Manager in Need of Advice

[OttoinGrotto]

Loyalty is tough these days, mostly due to what OiG posted about a page or two ago. When I move around within the university, I'm guaranteed a 10-15% bump. I've stayed in departments far too long out of loyalty. Only taken promotions when it was going to benefit my current department. My loyalty (among other things) has helped give me a good reputation around campus, which I value.

A colleague of mine, started a year or so before me, has move departments every couple years. She's making a good bit more than me now, and has taken zero hit to her reputation on campus. (She's great at what she does, I mean more that there's no "oh don't hire her, she'll be gone in a year or two").

I just made a move that I should have made almost two years ago. Got my bump, I'm surrounded by some great people, normalish work weeks, I've never been happier. I'm not saying I'm going to jump ship every few years, but I don't think I'm going to just suck it up and deal with crap situations anymore.

I have definitely been guilty of sticking around too long trying to make things better or situations work that just weren't going to improve.

There are obviously circumstances that are nuanced everywhere. Sounds like those moves happened within the same org - while this person I speak of is going from org to org.

It is a different world now - I guess I am of the opinion that if you don’t stay at least 2-3 years at a place, what value did you bring and why are you moving? Because after a year, how would you know what you have? It takes a good while to get onboarded at a new place of business.

Just my thoughts. I should probably adjust to the times - but there are a lot of factors that come into play as you get older,

I'm 100% with you that a person usually needs some tenure to really make an impact. A lot of cases, you don't even really understand what you're doing the first 6-12 months.

Recruiting wise, I think they view the benefit to the candidate in a short time frame as the more important index than what they actually accomplished on behalf of the organization during that time.

It is weird.

 

[RF2044]

Loyalty is great, but it isn't always a two-way street. I remember reading a study a couple of years back [Richard Boyatzis?] that ran counter to the mainstream thinking about staying at one company. The study found that people who jumped had quicker upward mobility and made more money relative to employees who tried to ascend the ladder within one company. That surprised me, but it was also rooted in old-school biases about having fewer jobs, the perceived valence of staying with one company as an indicator of "success," etc.

Times have changed. People's ability to work remotely and not be locked into working for "local" companies near them has unlocked exponentially more opportunities.

And at the end of the day, I believe that the path of job hopping is important. I.E., if I see a trend of upward mobility, even if the duration of the jobs are fairly short [i.e., 1+ year minimum], then I view that as indicative of the candidate's capabilities. If I see someone making lateral moves of similarly short durations, there's an attribution I make about their ability to play well with others.

That has to be balanced against the "cost" involved in identifying / hiring a good candidate, and then waiting for them to ramp up to a level of productivity when they arrive. Nothing worse than going through all of the challenge of bringing somebody in, giving them time to get their sea legs, and then having them bail before any value proposition gets fully actualized.

 

[upperdeck]

what gets me is when we hire someone with less experience and skills to replace someone and the new person is getting paid more than the people who do the same job and have stayed here..

my kid is about 3 yrs in.. he was told he would get a raise after he got some more experience.. the time came and gone and he was told no money for a raise.. so with virtual work now so easy to find he started looking just got a new job offer, broke the news to his manager who he liked. The first comment was can we match the offer for you to stay.. So they had no money, but they do when this happens?

he just laughed at the managers comments because he said i dont think you will match the number. the manager said we can give you a bump of like 10-20% how much did they offer and he told them they gave him 400%..

wish i had started when this money was floating around.. paying low level programmers this much money is insane.

 

[Cusefan0307]

what gets me is when we hire someone with less experience and skills to replace someone and the new person is getting paid more than the people who do the same job and have stayed here..

my kid is about 3 yrs in.. he was told he would get a raise after he got some more experience.. the time came and gone and he was told no money for a raise.. so with virtual work now so easy to find he started looking just got a new job offer, broke the news to his manager who he liked. The first comment was can we match the offer for you to stay.. So they had no money, but they do when this happens?

he just laughed at the managers comments because he said i dont think you will match the number. the manager said we can give you a bump of like 10-20% how much did they offer and he told them they gave him 400%..

wish i had started when this money was floating around.. paying low level programmers this much money is insane.

People off the street always get more money than people who get promoted internally. That's why people leave companies and that's why I left my last one.

 

[Cusefan0307]

As someone who manages a lot of people I really don't blame people for leaving. If they move to a better role and can make more money I think of that as a success for me. Right now our team is extremely short staffed due to leadership pinching pennies and people at their breaking point. With the current job market being as good as it is there's lot of opportunities for employees to make more money. If you're not looking elsewhere you're not doing what is best for your career.

 

[SUFan44]

As someone who manages a lot of people I really don't blame people for leaving. If they move to a better role and can make more money I think of that as a success for me. Right now our team is extremely short staffed due to leadership pinching pennies and people at their breaking point. With the current job market being as good as it is there's lot of opportunities for employees to make more money. If you're not looking elsewhere you're not doing what is best for your career.

I get all that. I’m not saying that I’m not looking also - unless you’re a senior level director, I think it would be foolish not to look.

I just don’t agree with changing jobs with less than a year at an organization. I don’t think that’s a healthy way to go about business - but I guess you have to be selfish if the opportunity presents itself.

For the record, the subject that is now on his third job in less than a year left the first (my company) for a position that was a lesser role at a comparable company for a bit more money. It worked out for him, but I question how long it will take for him to get frustrated and annoyed with his new organization and looks elsewhere again.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I get all that. I’m not saying that I’m not looking also - unless you’re a senior level director, I think it would be foolish not to look.

I just don’t agree with changing jobs with less than a year at an organization. I don’t think that’s a healthy way to go about business - but I guess you have to be selfish if the opportunity presents itself.

For the record, the subject that is now on his third job in less than a year left the first (my company) for a position that was a lesser role at a comparable company for a bit more money. It worked out for him, but I question how long it will take for him to get frustrated and annoyed with his new organization and looks elsewhere again.

I agree entirely. I wouldn't hire that person, but in the current labor shortage I know some managers/employers are just looking to get bodies in the door and I'm sure there's people like the person you mentioned taking advantage of it. It's certainly not great for an employee long term from a networking perspective.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

what gets me is when we hire someone with less experience and skills to replace someone and the new person is getting paid more than the people who do the same job and have stayed here..

my kid is about 3 yrs in.. he was told he would get a raise after he got some more experience.. the time came and gone and he was told no money for a raise.. so with virtual work now so easy to find he started looking just got a new job offer, broke the news to his manager who he liked. The first comment was can we match the offer for you to stay.. So they had no money, but they do when this happens?

he just laughed at the managers comments because he said i dont think you will match the number. the manager said we can give you a bump of like 10-20% how much did they offer and he told them they gave him 400%..

wish i had started when this money was floating around.. paying low level programmers this much money is insane.

It's extremely dumb and a glaring market inefficiency that so few companies will retain employees through salary increases that they would receive by leaving.

 

[upperdeck]

It's extremely dumb and a glaring market inefficiency that so few companies will retain employees through salary increases that they would receive by leaving.

these companies end up replacing lost employees for more money than the ones who left.. but if churn is that high cost stays lower.. though quality of work done and training often eats at the savings they claim to be making..

im too old to be jumping around.. but 10-15 years ago i would probably be doing it now.

 

[rocklloyd]

As someone who manages a lot of people I really don't blame people for leaving. If they move to a better role and can make more money I think of that as a success for me. Right now our team is extremely short staffed due to leadership pinching pennies and people at their breaking point. With the current job market being as good as it is there's lot of opportunities for employees to make more money. If you're not looking elsewhere you're not doing what is best for your career.

we must work at the same company

 

[CuseFaninVT]

There are obviously circumstances that are nuanced everywhere. Sounds like those moves happened within the same org - while this person I speak of is going from org to org.

It is a different world now - I guess I am of the opinion that if you don’t stay at least 2-3 years at a place, what value did you bring and why are you moving? Because after a year, how would you know what you have? It takes a good while to get onboarded at a new place of business.

Just my thoughts. I should probably adjust to the times - but there are a lot of factors that come into play as you get older,

I’ve seen far too many companies who like the shiny new things from outside the company as well. Failure to promote from within is a major problem, and one that employees will learn very quickly. I’m almost three years at this job, and if I don’t get a title promotion and raise this year, I’m out.