Moyer out

[MSOrange]

I only heard the last part of his answer but it sounded like JB was pretty frustrated Moyer didn't go. Said he was 60% and he would take 60% but Moyer's dad came to the locker room and told him not to play - assuming I heard it all correctly.

 

[Dave]

Coaches don't appreciate palpable interference from family. The players are expected to rely on coaching staff and be men. This may change a bit when Buddy comes on board. That is my explanation.

 

[Hoov50]

Coaches don't appreciate palpable interference from family. The players are expected to rely on coaching staff and be men. This may change a bit when Buddy comes on board. That is my explanation.

Ridiculous in my opinion. Stuff like that should end at the little league level. It's BS and part of the reason this generation is so entitled. "Mommy and daddy said I shouldn't play, so I will completely ignore the athletic trainers who are experts." What a joke! Hopefully, Coach B isn't as spiteful as I would be in this situation.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ridiculous in my opinion. Stuff like that should end at the little league level. It's BS and part of the reason this generation is so entitled. "Mommy and daddy said I shouldn't play, so I will completely ignore the athletic trainers who are experts." What a joke! Hopefully, Coach B isn't as spiteful as I would be in this situation.

Some kids/young adults can't yet look out for their own best interests.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Can someone please post the direct quote from the medical staff? I keep seeing how they "cleared him to play" but sure haven't seen that info posted here in anything other than hearsay. Did they say, "you are fine to play" or "you can't do any further damage" or did they say "structurally you are good, but whether or not you play is based on your ability to manage the pain."

Or are we just relying on an off the cuff remark from JB?

 

[orangecuse]

Some kids/young adults can't yet look out for their own best interests.

Young adults are not kids...they're adults. This is a team sport and at the highest level of college hoops, maybe the young adult should place the "team" ahead of their own best interests. At his age and at this level, other than maybe seeking some advice, Matt should've never wedged his father in here, it really is childish, and, imo, not a good look for Moyer. He should've kept that matter between himself and his dad, and then just (as an adult that he is) inform his coach that he couldn't go at all. Saying to JB that he was 60% and JB also having the trainers saying he was good to go, likely, in JB's mind, probably placed Matt even higher than his claimed 60%. Being injured and hurt are two different things. And, since Matt had played in the GT & UL games, along with the last two days of practice, he obviously may have been hurting, but his injury was no worse, not if he hadn't tweaked it in practice, etc.

 

[Hoov50]

Some kids/young adults can't yet look out for their own best interests.

That's why there is a training staff. Maybe I am naive, but I can't imagine the training staff allowing Moyer to play if he was in danger of it getting worse. This would seem to be especially true this year when we can't afford to lose anyone else for an additional amount of time.

I have dealt with trainers at all levels from high school all the way to professional. In my experience the difference between them and your family doctor relates to pain. A trainer is going to say, "It's going to hurt, but if you can play through the pain you aren't going to make it worse." A family doctor is going to say, "You can't continue until the pain is gone." On top of that, the family doctor will write that in a note making it impossible for you to come back until you see them again even if your pain goes away. I have had players slightly jam a thumb and have not from their family doctor saying they can't participate for two weeks. A trainer would have told them to take it easy for a few days and if it is still extremely painful get it looked at.

I have no problem with MM saying that it was too painful for him to play. I do have a problem with him saying his father had a major part in the decision.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Wait a minute...

I thought we hated the team Dr’s because they never cleared anyone and backed the coaching staff??

Am I now to believe we hate the coach and don’t like that a team Dr cleared someone to play??

So confused...

 

[PhatOrange]

Can someone please post the direct quote from the medical staff? I keep seeing how they "cleared him to play" but sure haven't seen that info posted here in anything other than hearsay. Did they say, "you are fine to play" or "you can't do any further damage" or did they say "structurally you are good, but whether or not you play is based on your ability to manage the pain."

Or are we just relying on an off the cuff remark from JB?

I think it's a reasonable assumption he was cleared to play, since, you know, he was supposed to play.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think it's a reasonable assumption he was cleared to play, since, you know, he was supposed to play.

Helpful.

 

[Zepharus]

As a parent of a sports playing child ( 14yo Lax ) , I would be completely embarrassed to intervene on behalf of my child UNLESS, said child was risking permanent damage. I would absolutely speak up. I have told my kid to brush is off and get back to play when he has been checked so hard that he thought his arm was broken... it was clear it wasnt obviously . this ends when they are no longer a child... ie 18 plus. Honestly this is why kids today are so soft and of the "me me me" generation of social media. To have Moyers father go in the locker room and tell JB he wont play is flat out embarrassing and reprehensible.

If Im the Coach , I have a long talk with Moyer after the season about his participation in SU hoops. I also tell him if his father sets foot in the locker room other than to say Hi, hell ride the pine for the remainder of his career. this is BS

 

[two3zone]

None of us know how injured Matt is, last comments I heard before this last presser was he would miss quite a bit of time, he came in a game quickly and was taken out. Now he can't play because he's hurting and we're attacking the kid.

Bottom line, what was to gain by JB even commenting about his parents or his opinion if someone can play or not when they're hurt.

Of course he can use Moyer at 60%, but that doesn't mean it's good for the kid.

The shame about all of this is the kid obviously loves Syracuse and the team, I wasn't a fan of his skill set and still am not but I'm just sick of the back handed comments by our coach year after year then we wonder why guys leave then it's attack the kids the second they leave.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

As a parent of a sports playing child ( 14yo Lax ) , I would be completely embarrassed to intervene on behalf of my child UNLESS, said child was risking permanent damage. I would absolutely speak up. I have told my kid to brush is off and get back to play when he has been checked so hard that he thought his arm was broken... it was clear it wasnt obviously . this ends when they are no longer a child... ie 18 plus. Honestly this is why kids today are so soft and of the "me me me" generation of social media. To have Moyers father go in the locker room and tell JB he wont play is flat out embarrassing and reprehensible.

If Im the Coach , I have a long talk with Moyer after the season about his participation in SU hoops. I also tell him if his father sets foot in the locker room other than to say Hi, hell ride the pine for the remainder of his career. this is BS

I told my 13-year old to get back out there when he had actually broken his sternum one time. Completely legal pick that ended up with him and a hairline fracture of his sternum that his doc told us was nearly impossible to do.

I feel like we are all talking about something that we really have no idea what actually went down. I just wish JB hadn't aired the dirty laundry so publicly, even if was off the cuff and not vitriolic.

 

[orangecuse]

None of us know how injured Matt is, last comments I heard before this last presser was he would miss quite a bit of time, he came in a game quickly and was taken out. Now he can't play because he's hurting and we're attacking the kid.

Bottom line, what was to gain by JB even commenting about his parents or his opinion if someone can play or not when they're hurt.

Of course he can use Moyer at 60%, but that doesn't mean it's good for the kid.

The shame about all of this is the kid obviously loves Syracuse and the team, I wasn't a fan of his skill set and still am not but I'm just sick of the back handed comments by our coach year after year then we wonder why guys leave then it's attack the kids the second they leave.

Matt stated he was good to go after the GT game. He played in the UVA game, where he stated (his own words) that he was 100%. He then went on and played in the UL game. He practiced two days with no apparent limitations prior to yesterday's game against Wake. It's my understanding he did not tweak his ankle, etc. in any fashion. He brought this on himself, especially allowing his dad to place a wedge and undermine JB's authority. Just my opinion.

 

[two3zone]

Matt stated he was good to go after the GT game. He played in the UVA game, where he stated (his own words) that he was 100%. He then went on and played in the UL game. He practiced two days with no apparent limitations prior to yesterday's game against Wake. It's my understanding he did not tweak his ankle in any fashion. He brought this on himself, just my opinion.

Ever sprain an ankle? Especially after a bad sprain it's very easy to tweak, especially playing basketball as often as they do let alone slipping on ice, stepping on another's foot, going up the stairs or a million other ways.

If you take him at his word he was 100, why not take him at his word he isn't ready to go?

Still no excuse for him to be called out like that.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Matt stated he was good to go after the GT game. He played in the UVA game, where he stated (his own words) that he was 100%. He then went on and played in the UL game. He practiced two days with no apparent limitations prior to yesterday's game against Wake. It's my understanding he did not tweak his ankle, etc. in any fashion. He brought this on himself, especially allowing his dad to place a wedge and undermine JB's authority. Just my opinion.

It's interesting now that you point that out.

I went back and read the article, and maybe he was feeling that way, or maybe he was trying to get back quickly and was talking out of the side of his mouth.

Matt Moyer on the status of his ankle injury: 'I feel perfectly fine'

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Does anyone have a link to the photo of the ankle? Just curious to see.

 

[Zepharus]

I told my 13-year old to get back out there when he had actually broken his sternum one time. Completely legal pick that ended up with him and a hairline fracture of his sternum that his doc told us was nearly impossible to do.

I feel like we are all talking about something that we really have no idea what actually went down. I just wish JB hadn't aired the dirty laundry so publicly, even if was off the cuff and not vitriolic.

This is how I feel. JB is just a curmudgeonly old man at this point. Warranted or not , you absolutely have to shut yer trap and keep stuff like this inhouse. Hell NOTHING from an internal struggle or discipline standpoint should be in the public eye. They should have no idea. It not only in poor taste, it disrupts your authority and morale. i would never want to follow a leader that acted like this publically and I'm 45. Imagine a self focused Millennial?

Lets think about this like a business (recruiting, Brand etc) In any service business today, if you lose Millennials you are in big trouble. Cuse is losing millennials. They are in big trouble

IMO we can cue up the Moyer transfer rumors right now. This is a bad look and one not likely to sit well on either side

 

[dasher]

None of us know how injured Matt is, last comments I heard before this last presser was he would miss quite a bit of time, he came in a game quickly and was taken out. Now he can't play because he's hurting and we're attacking the kid.

Bottom line, what was to gain by JB even commenting about his parents or his opinion if someone can play or not when they're hurt.

Of course he can use Moyer at 60%, but that doesn't mean it's good for the kid.

The shame about all of this is the kid obviously loves Syracuse and the team, I wasn't a fan of his skill set and still am not but I'm just sick of the back handed comments by our coach year after year then we wonder why guys leave then it's attack the kids the second they leave.

I hate to agree with you on this but you are 100% correct.

 

[orangecuse]

Ever sprain an ankle? Especially after a bad sprain it's very easy to tweak, especially playing basketball as often as they do let alone slipping on ice, stepping on another's foot, going up the stairs or a million other ways.

If you take him at his word he was 100, why not take him at his word he isn't ready to go?

Still no excuse for him to be called out like that.

Yes I have. And, I agree with you that it's very easy to tweak it afterwards as you mentioned even though I didn't have the daily resources and care that is afforded to Matt. But there wasn't any word of a tweak, just that he appeared perfectly fine the last two days of practice based on actual eyewitness from JB. If Matt suddenly got worse after practice or first thing when he woke up in the morning, he should have handled it himself and advised JB, as an adult. JB, likely would have been miffed, but I doubt he would of played Matt if Matt told JB there's no way I can play. 60% is playing hurt, but still a body to a depleted team, especially for a critical game that this was. Getting his daddy involved undermining JB and the staff's authority is truly what I believe is the larger underlying & festering issue here. One can certainly question and opine how JB handled it, as it's certainly just one's opinion. But, Matt handled this situation poorly himself and is culpable for any potential ribbing/falling out he may get from JB and his teammates.

 

[dasher]

Yes I have. And I agree with you that it's very easy to tweak it afterwards as you mentioned. But there wasn't any word of a tweak, just that he appeared perfectly fine the last two days of practice based on actual eyewitness from JB. If Matt suddenly got worse after practice or first thing when he woke up in the morning, he should have handled it himself and advised JB, as an adult. JB, likely would have been miffed, but I doubt he would of played Matt if Matt told JB there's no way I can play. 60% is playing hurt, but still a body to a depleted team, especially for a critical game that this was. Getting his daddy involved undermining JB and the staff's authority is truly what I believe is the larger underlying & festering issue here. One can certainly question and opine how JB handled it, as it's certainly just one's opinion. But, Matt handled this situation poorly himself and is culpable for any potential ribbing he may get from JB and his teammates.

I think you are mostly right. But if I was to guess, my guess would be that Matt wanted to play and would have played if not for his dad. and I have no trouble with JB being mad about it. My issue is that it should never have been made public. Never. It made it seem that Matt had no heart. And I think that Matt showed a ton of heart by coming back as quickly as he did against the Ville. Any issue JB had with either Moyer should have been said in private.

 

[cusefan88]

I think if Moyer had said he can't play that would have been fine. Seems like JB's main issue is the parent coming into the picture. I agree it should be private but clearly JB wanted to send a message.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I think you are mostly right. But if I was to guess, my guess would be that Matt wanted to play and would have played if not for his dad. and I have no trouble with JB being mad about it. My issue is that it should never have been made public. Never. It made it seem that Matt had no heart. And I think that Matt showed a ton of heart by coming back as quickly as he did against the Ville. Any issue JB had with either Moyer should have been said in private.

Maybe Mrs Moyer shouldn't have gone public with this on Facebook in the 1st place.