Next year major new contributors

[721Comstock]

Mine is much more eyeball. He's not particularly fast, athletic, or possesses good hands. He's huge, and if he has a big year next year, I'll gladly eat crow.

It's more than just circumstance that prevents a player from being productive though.

You mean, kinda like Amba Etta Tawo?

There was nothing he did in his 3 prior years, that would lead anyone to think he'd have the kind of final year that he did.
Yet, it happened.

Ish was solid the past 2 years, but not spectacular - and everybody said he'd never replace Amba, that nobody could.
And yet, it happened.

Alec Lemon didn't really do all that much his first 2 years, then became a prolific receiver in his last 2.

Sometimes it takes a guy until his final year (or 2) to put it all together.
I'm not writing off Custis just yet.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I'm not writing off Custis just yet.

And that's fine, but I have.

 

[SoBristol]

You mean, kinda like Amba Etta Tawo?

There was nothing he did in his 3 prior years, that would lead anyone to think he'd have the kind of final year that he did.
Yet, it happened.

Ish was solid the past 2 years, but not spectacular - and everybody said he'd never replace Amba, that nobody could.
And yet, it happened.

Alec Lemon didn't really do all that much his first 2 years, then became a prolific receiver in his last 2.

Sometimes it takes a guy until his final year (or 2) to put it all together.
I'm not writing off Custis just yet.

Not accurate. Amba Etta Tawo was the #3 WR at Maryland, part-time starter as a soph & junior, playing behind 4 star recruits. He put up at least a couple of 100 yard games, including one against SU as a sophomore. Could get open, was a deep threat, had size and speed, and the knock was that he was inconsistent (drops). The talent was apparent -- if only he could catch the ball consistently. Once he arrived at SU, he was an obvious and immediate upgrade over what we had.

Ishmael was our best WR recruit in several years, MacDonald's prime recruit, and he was one of the few true frosh receivers to put up 30 or more receptions (Alex Lemon was the other). He started as a soph, got better, and was primed to be our #1 receiver in 2016 -- until AET arrived. Everyone could see he would be the prime target in 2017.

Lemon's first two years were a lot better than "didn't really do all that much" -- good right away, and improved each year.

Custis has been hampered by injuries. Maybe he can still develop into a serviceable receiver, but there isn't much comparison to AET's career path or to Ishmael's or to Lemon's.

 

[TheCusian]

Mine is much more eyeball. He's not particularly fast, athletic, or possesses good hands. He's huge, and if he has a big year next year, I'll gladly eat crow.

It's more than just circumstance that prevents a player from being productive though.

For sure. I just don’t write off anyone on the two deep with a year of eligibility left. Unlikely, sure.

 

[SmilinBob]

Regarding Sampson at C; that's one of the toughest positions to make an immediate impact on. Love Servais. He has the size, motor, and mean steak to be a pro. If he doesn't do it at center, it will be tackle.

If somehow Sampson can start at center plus having Roberts back and Servais being moved? Wow...things will really start to click. I'll be thrilled just to have Roberts back and healthy to add to what's already there but again, if Sampson is really that good to be able to start as a true freshman...depth and talents galores.

 

[timkay99]

Not accurate. Amba Etta Tawo was the #3 WR at Maryland, part-time starter as a soph & junior, playing behind 4 star recruits. He put up at least a couple of 100 yard games, including one against SU as a sophomore. Could get open, was a deep threat, had size and speed, and the knock was that he was inconsistent (drops). The talent was apparent -- if only he could catch the ball consistently. Once he arrived at SU, he was an obvious and immediate upgrade over what we had.

Ishmael was our best WR recruit in several years, MacDonald's prime recruit, and he was one of the few true frosh receivers to put up 30 or more receptions (Alex Lemon was the other). He started as a soph, got better, and was primed to be our #1 receiver in 2016 -- until AET arrived. Everyone could see he would be the prime target in 2017.

Lemon's first two years were a lot better than "didn't really do all that much" -- good right away, and improved each year.

Custis has been hampered by injuries. Maybe he can still develop into a serviceable receiver, but there isn't much comparison to AET's career path or to Ishmael's or to Lemon's.

Custis won the starting job opposite Ishmael on the outside and showed flashes pre injury and since injury.

It's hard to get targets with both Ish and Erv around, which is a great problem to have.

My honest question, is if Custis beat out Butler (whom I also like) this spring, who are we going to have from a freshman perspective come in and do that? I know Hendrix is the popular one, but I just struggle to see him jumping Custis and Butler and all the redshirt frosh in just one fall session of practices.

I think Custis is being groomed to be that deep threat (not at the level of AET or Ish), but does enough to justify a safety covering over the top, which opens up Pierce, Butler, Nykeim and Riley in the underneath passing game next year.

 

[OrangePA]

Is he redshirting, or has he played on ST? He has really nice size at 6-3 and about 235 lbs.

My presumption is that he is redshirting.

 

[Chip]

And that's fine, but I have.

My guess is that you're more right than wrong.

My hope is that you're more wrong than right.

Custis being the next guy whose senior year was a breakout would be a welcome sight for a team that will need early production from WRs.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

My hope is that you're more wrong than right.

Same here.

 

[SoBristol]

Custis won the starting job opposite Ishmael on the outside and showed flashes pre injury and since injury.

It's hard to get targets with both Ish and Erv around, which is a great problem to have.

My honest question, is if Custis beat out Butler (whom I also like) this spring, who are we going to have from a freshman perspective come in and do that? I know Hendrix is the popular one, but I just struggle to see him jumping Custis and Butler and all the redshirt frosh in just one fall session of practices.

I think Custis is being groomed to be that deep threat (not at the level of AET or Ish), but does enough to justify a safety covering over the top, which opens up Pierce, Butler, Nykeim and Riley in the underneath passing game next year.

In fairness, Custis & Butler seemed to be 1A and 1B on the left outside spot, with Custis having seniority. When you watch Custis run routes, how is he doing -- any separation on medium routes or deep routes?
Butler, making the transition to WR from being a QB in high school, seems to be ahead of Custis and has more promise per my observations.

I am cautious about projecting any true frosh as moving ahead of Nykeim Johnson and Sherrod Johnson, or even the red shirt WRs who will have had the benefit of a full year learning the schemes. Last season's commits who did play (Nykeim & Sherrod) did not have much impact. Babers chose to redshirt the other two -- takes time presumably to learn the routes, adjust to the pace, and there was not much opportunity or need for them in 2017. I believe the same was true (limited use of true frosh receivers or even RS-F) with Babers at BGSU and Eastern Illinois. He has made his living with veteran receivers who had already demonstrated their talent, and then flourished in a pass-heavy offense.

 

[CbusCuse]

In fairness, Custis & Butler seemed to be 1A and 1B on the left outside spot, with Custis having seniority. When you watch Custis run routes, how is he doing -- any separation on medium routes or deep routes?
Butler, making the transition to WR from being a QB in high school, seems to be ahead of Custis and has more promise per my observations.

I am cautious about projecting any true frosh as moving ahead of Nykeim Johnson and Sherrod Johnson, or even the red shirt WRs who will have had the benefit of a full year learning the schemes. Last season's commits who did play (Nykeim & Sherrod) did not have much impact. Babers chose to redshirt the other two -- takes time presumably to learn the routes, adjust to the pace, and there was not much opportunity or need for them in 2017. I believe the same was true (limited use of true frosh receivers or even RS- ) with Babers at BGSU and Eastern Illinois. He has made his living with veteran receivers who had already demonstrated their talent, and then flourished in a pass-heavy offense.

Has Sherrod seen the field this year? I was hoping he was still a redshirt candidate.

 

[timkay99]

In fairness, Custis & Butler seemed to be 1A and 1B on the left outside spot, with Custis having seniority. When you watch Custis run routes, how is he doing -- any separation on medium routes or deep routes?
Butler, making the transition to WR from being a QB in high school, seems to be ahead of Custis and has more promise per my observations.

I am cautious about projecting any true frosh as moving ahead of Nykeim Johnson and Sherrod Johnson, or even the red shirt WRs who will have had the benefit of a full year learning the schemes. Last season's commits who did play (Nykeim & Sherrod) did not have much impact. Babers chose to redshirt the other two -- takes time presumably to learn the routes, adjust to the pace, and there was not much opportunity or need for them in 2017. I believe the same was true (limited use of true frosh receivers or even RS- ) with Babers at BGSU and Eastern Illinois. He has made his living with veteran receivers who had already demonstrated their talent, and then flourished in a pass-heavy offense.

Custis creates separation on some deep routes. Not much on medium. In comparison to Butler, my personal observation is Custis has better body control and deep ball awareness while Butler is better on routes involving cutting on a dime (the slants) or getting to top speed after a reception (bubbles) as opposed to winning a jump ball in traffic.

I think Custis is your best chance as a deep threat amongst receivers currently on the roster. I don't expect him to put up Ishmael/Etta-Tawo numbers, but I do think it'd be normal for him to go 3 and 52 as an example.

My personal thought is Butler out-catches Custis if we look into next year, but the yards per catch will be drastically in Custis' favor.

 

[TheCusian]

In fairness, Custis & Butler seemed to be 1A and 1B on the left outside spot, with Custis having seniority. When you watch Custis run routes, how is he doing -- any separation on medium routes or deep routes?
Butler, making the transition to WR from being a QB in high school, seems to be ahead of Custis and has more promise per my observations.

I am cautious about projecting any true frosh as moving ahead of Nykeim Johnson and Sherrod Johnson, or even the red shirt WRs who will have had the benefit of a full year learning the schemes. Last season's commits who did play (Nykeim & Sherrod) did not have much impact. Babers chose to redshirt the other two -- takes time presumably to learn the routes, adjust to the pace, and there was not much opportunity or need for them in 2017. I believe the same was true (limited use of true frosh receivers or even RS- ) with Babers at BGSU and Eastern Illinois. He has made his living with veteran receivers who had already demonstrated their talent, and then flourished in a pass-heavy offense.

Probably more of a function of not being at either place for more than two seasons.

I don’t think the staff has a hard time identifying or preparing talent to compete. I think the question is how long does that take?

 

[SoBristol]

Probably more of a function of not being at either place for more than two seasons.

I don’t think the staff has a hard time identifying or preparing talent to compete. I think the question is how long does that take?

Yes, how long? It is a limited history, but we do have those two years, at 3 different programs. And there is other data about how 3 star WR recruits have fared in their first year at SU or at other programs.

 

[care taker]

We have plenty of talent at wr speed and size wise just need to see if they can play physical like ish to win deep balls ( although ish pushes off way to Much and is lucky he hasn't got more PI calls against him )

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

He has not played.

 

[OrangePA]

My guess is that you're more right than wrong.

My hope is that you're more wrong than right.

Custis being the next guy whose senior year was a breakout would be a welcome sight for a team that will need early production from WRs.

The guy is impressive physically.

He just doesn't seem to be able to make catches on a consistent basis.

I agree - lets hope he finally breaks through.

 

[TheCusian]

Yes, how long? It is a limited history, but we do have those two years, at 3 different programs. And there is other data about how 3 star WR recruits have fared in their first year at SU or at other programs.

Right. I think the trend forever is that players are rarely better as freshman as they'll be as seniors. But we know it's not learning the system (AET had one camp and then morphed into an All-American). Custis is a Junior, has a D1 20+ body - so we know it's not just age/maturity.

I just think this offense gets players 3x the reps in practice and 2x the plays in games - that if a player will become anything - this system and this staff supercharges their talent. Unlikely that a freshman will start, but they see reps in games.

Every chance will be given. I have faith that someone will emerge.