My only comment on the Mike Rice situation.

[Townie72]

Your online persona says otherwise.

You missed the point. The lessons we learned going through this was about being tough and hanging together and not getting shook up under pressure. And sucking it up when you are bone tired and wet and thirsty and hungry.

Stuff that most people never learn.

 

[Townie72]

I salute you, and all military personnel, for your service to the country.

However...your personal life experiences in military basic training as you prepared for war and possible loss of life are not relevant to what lead to the dismissal of a high profile basketball coach entrusted to teach kids about playing a game. If one of Rice's players could lose his life in a game if he did not perform X correctly, then you would have a corrleation.

Whifff. A total missing of the point.

The guy was trying to motivate these guys. No one even got hurt ... maybe some feelings were hurt.

 

[pearl31]

Whifff. A total missing of the point.

The guy was trying to motivate these guys. No one even got hurt ... maybe some feelings were hurt.

Any chance you're missing the point?

 

[chinaski]

Thank God their were no video cameras and video phones around when I was training Marines for Combat. I would of made Mike Rice look like Papa Smurf!

Given that the number of suicides among veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan exceeds that of those killed in combat, "Suicides in the U.S. military surged to a record 349 last year, far exceeding American combat deaths in Afghanistan, and some private experts are predicting the dark trend will worsen this year" (CBS News).


Veterans in general "A U.S. military veteran commits suicide every 65 minutes, on average, according to a recent study from the Department of Veterans Affairs. "An older, less detailed government analysis reported that about 18 former service members kill themselves each day. But a recent, more precise study of veteran suicides from 1999 to 2010 shows that the number is heartbreakingly higher: 22 deaths per day" (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/u-s-vets-commit-suicide-alarming-rate-study-article-1.1253900)


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/u-s-vets-commit-suicide-alarming-rate-study-article-1.1253900#ixzz2Q8k2oCf5

http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stor...ths-in-afghanistan-in-2012-130116?news=846767

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/us/suicides-eclipse-war-deaths-for-us-troops.html?_r=0

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13481099

Maybe all that macho boot camp harassment and over-the-top physical and mental abuse isn't what it's cracked up to be.

 

[Noexcuse]

My take, I played high school basketball for my father and some college ball. I honestly didn't think it was that bad! I used to get balls thrown at me and my rides to and from practice sucked when playing for my dad! I knew coaches from back in the day that would put Mike Rice to shame!

 

[orangenirvana]

And there's another point that despite the title ("Coach"), and his specific duties, the college employee is still considered an "educator".
His job is to "teach" (winning basketball).
In that sense, this is no different than a history professor behaving in that fashion.
Obviously, a professor assaulting students and using that kind of language would never be tolerated for a second.

Ugh. Are you kidding me?

See, this is the lack of perspective that I'm talking about in my post above. It blows my mind that there are people out there who think the ways in which a coach coaches a basketball team and a professor teaches a history course should be the same.

I have to believe these people have never played a sport in their lives.

 

[Townie72]

Any chance you're missing the point?

Ohh, I get the other side of this.

Ohhh, the horror. Ohhh the horror. How could people withstand such cruelty? Coaches shouldn't behave like this. What if one of these players actually was gay? What about their FEELINGS?

That about gets it, right?

As I said way back when ... A nation of sissies.

 

[Townie72]

Given that the number of suicides among veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan exceeds that of those killed in combat, "Suicides in the U.S. military surged to a record 349 last year, far exceeding American combat deaths in Afghanistan, and some private experts are predicting the dark trend will worsen this year" (CBS News).


Veterans in general "A U.S. military veteran commits suicide every 65 minutes, on average, according to a recent study from the Department of Veterans Affairs. "An older, less detailed government analysis reported that about 18 former service members kill themselves each day. But a recent, more precise study of veteran suicides from 1999 to 2010 shows that the number is heartbreakingly higher: 22 deaths per day" (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/u-s-vets-commit-suicide-alarming-rate-study-article-1.1253900)


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/u-s-vets-commit-suicide-alarming-rate-study-article-1.1253900#ixzz2Q8k2oCf5

http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stor...ths-in-afghanistan-in-2012-130116?news=846767

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/us/suicides-eclipse-war-deaths-for-us-troops.html?_r=0

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13481099

Maybe all that macho boot camp harassment and over-the-top physical and mental abuse isn't what it's cracked up to be.

Yeah, right.

It wasn't the situation they were put in that created problems, it was the training?

Besides, millions served in WWII experiencing the same type of training and conditions or worse. What was the suicide rate among this population either in combat or afterwards?

 

[Knicks411]

Given that the ball throwing and rough language were relayed in news accounts at the time of the suspension

Is this true? Maybe the language, but I don't seem to remember hearing about throwing basketballs at the heads of players.

 

[Todd Gack]

Is this true? Maybe the language, but I don't seem to remember hearing about throwing basketballs at the heads of players.

From a December 14, 2012 article from Forbes.com:

"And yesterday Rutgers University coach Mike Rice was suspended for three games, fined $50,000 and banned from any contact with the program for foul language and inappropriate behavior, which included throwing basketballs at players’ heads during practice."

Full article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidla...basketballs-at-players-heads-during-practice/.

 

[Knicks411]

Fair enough, obviously I just missed it at the time.

 

[Todd Gack]

Fair enough, obviously I just missed it at the time.

Only a wuss admits mistakes.

 

[Eric15]

Ohhh, the horror. Ohhh the horror. How could people withstand such cruelty? Coaches shouldn't behave like this. What if one of these players actually was gay? What about their FEELINGS?

That about gets it, right?

As I said way back when ... A nation of sissies.

Townie, nothing personal, but you're acting like a meat-head in this thread.

Mike Rice screwed up big time, and firing him immediately was literally the only possible option.

 

[Townie72]

Townie, nothing personal, but you're acting like a meat-head in this thread.

Mike Rice screwed up big time, and firing him immediately was literally the only possible option.

Rice had to go because of the public reaction to the videos. Rutgers had already dealt with the offenses by fining him and suspending him. There are no heros in these academic bureaucracies. Too much heat? Throw the guy out. Especially in a State school where politicians can get hold of it as an issue.

I think the reaction to the videos was overblown. Much as I thought the reaction to the Imus comments about the RU women's basketball team were overblown.

But I agree, that is the world we live in.

The basketball coach was fired. The AD lost his job and it may very well be that the President loses his.

I'd say the naked foul shooting that occurred under the previous Rutgers coach was worse as it was humiliating. I'd much rather get hit with a basketball than humiliated.

I think the AD might have a good case in court about how it went down for him. He reacted to the videos. He took action. What happened was when the videos went public, the public was outrages. Then RU had to go back and retroactively react.

 

[Knicks411]

Only a wuss admits mistakes.

Dammit, if someone had thrown a basketball at my head when I was in college then I would've had the toughness to not say I was wrong.

 

[Todd Gack]

Dammit, if someone had thrown a basketball at my head when I was in college then I would've had the toughness to not say I was wrong.

You are now ready to be a Scarlet Knight.

 

[Eric15]

I think the reaction to the videos was overblown. Much as I thought the reaction to the Imus comments about the RU women's basketball team were overblown.

But then where do you draw the line? If kicking players, throwing basketballs at players heads from close distance and saying horribly homophobic slurs aren't fireable offenses, then what is?

What if Mike Rice called one of his players the N-word? I'm sure back in the 1950s that was more or less acceptable behavior. But you said now we're a nation of sissies. So is that fireable or not fireable?

Or what if he just flat out punched a player in the face?

 

[Townie72]

But then where do you draw the line? If kicking players, throwing basketballs at players heads from close distance and saying horribly homophobic slurs aren't fireable offenses, then what is?

What if Mike Rice called one of his players the N-word? I'm sure back in the 1950s that was more or less acceptable behavior. But you said now we're a nation of sissies. So is that fireable or not fireable?

Or what if he just flat out punched a player in the face?

Oh, I agree. That is the point. Where do you draw the line?

I agree that punching a player in the face would have been over any line.

I do not agree that his use of language was "horribly homphobic". It was pretty mild stuff and he wasn't actual;y accusing them of being homosexuals.

Some questions:

Did any of these basketball ever hit anybody in the head?

What do you actually know of America in the 1950's? Especially as it relates to how people were treated, what was acceptable, etc. Are you drawing your conclusions based on movies you might have watched?

Anyone ever accuse you of being a drama queen?

 

[Knicks411]

It was pretty mild stuff and he wasn't actual;y accusing them of being homosexuals.

You do realize people don't object to him accusing players of being gay as much as the implication that calling people gay is an insult, right?

 

[SBU72]

You are correct I mixed MacArthur with Patton. Patton said he wished he kissed the soldier he grabbed because he would have gotten in less trouble.

Actually no. He did sam that but he would have been in more trouble because homosexuals (1940's term!) were not acceptable in the army. As it was he was removed from command for a while. A kiss would have dismmissed him.

 

[Townie72]

You do realize people don't object to him accusing players of being gay as much as the implication that calling people gay is an insult, right?

Did he actually credibly accuse anyone of being gay? Or did he compare their efforts to that he might expect from a faggot?

 

[Knicks411]

Did he actually credibly accuse anyone of being gay? Or did he compare their efforts to that he might expect from a faggot?

What effort would you expect from a faggot?

Also, being gay isn't something you really "accuse" someone of. It's not a crime.

 

[Eric15]

Anyone ever accuse you of being a drama queen?

If anyone is a drama queen, isn't it Mike Rice? He has less control of his emotions than anyone I've ever scene.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Ohh, I get the other side of this.

Ohhh, the horror. Ohhh the horror. How could people withstand such cruelty? Coaches shouldn't behave like this. What if one of these players actually was gay? What about their FEELINGS?

That about gets it, right?

As I said way back when ... A nation of sissies.

Your dinosaur is double parked.

 

[Townie72]

What effort would you expect from a faggot?

Also, being gay isn't something you really "accuse" someone of. It's not a crime.

Obviously, Rice had something in mind, when he characterized their efforts.

None of them complained, as far as I know. They probably just sloughed it off. Something that the hyper-sensitive, ultra political correct among us would be unable to do.