, penetrate and create. He will not thrive in the half-court by chucking threes.

He's at best our 4th best option from deep.

Agree with all of that.

I think both you and Iommi nailed it. Re: Battle's threes--the nice part about him being the fourth best option is that he doesn't have to take them, and he can pick his spots. Much like CJ in 2013. Now, I'm not expecting Battle to shoot ~49% from three like CJ did that year, but as a complimentary threat? I could definitely seeing him being a respectable 35% shooter, as that fourth guy.
 
Everyone seems to be assuming that we should see what the opposition is doing before making our lineup. For most every opponent all we need to do is decide how we want to play and let them adjust to us. We will usually have superior talent.
 
I've been saying this since last February, he is Larry Bird (and no, not because he is white): same height, same frame, same speed, same skill-set, similar shooting style...right down to the cheesy mustache. If he can develop his dribble a little bit more, he will be right there.

did Bird ever play C for long stretches at Indiana State? I think Tyler is even more athletic than Larry, and he has the same competitive fire, but he probably will never achieve the court vision and handle of Larry.
 
Bird and Lydon have completely different personalities; Bird was hype-aggressive. In crunch time he had no problem being a ball hog. His one-on-one battles with Dominique Wilkins were classic. The rest of both teams would essentially step aside and watch. Comparing Lydon to Bird is apples and oranges. Lydon only drives when he has an opening in which case he goes straight down the lane from the foul line to the hoop. Bird forced the action and created at will.
 
AlaskaSU said:
Bird and Lydon have completely different personalities; Bird was hype-aggressive. In crunch time he had no problem being a ball hog. His one-on-one battles with Dominique Wilkins were classic. The rest of both teams would essentially step aside and watch. Comparing Lydon to Bird is apples and oranges. Lydon only drives when he has an opening in which case he goes straight down the lane from the foul line to the hoop. Bird forced the action and created at will.
Speaking of apples to oranges, you just compared the aggressiveness of a freshman to a mid-career NBA star.
 
It'll be scary watching Chukwu on the receiving end of the pick and roll. Could be scary good or scary bad. Sure, it'll be great watching that giant throw down lobs but if he ever has to put the ball on the floor...uh...no.

Pick and rolls should be run with Lydon as the screener 90% of the time, because defenses actually have to defend him honestly. Running it with Coleman or Chukwu or Roberson is essentially a waste of time.
 
I agree that Battle is an elite slasher and defender but the notion that Battle isn't a good shooter is just plain wrong. It's not his strength but it's not a negative.

He has a ankle breaking pull up jumper. I don't think him shooting 3's will really matter. He will be our leader scorer because of volume and speed of making 2s.
 
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Am I the only one who hates how every thread like this devolves into an argument about who the starting five is going to be?

Yes, you are the only one who hates. The starting five discussion is fun.
 
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It'll be scary watching Chukwu on the receiving end of the pick and roll. Could be scary good or scary bad. Sure, it'll be great watching that giant throw down lobs but if he ever has to put the ball on the floor...uh...no.

I'm more interested in seeing a 5'11" guard driving to the rim and Chukwu starring the guy down with his arms reaching up to 10'. It's kind of something obscene to experience for the guard. I just can't wait to see it!
 

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