Class of 2015 Killing It

[javadoc]

The staff is killing it.

I'm not talking about whether they are "reeling in" blue chip stud prospects. If you don't trust the coaches' evaluations about who can help the program right now, and who can realistically be signed, then go on kvetching. Their jobs are on the line, blah blah.

A couple months ago the angst was about how few commits we had. Since then, BOOM! When was the last time we had 15+ commits going into camp season?

I think the evidence now suggests that this is a very good recruiting staff, and the only thing holding them back is the school's recent brand. These guys can get the attention of anyone who isn't a "factory snob", and can close. I am eager to see what happens with our recruits for the remainder of the process. I hope we are fighting off FSU, Miami, Penn St, and ND.

Recruiting is so much fun again, and on a realistic track.

 

[Bambrewer]

I will say this one of the things they stressed to us was they aren't taking any kids that have a sense of entitlement. If the kids come across with a what are you going to do for me above what you are doing for them attitude ... The staff won't take them.

I will also say I have seen a bunch of the 4 and 5 star kids and the entitlement is poring out of some of them. From the kid at rivals needing a back rub on the sideline from his entourage every time he ran a drill. To the kids in miami that tweeted the picture saying thank you Rick Ross if they ain't paying we ain't playing and we ain't signing till the pockets are full. The kid at bc that would even say hello when he was introduced to us. Their is a lot of kids whose coaches and parents have filled their heads with crap. They go to the fsu ohio etc and those coaches pump their tires and then come to a school that tells it like it is... Like syracuse does.

You will have a very hard time getting any of the 4 and 5 star kids. Now in sure not all of them are like that but like I aside I've probably met 30 of them and when I go to these camps I search them out to watch and compare shy to them. I've said before on quite a few... I'm not impressed... Hell there is a kid on Lowell that is shys teammate that doesn't have a single offer but is better than most of the 4 and 5 star kids.

Those kids have a coach that knows a coach or knows a guy that runs a camp. A lot of these kids the coach is at the camp high fiving the evaluator an hour before camp and are sitting up with them pointing his kid out. It's a big who knows who gets 5 stars game.

And after talking to the staff I would rather watch a team that scratches and fights to the top. Id rather a bunch of hardnosed guys smashing skulls than a fractured team of I'm better than yous. As hcss said entitlement is a cancer and it's a cancer I don't want near my team. But you may never get those big time guys... They want to be your cancer

 

[Rocco]

I love the way this staff recruits. They find the kids they want early on and start stacking that foundation up quickly. Shafer is over-the-top with his coaches that it is 110% about relationships. Understand the player, his situation, what motivates them, what worries them, get to know the parents/guardians, their worries, etc. This trumps any flashy jersey, facility or recent success/failures on the field. The kids who only care about the material stuff or who are selfish will be passed on by this staff.

Once the well of 3 & 4 star kids starts drying up towards next Nov/Dec, that's when the bigger-name schools start going after our commits (we held off several aggressive schools right near NSD just this past February). Keeping our verbals solid is a huge task at hand for our staff, and I'm fairly bullish they will bitchslap that task with Shafer leading the charge.

love it right now.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I will say this one of the things they stressed to us was they aren't taking any kids that have a sense of entitlement. If the kids come across with a what are you going to do for me above what you are doing for them attitude ... The staff won't take them.

I will also say I have seen a bunch of the 4 and 5 star kids and the entitlement is poring out of some of them. From the kid at rivals needing a back rub on the sideline from his entourage every time he ran a drill. To the kids in miami that tweeted the picture saying thank you Rick Ross if they ain't paying we ain't playing and we ain't signing till the pockets are full. The kid at bc that would even say hello when he was introduced to us. Their is a lot of kids whose coaches and parents have filled their heads with crap. They go to the fsu ohio etc and those coaches pump their tires and then come to a school that tells it like it is... Like syracuse does.

You will have a very hard time getting any of the 4 and 5 star kids. Now in sure not all of them are like that but like I aside I've probably met 30 of them and when I go to these camps I search them out to watch and compare shy to them. I've said before on quite a few... I'm not impressed... Hell there is a kid on Lowell that is shys teammate that doesn't have a single offer but is better than most of the 4 and 5 star kids.

Those kids have a coach that knows a coach or knows a guy that runs a camp. A lot of these kids the coach is at the camp high fiving the evaluator an hour before camp and are sitting up with them pointing his kid out. It's a big who knows who gets 5 stars game.

And after talking to the staff I would rather watch a team that scratches and fights to the top. Id rather a bunch of hardnosed guys smashing skulls than a fractured team of I'm better than yous. As hcss said entitlement is a cancer and it's a cancer I don't want near my team. But you may never get those big time guys... They want to be your cancer

Agree 100%, Syracuse football and a bunch of 4 and 5 star kids will never happen. This is how we recruit and always have for the most part In addition, its also what and where these kids will be 2-3 years from now, sure it's great to have a few true frosh play but I think this is the right formula for Syracuse, always has been and in all seriousness it's the only one that will work. I am sure we will battle it out for the last 4-5 kids who have multiple BCS offers, we will win and lose a few, but the bulk of the program will be built with grinders and you know, I like that.

Like I said, I love Shafer, I believe he is recruiting well but we will be able to determine that in 2-3 years as we are still and always will be a developmental program. Now if he isn't winning 7-8 games with these kids on consistent basis, everyone will point to recruiting. It is was happened with marrone as well after his 3rd year, vicious circle really. The tide turns very quickly.

 

[Upstate]

It's pretty rare to see a coaching staff practicing what they preach. Happy to see SU's holding up that principle.

 

[TheCusian]

I will say this one of the things they stressed to us was they aren't taking any kids that have a sense of entitlement. If the kids come across with a what are you going to do for me above what you are doing for them attitude ... The staff won't take them. I will also say I have seen a bunch of the 4 and 5 star kids and the entitlement is poring out of some of them. From the kid at rivals needing a back rub on the sideline from his entourage every time he ran a drill. To the kids in miami that tweeted the picture saying thank you Rick Ross if they ain't paying we ain't playing and we ain't signing till the pockets are full. The kid at bc that would even say hello when he was introduced to us. Their is a lot of kids whose coaches and parents have filled their heads with crap. They go to the fsu ohio etc and those coaches pump their tires and then come to a school that tells it like it is... Like syracuse does. You will have a very hard time getting any of the 4 and 5 star kids. Now in sure not all of them are like that but like I aside I've probably met 30 of them and when I go to these camps I search them out to watch and compare shy to them. I've said before on quite a few... I'm not impressed... Hell there is a kid on Lowell that is shys teammate that doesn't have a single offer but is better than most of the 4 and 5 star kids. Those kids have a coach that knows a coach or knows a guy that runs a camp. A lot of these kids the coach is at the camp high fiving the evaluator an hour before camp and are sitting up with them pointing his kid out. It's a big who knows who gets 5 stars game. And after talking to the staff I would rather watch a team that scratches and fights to the top. Id rather a bunch of hardnosed guys smashing skulls than a fractured team of I'm better than yous. As hcss said entitlement is a cancer and it's a cancer I don't want near my team. But you may never get those big time guys... They want to be your cancer

Now that you say that - I'm not sure we've taken a kid with a sense of entitlement in the last two years (as far as we can tell as fans).

I love this emphasis. It's kind of the Spurs/Patriots model in a way.

 

[weedsportwarriors]

I will say this one of the things they stressed to us was they aren't taking any kids that have a sense of entitlement. If the kids come across with a what are you going to do for me above what you are doing for them attitude ... The staff won't take them.

I will also say I have seen a bunch of the 4 and 5 star kids and the entitlement is poring out of some of them. From the kid at rivals needing a back rub on the sideline from his entourage every time he ran a drill. To the kids in miami that tweeted the picture saying thank you Rick Ross if they ain't paying we ain't playing and we ain't signing till the pockets are full. The kid at bc that would even say hello when he was introduced to us. Their is a lot of kids whose coaches and parents have filled their heads with crap. They go to the fsu ohio etc and those coaches pump their tires and then come to a school that tells it like it is... Like syracuse does.

You will have a very hard time getting any of the 4 and 5 star kids. Now in sure not all of them are like that but like I aside I've probably met 30 of them and when I go to these camps I search them out to watch and compare shy to them. I've said before on quite a few... I'm not impressed... Hell there is a kid on Lowell that is shys teammate that doesn't have a single offer but is better than most of the 4 and 5 star kids.

Those kids have a coach that knows a coach or knows a guy that runs a camp. A lot of these kids the coach is at the camp high fiving the evaluator an hour before camp and are sitting up with them pointing his kid out. It's a big who knows who gets 5 stars game.

And after talking to the staff I would rather watch a team that scratches and fights to the top. Id rather a bunch of hardnosed guys smashing skulls than a fractured team of I'm better than yous. As hcss said entitlement is a cancer and it's a cancer I don't want near my team. But you may never get those big time guys... They want to be your cancer

You need to get his film to the coaches. If he is good then maybe he will want to come to SU as well.

 

[CuseOnly]

Agree 100%, Syracuse football and a bunch of 4 and 5 star kids will never happen. This is how we recruit and always have for the most part In addition, its also what and where these kids will be 2-3 years from now, sure it's great to have a few true frosh play but I think this is the right formula for Syracuse, always has been and in all seriousness it's the only one that will work. I am sure we will battle it out for the last 4-5 kids who have multiple BCS offers, we will win and lose a few, but the bulk of the program will be built with grinders and you know, I like that.

Like I said, I love Shafer, I believe he is recruiting well but we will be able to determine that in 2-3 years as we are still and always will be a developmental program. Now if he isn't winning 7-8 games with these kids on consistent basis, everyone will point to recruiting. It is was happened with marrone as well after his 3rd year, vicious circle really. The tide turns very quickly.

I disagree that the 4-5 star kids will never happen, I agree with the "bunch" part that we will not have tons of them. I think in a few years that kids, coaches and parents will recognize that Shafer is a coach that can make kids better and push them to get a great education. I do believe that if a 4-5 star kid has a sense of entitlement or an ego, they will never be recruited or offered by this staff.

 

[Bambrewer]

You need to get his film to the coaches. If he is good then maybe he will want to come to SU as well.

He was at the camp with Shy... Coach Shafer spoke with him. actually 5 of Shys teammates made the trip up. Nic is probably the most technically sound football player you will meet. This off season he has run the 40 in 4.47 but at camp he ran slow...4.60. He is a 200 lb monster... I have two reasons Nic isnt getting offers 1. is he is very stiff... I just paid a personnel trainer that Shy works with to start training Nic also they start tomorrow. It is at Velocity and they do great things with identifying weakness and stiff parts and straightening and loosening. Second is Nic will square to a player wrap him up and set him down...no pop. I remember sitting in BC and reading the board of what they want in players who blow people up...hard hits...exciting. That hasnt been Nic in the past. Nic will start traing with Shy and I in the park this week and will we be going over how to become more exciting and how to make the play but blow people up. He has some real interest from Duke and is like a 3.8 gpa student so offers will come just need to try and help him get there quicker. I expect his senior highlights to be much better than past...his highlights are posted in the camp thread if you want to see them.

 

[CuseLegacy]

The staff is killing it.

I'm not talking about whether they are "reeling in" blue chip stud prospects. If you don't trust the coaches' evaluations about who can help the program right now, and who can realistically be signed, then go on kvetching. Their jobs are on the line, blah blah.

A couple months ago the angst was about how few commits we had. Since then, BOOM! When was the last time we had 15+ commits going into camp season?

I think the evidence now suggests that this is a very good recruiting staff, and the only thing holding them back is the school's recent brand. These guys can get the attention of anyone who isn't a "factory snob", and can close. I am eager to see what happens with our recruits for the remainder of the process. I hope we are fighting off FSU, Miami, Penn St, and ND.

Recruiting is so much fun again, and on a realistic track.

There is also another element of recruiting that is exciting... the next class. There are already over 30 offerees in the 2016 data base on this site. Bam mentioned yesterday in the Dino thread, y'all were focused on food, that they are taking their official in December. He told me that this is the time frame that the staff is looking at for all officials as the IPF will be completed. That gives me hope that this will also provide the staff with the opportunity and time to have a real Junior Day during BB season.

 

[Bambrewer]

I disagree that the 4-5 star kids will never happen, I agree with the "bunch" part that we will not have tons of them. I think in a few years that kids, coaches and parents will recognize that Shafer is a coach that can make kids better and push them to get a great education. I do believe that if a 4-5 star kid has a sense of entitlement or an ego, they will never be recruited or offered by this staff.

the problem with that is those 4 and 5 star kids have been on tour for 2 3 years...if I had know how this game works Id have had shy on the camp tour freshman year. It is a problem because these kids that get the 4 and 5 stars are so pumped up from the media coverage and camps telling them they are great... and their families looking at this as a meal ticket for them. When I tell you they show up with an entourage im not kidding they could rival Mc Hammer in the 90s. these kids are so arrogant its painful. When they show up at a school like syracuse and the coach tells them they will get a scholarship and a chance ... and they are asking for the 2nd year apartments to come play... the staff isnt going to hear them. The factories will be throwing them that crap and they will be signing there. Syracuses best shot will be a big star kid of an alum or one of maybe 2 kids I have met with a line of stars and a desire to get educated not play nfl.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I disagree that the 4-5 star kids will never happen, I agree with the "bunch" part that we will not have tons of them. I think in a few years that kids, coaches and parents will recognize that Shafer is a coach that can make kids better and push them to get a great education. I do believe that if a 4-5 star kid has a sense of entitlement or an ego, they will never be recruited or offered by this staff.

Not buying it. 4-5 a year won't happen

 

[weedsportwarriors]

He was at the camp with Shy... Coach Shafer spoke with him. actually 5 of Shys teammates made the trip up. Nic is probably the most technically sound football player you will meet. This off season he has run the 40 in 4.47 but at camp he ran slow...4.60. He is a 200 lb monster... I have two reasons Nic isnt getting offers 1. is he is very stiff... I just paid a personnel trainer that Shy works with to start training Nic also they start tomorrow. It is at Velocity and they do great things with identifying weakness and stiff parts and straightening and loosening. Second is Nic will square to a player wrap him up and set him down...no pop. I remember sitting in BC and reading the board of what they want in players who blow people up...hard hits...exciting. That hasnt been Nic in the past. Nic will start traing with Shy and I in the park this week and will we be going over how to become more exciting and how to make the play but blow people up. He has some real interest from Duke and is like a 3.8 gpa student so offers will come just need to try and help him get there quicker. I expect his senior highlights to be much better than past...his highlights are posted in the camp thread if you want to see them.

Thanks, that is great that you and Shy are helping him out to make him a better player. It sounds like he is very open to learning and taking in what will make him and his team better. Hopefully it will make him more attractive to the D1 schools and you and Shy will be able to keep him interested in SU.

 

[anglerman]

Stop with the Star BS. Because a kid is 4 star doesn't mean he's a good player. SU has gotten many and they have ended up dissapointments Examples are Alvin collier and Lavar lobdell and I can name many more. They are recruiting good players with good character and work ethic That's what you need to be successful There's many schools full of 4 and 5 star players that have not been all that successful with Notre Dame, USC and Texas being prime examples You can be great with good to very good players and that's what coach Shafer is trying to accomplish.

 

[SmilinBob]

It depends on who the staff identifies as their #1 targets per position and if they can get those kids to come to SU. If they are 3-4-5 or even 2 star/unranked kids that not too many people know about it doesn't matter as it seems the staff has certain qualities they want to see out of these young men. Once they start to get a high percentage of #1 targets then we know for sure that we have quite the recruiting thing going on up on the hill. I'm curious to see how they did this year on that.

They talk to coaches, parents/teachers and the like and do their research pretty darn well and there is no doubt that many other schools watch and offer after SU does because of that. This year is filling the needs for kids leaving and the talent and athleticism along with passion has been getting better and better each year.

That said because of the talent they have had verbal for 2015, it is going to be a helluva battle to keep them when February rolls around which is why having that early signing period is huge for SU, this staff does their homework and other cheat off of it. Some will come in with glitz and whisper promises and if last year is any kind of barometer this staff knows how to fend that BS off pretty well.

 

[rrlbees]

Stop with the Star BS. Because a kid is 4 star doesn't mean he's a good player. SU has gotten many and they have ended up dissapointments Examples are Alvin collier and Lavar lobdell and I can name many more. They are recruiting good players with good character and work ethic That's what you need to be successful There's many schools full of 4 and 5 star players that have not been all that successful with Notre Dame, USC and Texas being prime examples You can be great with good to very good players and that's what coach Shafer is trying to accomplish.

Exaggeration.

You can be good to very good without 4-5 star players but you can't be great. Regardless of what you think of the rating services or how kids are rated, in the end the great teams have many 4-5 star players. Some do fail just like some 2 stars become studs. But the math proves you wrong. We can stay a school of 2-3 star kids and HCSS will do very well with them. But we'll remain a 7 win type program, maybe 8 at times. If you want a consistent 9+ win great program, we will need to eventually bringing those types players in.

Btw, over the last 10 years, compare our record with ND, USC and Texas.

 

[Cuse_Albs]

Exaggeration.

You can be good to very good without 4-5 star players but you can't be great. Regardless of what you think of the rating services or how kids are rated, in the end the great teams have many 4-5 star players. Some do fail just like some 2 stars become studs. But the math proves you wrong. We can stay a school of 2-3 star kids and HCSS will do very well with them. But we'll remain a 7 win type program, maybe 8 at times. If you want a consistent 9+ win great program, we will need to eventually bringing those types players in.

Btw, over the last 10 years, compare our record with ND, USC and Texas.

I agree with the notion that we need talent but 4 and 5 stars don't equal success, its not that simple. Florida this year had over 50% 4 and 5 star players on their roster, and they lost 7 straight games and one to the mighty Georgia Southern Eagles who I'm damn sure don't have one 4 or 5 star on their roster. I think it's about the ceiling that these players have and how the coaches cultivate the talent that they recruit once they're on the hill, not the talent that they had in high school. And Syracuse has shown in the last 5 years that we are pretty good at turning nobodies into draft picks, and successful NFL players.

 

[CIL]

Exaggeration.

You can be good to very good without 4-5 star players but you can't be great. Regardless of what you think of the rating services or how kids are rated, in the end the great teams have many 4-5 star players. Some do fail just like some 2 stars become studs. But the math proves you wrong. We can stay a school of 2-3 star kids and HCSS will do very well with them. But we'll remain a 7 win type program, maybe 8 at times. If you want a consistent 9+ win great program, we will need to eventually bringing those types players in.

Btw, over the last 10 years, compare our record with ND, USC and Texas.

Kind of a chicken and egg argument. The truth is closer to the more stars equals more wins that bees sites, but that would be oversimplification of a complex discussion.

USC, Florida St, etc typically win because they have the best players. However, humans bias with rating services absolutely exists. To say otherwise would be silly. Baylors earlier recruiting classes weren't exactly top 25 until they entered the top 25. Now look at their rankings - I'm not so sure these kids are better per say, but the classes are ranked higher.

 

[Nick44]

Exaggeration.

You can be good to very good without 4-5 star players but you can't be great. Regardless of what you think of the rating services or how kids are rated, in the end the great teams have many 4-5 star players. Some do fail just like some 2 stars become studs. But the math proves you wrong. We can stay a school of 2-3 star kids and HCSS will do very well with them. But we'll remain a 7 win type program, maybe 8 at times. If you want a consistent 9+ win great program, we will need to eventually bringing those types players in.

Btw, over the last 10 years, compare our record with ND, USC and Texas.

While much of this is true, you are also forgetting the TCU/BSU/Baylor formula for success. Those schools brought in very few blue chips but found players that fit there systems.

I think much can be said for how Virginia tech has stayed consistent. While we all despise Beamer, his recruiting classes are loaded with solid players that fit his system and the occasional 4-5 star talent.

 

[Van111]

I disagree that the 4-5 star kids will never happen, I agree with the "bunch" part that we will not have tons of them. I think in a few years that kids, coaches and parents will recognize that Shafer is a coach that can make kids better and push them to get a great education. I do believe that if a 4-5 star kid has a sense of entitlement or an ego, they will never be recruited or offered by this staff.

Agreed. if we return to be a perineal top 25 team again down the road, then these so-called 2-3 star kids we have been getting will get a boost in ratings, like I believe the kids get on teams like Bama and USC and schools like that. I love the mid range kids, but some will start getting rated a little higher if we keep progressing. How that effects our recruiting down the road is a little concern, as we already are the first ones in early on some talented kids only to have the sharks come after them once we identify them. ND is notorious for stealing talent and with Kelly they have become better at it.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

If you look at the previous seven years it is really hard to believe that we are a week away from July and we already have verbals from 15 guys. The closest we came before was the 11 players who verballed before July 1 in the Class of 2012. Otherwise you are looking at:

Class of 2014 - 7
Class of 2013 - 5
Class of 2011 - 8
Class of 2010 - 5
Class of 2009 - 0
Class of 2008 - 5

Now it's true many of our guys haven't been rewarded by a bunch of stars at this stage, but again if you look at the recent past we should be looking at reevaluations later this summer and fall after camps, new offers and senior year play enlarge the "data base" on which the so-called experts base their judgments. My guess is that many of the guys who are currently NR or 2 stars will move up and one or two 3-star kids will be awarded a 4th star by December. Then again, if that doesn't happen I still will put my faith in this coaching staff to know their business better that a bunch of internet "experts."

 

[SoBristol]

Sure -- as many have said the rating system isn't perfect. We have lots of examples of kids who committed early, had all the talent, but not the ratings. Pugh, Nassib, Williams, Chandler Jones are examples. Some of the 4 stars who fell to us might have had issues. And then many of our more highly rated recruits like Doug Hogue, Brisley Estime, Ashton Broyld, Deleone Carter proved out. Need to sprinkle your starting skill positions, DEs, OLBs and DBs with 3 stars, or you might as well play in the MAC.

Whatever the rating system, we need to win more recruiting battles for the talented prospects if we expect to win 8 or 9 games. We just do.

 

[SoBristol]

If you look at the previous seven years it is really hard to believe that we are a week away from July and we already have verbals from 15 guys. The closest we came before was the 11 players who verballed before July 1 in the Class of 2012. Otherwise you are looking at:

Class of 2014 - 7
Class of 2013 - 5
Class of 2011 - 8
Class of 2010 - 5
Class of 2009 - 0
Class of 2008 - 5

..."

The commit numbers for the 2009 class are distorted (Greg R's last year -- we had commits who opted out or were not retained when Marrone was hired), but the point is valid. 2013 is distorted for similar reasons -- we lost 2 or 3 commits when Marrone left.

The pattern shows that as a head coach and staff settle in, and have some success, the early recruiting goes up. Marrone worked up to his 2012 success. Shafer has found his stride in his second full cycle. He has built a staff that is good at this.

 

[SmilinBob]

Evaluation is the key. SU isn't in a recruiting hotbed like Texas or California and fortunately they often play in Florida so that helps but they have to mine harder being in the northeast until they can get kids to go to Syracuse instead of PSU. As SS said, we have to get 40+ in the dome as well to help this staff recruit and I know I'm preaching to the choir but that part we ourselves can control.

 

[rrlbees]

While much of this is true, you are also forgetting the TCU/BSU/Baylor formula for success. Those schools brought in very few blue chips but found players that fit there systems. I think much can be said for how Virginia tech has stayed consistent. While we all despise Beamer, his recruiting classes are loaded with solid players that fit his system and the occasional 4-5 star talent.

Nothing is ever exact. But generally speaking. The point of my original comment was about the word great.