Michael Carter-Williams

[jgeorge322]

Yeah, its an unfair comparison to Edelin (unless we win it all.)

Billy the Kid can't be understated. The 2003 team was very young and inexperienced and not a championship team and somehow it got a humongous dose of maturity from this freshman PG who barely played until he stepped in and manned the point and settled everyone down... and then they were a real team. And that was what they needed to be a championship team. Billy was huge for that team.

MCW is different. This has been his team all year. And its been a final 4 team all year. (Despite fake fans who are idiots and take a regular season loss or two too seriously ya f ing haters.) Its Mike's team and has been all year. And apart from a couple bad moments Mike has had his team a top 5/10 squad the entire season.

Edelin just enabled an over acheiving team to overacheive and be its best and win the games that mattered. Mike is the reason we've been a top 5 team all year.


Similar results but different situations. I love Billy though great kid and I am happy he is living in Syracuse where he knows we all love him. MCW is a little different though he's a lottery pick who made sure to take us to the Final 4 before he left, Mike should be compared to guys like Donte Green and Melo not Billy, thats how awesome he's been.


BIG LOVE TO BOTH!!!!

Like the post until the strange donte green reference at the end.

 

[creatorsgam]

Like the post until the strange donte green reference at the end.

I assumed it was about NBA potential and being a first-round pick.

 

[CiceroCuse]

MCW wasn't the best player on this year's team. Fair was. MCW had a really up and down season until his play over the last eight games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. Although I have been tough on MCW all year, it has to be put in context. I think he is getting all the grief becaise he is going to be a Top 12 draft choice and we see his flaws on a game to game basis. But when you look at where he was a year ago, and where he is now, you can't help but commend the kid for the improvement. Keep in mind ...... he has more assists in a season than anyone in the history of the program wit hthe exception of The Generals NCAA record setting year. And this is on a team that quite frankly didn't score nearly as much as a typical 'Cuse team does.

Bottom line... ya gotta give the boy his due. He hasn't asked for all the hype and accolades. I think he has grown throughout the year. With that said, MCW, give me 12, 8 and 6 tomorrow and we will be playing on Monday.

 

[Texas Otto]

Absolutley yes! As an entire body of work the regular season was dissappointing, that said however the NCAA tourney play has been outstanding, much more mature in his decision making which has led to way fewer unforced errors. If he keeps it up for two more games he will be spoken of in the same rarified air as Melo IMHO.

 

[CorduroyG]

Absolutley yes! As an entire body of work the regular season was dissappointing, that said however the NCAA tourney play has been outstanding, much more mature in his decision making which has led to way fewer unforced errors. If he keeps it up for two more games he will be spoken of in the same rarified air as Melo IMHO.

if he plays great for 2 more games and we win it all, as far as legacies go theres melo and mcw then everyone else. IMHO

 

[Tobias Funke]

I agree. Although I have been tough on MCW all year, it has to be put in context. I think he is getting all the grief becaise he is going to be a Top 12 draft choice and we see his flaws on a game to game basis. But when you look at where he was a year ago, and where he is now, you can't help but commend the kid for the improvement. Keep in mind ...... he has more assists in a season than anyone in the history of the program wit hthe exception of The Generals NCAA record setting year. And this is on a team that quite frankly didn't score nearly as much as a typical 'Cuse team does.

Bottom line... ya gotta give the boy his due. He hasn't asked for all the hype and accolades. I think he has grown throughout the year. With that said, MCW, give me 12, 8 and 6 tomorrow and we will be playing on Monday.

Bingo! at times MCW failed to meet the expectations that others set before him. That is on them for believeing he was the second coming from day 1. He did struggle at point specifically in our end of year collapse, However, we would have to measure each game of the other guards mentioned with the same attention to detail to truly compare. Billy edelin had his fair share of mistakes on court during that 2003 season.

Consider his career stat line. 9 PPG 3 RPG 3 assists, and 2 turnovers
MCW 12PPG 5RPG 7.7APG and 3 Turnovers

Edelin has MCW beat on one thing, and it is big which is National championships. However, if Cuse were to win, I believe MCW's impact on the season as a whole would be greater than that of Billy, and I absolutley loved Billy.

 

[007]

MCW is still writing his "legacy." I'd prefer to wait for the ink to dry before I judge.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I'm with those who say MCW is still writing his legacy. The legacy has certainly improved with the BET and the FF run. He has certainly moved beyond the Donte Green/James Theus comparisons.

The other person who is substantially positively affected by this run is Triche. Four years of work were almost greatly diminished by a poor team and individual ending slide. The turn around in the BET and FF will greatly improve our perceptions of his era (along with the statistics to back it up).

 

[jdubs30]

I'm with those who say MCW is still writing his legacy. The legacy has certainly improved with the BET and the FF run. He has certainly moved beyond the Donte Green/James Theus comparisons.

The other person who is substantially positively affected by this run is Triche. Four years of work were almost greatly diminished by a poor team and individual ending slide. The turn around in the BET and FF will greatly improve our perceptions of his era (along with the statistics to back it up).

BT has played in arguably the best era of SU basketball. A lot of credit goes to him for that, but he's had some great talent around him the past 4 years.

 

[SUSScuse]

are u for real? no way man. mcw is the best player on a final four team. playing his best ball in the tournament. he dropped a career high 24pts in a sweet 16 game against heavily favored 1 seed Indiana. edelin can't approach any of that.

mcw cemented his legacy as an all time su great with this run. and his regular season wasn't too shabby either.

Better go check those old vids of the first two round games in 2003 and then decide how good Billy played.

 

[IthacaMatt]

are u for real? no way man. mcw is the best player on a final four team. playing his best ball in the tournament. he dropped a career high 24pts in a sweet 16 game against heavily favored 1 seed Indiana. edelin can't approach any of that.

mcw cemented his legacy as an all time su great with this run. and his regular season wasn't too shabby either.

We wouldn't have won the championship in 2003 without a couple great games put up by Billy Edelin in the early rounds, including Okie State, IIRC.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

BT has played in arguably the best era of SU basketball. A lot of credit goes to him for that, but he's had some great talent around him the past 4 years.

Certainly, BT has been around excellent talent. My comment was meant to mean if we had lost to Pitt in the BET and then lost to Cal in the NCAAT the whole BT era would have taken a negative vibe for some time, even though overall, spanning the four years, there would have still been good numbers, the bad ending would have negatively impacted his legacy.

With just a few games left, BTs future legacy is now stellar. This run has meant a lot to his legacy too. With MCW, since he has less games to his name, each game means more.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We wouldn't have won the championship in 2003 without a couple great games put up by Billy Edelin in the early rounds, including Okie State, IIRC.

So glad others here remember the same Billy E that I do.

 

[OrangeDW]

Bingo! at times MCW failed to meet the expectations that others set before him. That is on them for believeing he was the second coming from day 1. He did struggle at point specifically in our end of year collapse, However, we would have to measure each game of the other guards mentioned with the same attention to detail to truly compare. Billy edelin had his fair share of mistakes on court during that 2003 season.

Consider his career stat line. 9 PPG 3 RPG 3 assists, and 2 turnovers
MCW 12PPG 5RPG 7.7APG and 3 Turnovers

Edelin has MCW beat on one thing, and it is big which is National championships. However, if Cuse were to win, I believe MCW's impact on the season as a whole would be greater than that of Billy, and I absolutley loved Billy.

A few things...Edelins per game stats are hurt by coming in the middle of the season. It took him some games to get going. Also, because he was out the first 12 games, he was coming off the bench. Some games he didnt get as much opportunity.

Also, Edelin's shooting % was way better than MCW's.

Third, MCW's biggest advantage over Edelin is defensively. MCW is one of the best defensive guards we've ever had, where Edelin was not an impact player on that end of the court.

 

[OrangeDW]

In the Boeheim era top PG's:

1. Pearl
2. Sherman
3. GMac
4. MCW
5. Hart
6. Sims
7. Flynn
8. Autry

Sherman
Pearl
Flynn
GMac
MCW
Autry
Hart
Sims

 

[jdubs30]

Sherman
Pearl
Flynn
GMac
MCW
Autry
Hart
Sims

What is this based on?
If it's what he did while he was here, how is Flynn ahead of GMac?
If it's what his ability, how is GMach ahead of MCW?

Or are you just listing them?

 

[Tobias Funke]

A few things...Edelins per game stats are hurt by coming in the middle of the season. It took him some games to get going. Also, because he was out the first 12 games, he was coming off the bench. Some games he didnt get as much opportunity.

Also, Edelin's shooting % was way better than MCW's.

Third, MCW's biggest advantage over Edelin is defensively. MCW is one of the best defensive guards we've ever had, where Edelin was not an impact player on that end of the court.

The stats listed or Edelin were career stats thus it does not really matter that he was 12 games late to the party. I did that purposely as I felt it important to show Billy's complete impact. I I'll give you shooting percentage, but MCW is directly tied to many more points per game both through points and assists. Finally the point we to gauge someone's legacy. If we take the bad wit MCw we have to with Billy and that includes his suspension, and his time to get up to speed. Not discounting his contributions just trying to offer comparisons

 

[anomander]

Sherman
Pearl
Flynn
GMac
MCW
Autry
Hart
Sims

No way Flynn is that high. Played 2 years didn't make NCAA tournament in 1 of those. Questionable defense, especially in zone and shot way too much. Most of all his teams didn't do much . People forget how good Autry was. He would easily be ahead of Flynn IMO , and probably Jason hart as well.

 

[OrangeDW]

What is this based on?
If it's what he did while he was here, how is Flynn ahead of GMac?
If it's what his ability, how is GMach ahead of MCW?

Or are you just listing them?

Based on performance while they were here, as I saw it. Flynn scored more, assisted more, and shot a better % than GMac.

 

[jdubs30]

Based on performance while they were here, as I saw it. Flynn scored more, assisted more, and shot a better % than GMac.

I loved Jonny as a player, but GMac won 2 BETs and a National Title. Flynn didn't win anything. And it's not like we're comparing Edelin and MCW; GMac was crucial in all 3 of those tournaments.

 

[OrangeDW]

No way Flynn is that high. Played 2 years didn't make NCAA tournament in 1 of those. Questionable defense, especially in zone and shot way too much. Most of all his teams didn't do much . People forget how good Autry was. He would easily be ahead of Flynn IMO , and probably Jason hart as well.

Autrys senior year was about on par with Flynn's sophomore year...both individually and team wise.

Didnt do much teamwise? They went to the sweet 16...which is the furthest Hart and Autry ever went too. And I'll say that the 2009 team played the most difficult schedule of any SU team I remember. The Big East was ridiculous that year, and they beat Kansas, Florida, Memphis, and Virginia out of conference too.

As for shooting too much, he was 46% from the floor, which is very good for a PG. Autry was 42% for his career, with a high of 45% as a senior. Jason Hart was 39% for his career with a high of 41% as a senior.

Not to mention not many SU PG's have averaged more than his 6.7 assists as a sophomore. Hart's high was 6.0 as a senior, Autrys was 6.1 as a senior.

So if Flynn scored more, averaged more assists, and shot a better % than them...and his team maxed out at the sweet 16 just like Hart's and Autry's...how were they better than Flynn?

 

[OrangeDW]

I loved Jonny as a player, but GMac won 2 BETs and a National Title. Flynn didn't win anything. And it's not like we're comparing Edelin and MCW; GMac was crucial in all 3 of those tournaments.

Flynn's 2009 team had a better overall season than GMac's 2004, 2005, and 2006 teams, IMO. Look at who they played, who they beat, overall record, postseason performance...I'd say the 2009 team comes out ahead overall.

Obviously, GMac has 2003. You can't pick your teammates. I think Flynn was the better player.

Obviously GMac has the better career accomplishments. I was ranking on who I think was a better player. Obviously these are more extreme examples, but is Kueth Duany better than Dave Johnson? Is Josh Pace better than Stevie Thompson?

 

[CorduroyG]

im not knocking edelin, but the fact is he was at best the 4th best player on that team. melo, gmac and hak were all better/more important players on that team. mcw is the best player on this years team, or at worst 2nd best if you wanna say fair is our best player. but mcw is more important than fair. yea edelin was huge in the oklahoma st game, but that 1 game doesnt put him on the same level as what mcw is doing now, not even close. theres a huge difference between being the 4th best player on the team and being "the man" like mcw is.

 

[jdubs30]

Flynn's 2009 team had a better overall season than GMac's 2004, 2005, and 2006 teams, IMO. Look at who they played, who they beat, overall record, postseason performance...I'd say the 2009 team comes out ahead overall.

Obviously, GMac has 2003. You can't pick your teammates. I think Flynn was the better player.

Obviously GMac has the better career accomplishments. I was ranking on who I think was a better player. Obviously these are more extreme examples, but is Kueth Duany better than Dave Johnson? Is Josh Pace better than Stevie Thompson?

We had better teams in Flynn's era too. He had Jackson and AO...GMac had TRob and Watkins. Nichols didn't really produce until GMac left, and he had Devendorf when he was young.

 

[anomander]

Autrys senior year was about on par with Flynn's sophomore year...both individually and team wise.

Didnt do much teamwise? They went to the sweet 16...which is the furthest Hart and Autry ever went too. And I'll say that the 2009 team played the most difficult schedule of any SU team I remember. The Big East was ridiculous that year, and they beat Kansas, Florida, Memphis, and Virginia out of conference too.

As for shooting too much, he was 46% from the floor, which is very good for a PG. Autry was 42% for his career, with a high of 45% as a senior. Jason Hart was 39% for his career with a high of 41% as a senior.

Not to mention not many SU PG's have averaged more than his 6.7 assists as a sophomore. Hart's high was 6.0 as a senior, Autrys was 6.1 as a senior.

So if Flynn scored more, averaged more assists, and shot a better % than them...and his team maxed out at the sweet 16 just like Hart's and Autry's...how were they better than Flynn?

Apparently defense doesn't matter? Flynn was clearly the worst. No coincidence the teams he played on were the worst in Syracuse history. There are 2 phases of the game. Also if we're basing this on legacy Autry and Hart were both 4 year players whole Flynn was only 2. They all made it to same round so no advantage there.