My only comment on the Mike Rice situation.

[JarHeadJim]

Thank God their were no video cameras and video phones around when I was training Marines for Combat. I would of made Mike Rice look like Papa Smurf!

 

[pearl31]

Marines for combat ≠ college basketball players

 

[pfister1]

As I was watching the video I couldn't help but wonder...maybe if Rice had better aim and had hit more of his players harder and in more sensitive locations (as opposed to bouncing balls of their ankles) might they have won more games?

 

[Marsh01]

Thank God their were no video cameras and video phones around when I was training Marines for Combat. I would of made Mike Rice look like Papa Smurf!

Especially the ones from Connecticut!

 

[Alsacs]

In the military the job is to train those kids to defend this country, I doubt you ever behaved outside of that scope. I doubt you threw basketballs at kids heads the language aspect isn't a big deal. While I wouldn't use hate slurs like Mike Rice did most people when they played organized sports after little league all use bad language. Mike Rice was a bully plain and simple he could have forced those kids to run laps or do suicides, but instead threw balls at them. I don't know but my guess after Gen. MacArthur was dismissed for touching a soldier is that you can say whatever you want to them, make them do almost anything, but you can't put your hands on them instead you order a "Code Red".

 

[HoustonCuse]

In the military the job is to train those kids to defend this country, I doubt you ever behaved outside of that scope. I doubt you threw basketballs at kids heads the language aspect isn't a big deal. While I wouldn't use hate slurs like Mike Rice did most people when they played organized sports after little league all use bad language. Mike Rice was a bully plain and simple he could have forced those kids to run laps or do suicides, but instead threw balls at them. I don't know but my guess after Gen. MacArthur was dismissed for touching a soldier is that you can say whatever you want to them, make them do almost anything, but you can't put your hands on them instead you order a "Code Red".

Wasn't General MacArthur dismissed for open insubordination of the President of the United States??

 

[Captnhowdy]

Thank God their were no video cameras and video phones around when I was training Marines for Combat. I would of made Mike Rice look like Papa Smurf!

Ya but you're training boys to go into combat and possibly die. Rice is training kids to be better ball players. Apples and Grenades.

Wasn't General MacArthur dismissed for open insubordination of the President of the United States??

Yes. But that pales in comparision to what other generals have done to head's of states throughout history.

 

[Alsacs]

Wasn't General MacArthur dismissed for open insubordination of the President of the United States??

You are correct I mixed MacArthur with Patton. Patton said he wished he kissed the soldier he grabbed because he would have gotten in less trouble.

 

[orangenirvana]

Ya but you're training boys to go into combat and possibly die. Rice is training kids to be better ball players. Apples and Grenades.

It's an interesting debate. Those calling for everyone's head at Rutgers is calling what Rice did blatant abuse. I even think Stockholm Syndrome was mentioned on this forum for why his players defended him. But isn't abuse abuse, regardless of what the training is for?

 

[dasher]

Thank God their were no video cameras and video phones around when I was training Marines for Combat. I would of made Mike Rice look like Papa Smurf!

apples and oranges

 

[Captnhowdy]

It's an interesting debate. Those calling for everyone's head at Rutgers is calling what Rice did blatant abuse. I even think Stockholm Syndrome was mentioned on this forum for why his players defended him. But isn't abuse abuse, regardless of what the training is for?

Yes, but you are also mentally training these kids for a war zone. I know I haven't, but have you ever been stuck in a war zone. You have to be extremly mentally tough to survive in that enviroment.

 

[Townie72]

Thank God their were no video cameras and video phones around when I was training Marines for Combat. I would of made Mike Rice look like Papa Smurf!

How about this approach, Jim?:

"How, c'mon guys, there's an inspection this afternoon at 1600 and I really need you all to do your best. So who is with me on this?"

I went through Basic training in the early 1960's. One afternoon, our drill instructor read a letter to us from the commander of the Basic Military School. In this letter, the commander said that there was no place for profanity in training. Profanity added nothing to it and he wanted it stopped. To all of us who had been listening to non-stop profanity shouted at us for a couple of weeks this seemed like it was going to be a radical departure.

The drill Instructor than folded the letter, put it in his pocket and delivered his standard profanity-lace speech heavy on threats and dire consequences.

I realized than that the officers were all sitting in air-conditioned offices and had no bloody idea what went on on these parade fields and in the barracks. We were the property of the NCO's. They had us by the balls and seemed to enjoy squeezing.

I first heard that bit about "the part of you ran down the crack ... and became the brown stain on the mattress while at a brace. A bit more intimidating than "you guys are playing like fags".

No one who went through that experience is the worse for it.

 

[orangenirvana]

Yes, but you are also mentally training these kids for a war zone. I know I haven't, but have you ever been stuck in a war zone. You have to be extremly mentally tough to survive in that enviroment.

That's exactly how I feel, but then again I wasn't part of the lynch mob that was calling for firings because Rice got rough with his players.

Most of the people who were calling Rice an abuser for what he did used the 'would you yell at your employees like that in an office?!' analogy as if they are even remotely the same. I would hope those who ignore context and environmental relativism and used the office analogy to support their assumption that what Rice did was abuse would also be against (what they consider to be) physical and mental abuse against soldiers. Otherwise they're just being hypocrites.

 

[007]

How about this approach, Jim?:

"How, c'mon guys, there's an inspection this afternoon at 1600 and I really need you all to do your best. So who is with me on this?"

I went through Basic training in the early 1960's. One afternoon, our drill instructor read a letter to us from the commander of the Basic Military School. In this letter, the commander said that there was no place for profanity in training. Profanity added nothing to it and he wanted it stopped. To all of us who had been listening to non-stop profanity shouted at us for a couple of weeks this seemed like it was going to be a radical departure.

The drill Instructor than folded the letter, put it in his pocket and delivered his standard profanity-lace speech heavy on threats and dire consequences.

I realized than that the officers were all sitting in air-conditioned offices and had no bloody idea what went on on these parade fields and in the barracks. We were the property of the NCO's. They had us by the balls and seemed to enjoy squeezing.

I first heard that bit about "the part of you ran down the crack ... and became the brown stain on the mattress while at a brace. A bit more intimidating than "you guys are playing like fags".

No one who went through that experience is the worse for it.

I salute you, and all military personnel, for your service to the country.

However...your personal life experiences in military basic training as you prepared for war and possible loss of life are not relevant to what lead to the dismissal of a high profile basketball coach entrusted to teach kids about playing a game. If one of Rice's players could lose his life in a game if he did not perform X correctly, then you would have a corrleation.

 

[djcon57]

No one who went through that experience is the worse for it.

Your online persona says otherwise.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I don't get the whole Mike Rice thing... I saw the video and yeah it looked a little rough but all I saw was a coach throwing balls at a kids foot. I didn't see him him whip any at someone's head. Here's my question, how is what he did any worse than making a kid run sprints until he pukes, or doing up downs until he falls over or all those other crazy things that football players make their kids do?

 

[Todd Gack]

I don't get the whole Mike Rice thing... I saw the video and yeah it looked a little rough but all I saw was a coach throwing balls at a kids foot. I didn't see him him whip any at someone's head. Here's my question, how is what he did any worse than making a kid run sprints until he pukes, or doing up downs until he falls over or all those other crazy things that football players make their kids do?

IthacaMatt employed the Louis CK defense the other day -- I'll see his comedian commentary with Jon Stewart's (paraphrasing): "Why is anyone wasting their breath defending this guy?" Given that the ball throwing and rough language were relayed in news accounts at the time of the suspension, I'm fairly certain that, if that was it, he wouldn't have been fired -- even with the video. It at least would've been a closer call. However, in 2013, a public employee cannot get caught on tape using ethnic and homophobic slurs and expect to keep their job -- particularly when they're not especially good at said job or employed at an institution with a heightened sensitivity to the effects of bullying.

 

[All4SU]

You are correct I mixed MacArthur with Patton. Patton said he wished he kissed the soldier he grabbed because he would have gotten in less trouble.

Don't ask, don't tell General.

 

[Flacusian]

What Rice did pales in comparison to what I and my pledge brothers were subjected to when pledging Theta Chi. We had to do the one cheek sneak in class because of the blood blisters on our asses from a night of paddling. The best was sitting on a brick, placed up on end, while blindfolded for 24 hours, the day after a paddling . We were initiated after the 24 hours. The psychology of it is that nobody wants to throw in the towel after you've gone through so much $heot for 3 weeks so when the finale arrives you generally think, I've endured all of this crap, it would be foolish to quit now.

Of course... the next semester I was on the other end of the paddles!

 

[Alsacs]

Don't ask, don't tell General.

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news...Shocks-Public-by-Slapping-Crying-Soldier.html

I wish I could find the clip of George C. Scott playing Patton saying " I wish I'd kissed the son-of-a bitch"

 

[Captnhowdy]

I don't get the whole Mike Rice thing... I saw the video and yeah it looked a little rough but all I saw was a coach throwing balls at a kids foot. I didn't see him him whip any at someone's head.

Yes he did throw basketball at players heads. He didn't violently throw them, but they weren't lob passes.

Here's my question, how is what he did any worse than making a kid run sprints until he pukes, or doing up downs until he falls over or all those other crazy things that football players make their kids do?

And the BIGGEST reason for Mike Rice's firing was the language. So there is the difference.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

My take, I played high school basketball for my father and some college ball. I honestly didn't think it was that bad! I used to get balls thrown at me and my rides to and from practice sucked when playing for my dad! I knew coaches from back in the day that would put Mike Rice to shame!

 

[DownTheField]

My take, I played high school basketball for my father and some college ball. I honestly didn't think it was that bad! I used to get balls thrown at me and my rides to and from practice sucked when playing for my dad! I knew coaches from back in the day that would put Mike Rice to shame!

I played for some really tough hockey coaches so the yelling (other than the f****t stuff) and even the ball throwing didn't really bother me but I thought some of those shoves were pretty disturbing.


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[Col. Bleep]

Yes he did throw basketball at players heads. He didn't violently throw them, but they weren't lob passes.



And the BIGGEST reason for Mike Rice's firing was the language. So there is the difference.

There's a HUGE reason the language is so significant.
That is, the Tyler Clementi case...in which a gay Rutgers student jumped off the GW Bridge shortly after his rommate spied on him (although causal link has not been shown).

And there's another point that despite the title ("Coach"), and his specific duties, the college employee is still considered an "educator".
His job is to "teach" (winning basketball).
In that sense, this is no different than a history professor behaving in that fashion.
Obviously, a professor assaulting students and using that kind of language would never be tolerated for a second.

Then add on to that the fact that Rice is a state employee earning a small fortune in tax dollars.

 

[Captnhowdy]

Oh yeah I forgot he was a state employee. The governor of NJ, Chris Christie himself was calling for this dude to get fired.