Not so good

[rosconey]

No kidding. There were systemic breakdowns on offense, across the board. In the zeal to throw somebody under the bus, I think that some posters are misunderstanding that both offensive and defensive execution have a lot of moving parts and require lots of things to work properly in tandem. Our OL struggled. Our QB struggled. The WR's struggled. And we weren't able to establish the running game as expected.

It wasn't pretty, and the play calling was disappointing. But pointing just at the OC / play calling is like focusing on the most obvious symptom while missing sight of the the systemic problem through the trees.

never heard of shhiitt rolling uphill-it always starts at the top

 

[RF2044]

never heard of shhiitt rolling uphill-it always starts at the top

Doesn't change that there were a lot of things that hampered our offensive execution yesterday--not just one, regardless of whether people want to focus all of their blame on one convenient thing.

 

[RoysRunts]

Allen telegraphed every THROW,What did they run?, about 5 different Plays

 

[rosconey]

Doesn't change that there were a lot of things that hampered our offensive execution yesterday--not just one, regardless of whether people want to focus all of their blame on one convenient thing.

you have to focus on whats wrong at the top before you can fix it at the bottom-
they were in fact bad because of ill preperation by the oc- bad communication from the top down is on the oc-not knowing What your supposed to do on the field is on the oc-ect ect

 

[anomander]

you have to focus on whats wrong at the top before you can fix it at the bottom-
they were in fact bad because of ill preperation by the oc- bad communication from the top down is on the oc-not knowing What your supposed to do on the field is on the oc-ect ect

you do realize that the new OC just completed his first (as in the #1) game calling plays with a brand new qb, and wr core right? let's wait until maybe week 2.

anybody remember Minnesota last season?

 

[RF2044]

you have to focus on whats wrong at the top before you can fix it at the bottom-
they were in fact bad because of ill preperation by the oc- bad communication from the top down is on the oc-not knowing What your supposed to do on the field is on the oc-ect ect

BS. You fix the foundation before you paint the walls or worry about the roof.

Were they bad because of "ill preparation" -- which I find incredibly difficult to believe -- or due to poor execution?

Latter seems a lot more plausible. It might be more convenient to focus on only one root cause, but in actuality there were lots of things that broke down on offense yesterday.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm amazed at the McDonald over reaction around here. Let's break it down like this:

1. Last year's QB was a 3 year starter with an NFL'er in Pugh.
2. Hackett was here four years and only hit his groove last year, with a veteran QB.
3. It was Penn State. With Penn State LB and a pretty good DL.
4. It was the 1st game with the new OL. Mackey said there were communication issues. That seems pretty normal for the 1st year line coach, and OC - and a two new starters on the line.
5. Drew Allen is playing his 1st game.
6. Flemming is playing his 1st game as a starting WR.
7. They actually made a few big plays. 50+ yarder to Kobena. Some nice runs by Smith.
8. Drew looked the part in a few series. Enough to work with.
9. OC is brand new and will need to work out the kinks. It's going to take time.
10. The contrast between last years O and this years O is dramatic - not just because we struggled vs. Penn State - but because we were killing people the last 6 games or so. Record breaking stuff.

Let's see how they respond. I have a feeling they are concerned about it and will work on solving the issues. This is isn't Greggers over there. Shafer will make sure it's all worked on...

 

[GoSU96]

I'm amazed at the McDonald over reaction around here. Let's break it down like this:

1. Last year's QB was a 3 year starter with an NFL'er in Pugh.
2. Hackett was here four years and only hit his groove last year, with a veteran QB.
3. It was Penn State. With Penn State LB and a pretty good DL.
4. It was the 1st game with the new OL. Mackey said there were communication issues. That seems pretty normal for the 1st year line coach, and OC - and a two new starters on the line.
5. Drew Allen is playing his 1st game.
6. Flemming is playing his 1st game as a starting WR.
7. They actually made a few big plays. 50+ yarder to Kobena. Some nice runs by Smith.
8. Drew looked the part in a few series. Enough to work with.
9. OC is brand new and will need to work out the kinks. It's going to take time.
10. The contrast between last years O and this years O is dramatic - not just because we struggled vs. Penn State - but because we were killing people the last 6 games or so. Record breaking stuff.

Let's see how they respond. I have a feeling they are concerned about it and will work on solving the issues. This is isn't Greggers over there. Shafer will make sure it's all worked on...

No excuse for the amount of regression. There is an awful lot of papering over real problems. Pugh and Lemon didn't play vs NW last year and SU went for 596 yds last year.

Here is the receiving box score from the first game last year.
Syracuse

No.YdsTDLong
BROYLD, Ashton 4 28 0 9
SALES, Marcus 12 129 1 41
GULLEY, Prince-Tyson 7 46 0 11
KOBENA, Jeremiah 4 79 2 50
CLARK, Christopher 3 28 1 20
SMITH, Jerome 2 39 0 34
CUTLER, Carl 3 25 0 11
WALES, Beckett 6 49 0 17
WEST, Jarrod 4 59 0 33


Everyone but Sales and Carl Cutler played yesterday. Lemon didn't play in that game and yet Nassib managed to throw for 482 yds. Same running backs played in that game as this one.

 

[rosconey]

BS. You fix the foundation before you paint the walls or worry about the roof.

Were they bad because of "ill preparation" -- which I find incredibly difficult to believe -- or due to poor execution?

Latter seems a lot more plausible. It might be more convenient to focus on only one root cause, but in actuality there were lots of things that broke down on offense yesterday.

how the hell is the foundation not the oc- thats just plain wrong

the foundation of style is on him- so is preparation and guidance to get the players ready-he lays the offensive foundation- to say the oc isnt the foundation is crazzzy

 

[rosconey]

when you cant execute a play call how can you be expected to execute a play - i would think communication is fairly easy compared to the actual play-

mcdonald screwed the pooch -

 

[RF2044]

how the hell is the foundation not the oc- thats just plain wrong

the foundation of style is on him- so is preparation and guidance to get the players ready-he lays the offensive foundation- to say the oc isnt the foundation is crazzzy

The foundation is the players executing properly. You know--since they actually are the ones performing on the field.

Not sure what you're not grasping here, beyond your desire to villainize the new OC after one game.

What's REALLY crazy is the notion that everything was fine yesterday, with the exception of how the OC functioned. As if holding everything else constant, the only thing holding back the offensive production was how the OC performed. :crazy:

 

[kcsu]

The foundation is the players executing properly. You know--since they actually are the ones performing on the field.

Not sure what you're not grasping here, beyond your desire to villainize the new OC after one game.

What's REALLY crazy is the notion that everything was fine yesterday, with the exception of how the OC functioned. As if holding everything else constant, the only thing holding back the offensive production was how the OC performed. :crazy:

Not my point at all. My point is that McDonald was lost. His unit was not prepared to play forget the execution McDonald didnt get plays in on time. Subsitutions were beyond poor. Units looked confused and play calling was like a Greek Diner. He never gave the guys a chance

 

[RF2044]

Not my point at all. My point is that McDonald was lost. His unit was not prepared to play forget the execution McDonald didnt get plays in on time. Subsitutions were beyond poor. Units looked confused and play calling was like a Greek Diner. He never gave the guys a chance

And I think you are making a false attribution. It had very little to do with the unit "not prepared to play," and a lot more to do with the unit's capabilities to execute.

I'm not suggesting that the play calling didn't disappoint. I just think many of these posts are focusing on symptoms instead of the actual problems.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I watched just the offense again and if we don't see significant improvement week 2 would be surprised. DC earned a longer leash OC much shorter leash. Allen gets until the 2nd half of Tulane game, IMO. If he is still struggling, hunt needs to play,maybe even versus Wagner.

Have to get Wales involved down the seam. I just think gmc thought he would be able to run the ball... We need balance to be effective.

 

[rosconey]

so why isnt execution on the oc?

can you not grasp the symptoms are because of mcdonald the actual problem saturday-
when a offense is run bad it looks bad-
you must be in management if you think the problems are not at the top-
its not rocket surgery

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The problems were every where. We should be able to score some points Saturday. If we can't its going to be a very long year... And a very long year but short career for GMC, that performance hinted at incompetent. There was no semblance of a scheme, kids didn't have a chance

 

[RF2044]

so why isnt execution on the oc?

can you not grasp the symptoms are because of mcdonald the actual problem saturday-
when a offense is run bad it looks bad-
you must be in management if you think the problems are not at the top-
its not rocket surgery

Oy vey. Let's try this again.

The right side of the offensive line struggled immensely. No blocky, no runny.
The WRs for the most part failed to achieve separation. No get openy, no catchy.
The QB who's only been here for a month was out of sync with his teammates. No throwy, no movey the ball against stout run D.
We went through a lengthy stretch in the game where we couldn't even complete a pass. No throwy = increasingly conservative and predictable play calls.

There were some other factors, as well. The offense game plan, in a word, stunk. On paper, the PSU's defensive front seven was a big question mark, so I get why the plan was to try to run it down their throats. But when we couldn't establish the run, they couldn't go to plan B because Allen played so poorly in general.

Play calling was also problematic. Too many "cute" calls, too many second and 10 runs that went for 2 yards.

Both of these last two things are on McDonald. No question about it, and this debut was a cause for concern. Being a WR position coach is a lot different than being an OC, and there are bound to be speed bumps and a learning curve. Doesn't absolve him, just the way it is.

However, it is foolish not to recognize that the poor execution of the players handcuffed what the offensive coaches could do during the course of the game, because they weren't confident in what the players were capable of delivering on Saturday. If Allen had come out and played the whole game like he did the first quarter, you don't think that we would have seen a more wide open, pass-oriented attack? Please.

If you want to chalk all of that up to McDonald being so incompetent that he single handedly ruined the offense this offseason, that's pretty myopic. Sorry--I just don't accept that if you swap out GMD for another OC that the offense would have magically hummed on Saturday. Too many question marks heading into the opener, and we lack experience at several key positions. And if Allen doesn't show improvement, then it won't matter what plays are called, because the offense is never going to come together this year. Sticking with that earlier analogy that you misused, the blame might rest with the coaches, but the fault lies with the players and poor execution.

 

[GoSU96]

Oy vey. Let's try this again, because you really seem to be honed in on all the wrong things.

The right side of the offensive line struggled immensely. No blocky, no runny.
The WRs for the most part failed to achieve separation. No get openy, no catchy.
The QB who's only been here for a month was out of sync with his teammates. No throwy, no movey the ball against stout run D.
We went through a lengthy stretch in the game where we couldn't even complete a pass. No throwy = increasingly conservative play calls.

There were some other factors, as well. The offense game plan, in a word, stunk. On paper, the defensive front seven was a big question mark, so I get on paper why the plan was to try to run it down their throats. But when we couldn't establish the run, they couldn't go to plan B because Allen played so poorly in general.

Play calling was also problematic. Too many "cute" calls, too many second and 10 runs that went for 2 yards.

Both of these last two things are on McDonald. But it is foolish not to realize that the poor execution of the players led the coaches to get more and more conservative on offense during the course of the game, because they weren't confident in what the players could deliver on Saturday.

If you want to chalk all of that up to McDonald being so incompetent that he single handedly ruined the offense this offseason, that's pretty myopic. Sorry--I just don't accept that if you swap out GMD for another OC that the offense would have magically hummed on Saturday. Too many question marks heading into the opener, and we lack talent / experience at several key positions.

I'm not taking it to the extreme that kcsu and the guy you are addressing are, they have a track record for being over the top wrong, but there was a major issue from a coaching perspective.

I'm not buying the new, new, new, inexperienced argument or lack of talent.

Now Nwestern's defense last year vs PSU the other day is much different, I conceed that but...

OL, Hickey, Trudo, and Sweet Lou played their first games ever last year vs Nwestern. Three OL with zero gamesnaps. The same can't be said of Foy or Robinson, who both played last year. Pugh didn't play

Skill positions, as I noted above the only players unavailable for this game that were for the opener last year, Sales, David Stevens and Cutler. That's it. Lemon didn't play in that game.

I get Nassib vs Allen, but Allen is not a true freshmen, he's a fifth year senior, he has been coached at the highest levels, and he has all the physical attributes you want in a QB.

Saturday saw the lowest per play average (3.5) since Robinson was shown the door, second lowest net (1.9) and third lowest gross (3.16) yards per carry, 2nd lowest completion percentage (43.2).

This is not a complete rebuild on offense, but it was a complete regression to one of three worst performances since Robinson left.

 

[anglerman]

I

Oy vey. Let's try this again.

The right side of the offensive line struggled immensely. No blocky, no runny.
The WRs for the most part failed to achieve separation. No get openy, no catchy.
The QB who's only been here for a month was out of sync with his teammates. No throwy, no movey the ball against stout run D.
We went through a lengthy stretch in the game where we couldn't even complete a pass. No throwy = increasingly conservative and predictable play calls.

There were some other factors, as well. The offense game plan, in a word, stunk. On paper, the PSU's defensive front seven was a big question mark, so I get why the plan was to try to run it down their throats. But when we couldn't establish the run, they couldn't go to plan B because Allen played so poorly in general.

Play calling was also problematic. Too many "cute" calls, too many second and 10 runs that went for 2 yards.

Both of these last two things are on McDonald. No question about it, and this debut was a cause for concern. Being a WR position coach is a lot different than being an OC, and there are bound to be speed bumps and a learning curve. Doesn't absolve him, just the way it is.

However, it is foolish not to recognize that the poor execution of the players handcuffed what the offensive coaches could do during the course of the game, because they weren't confident in what the players were capable of delivering on Saturday. If Allen had come out and played the whole game like he did the first quarter, you don't think that we would have seen a more wide open, pass-oriented attack? Please.

If you want to chalk all of that up to McDonald being so incompetent that he single handedly ruined the offense this offseason, that's pretty myopic. Sorry--I just don't accept that if you swap out GMD for another OC that the offense would have magically hummed on Saturday. Too many question marks heading into the opener, and we lack experience at several key positions. And if Allen doesn't show improvement, then it won't matter what plays are called, because the offense is never going to come together this year. Sticking with that earlier analogy that you misused, the blame might rest with the coaches, but the fault lies with the players and poor execution.

The one thing I disagree with is the play of the oline. I think most of the game they gave Allen plenty of time to throw the ball. The one problem they did have was that could not hear what the protection scheme was suppose to be due to the crowd noise. There was a PS article that mentioned that issue. There must be a way to fix that.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm not taking it to the extreme that kcsu and the guy you are addressing are, they have a track record for being over the top wrong, but there was a major issue from a coaching perspective.

I'm not buying the new, new, new, inexperienced argument or lack of talent.

Now Nwestern's defense last year vs PSU the other day is much different, I conceed that
but...

OL, Hickey, Trudo, and Sweet Lou played their first games ever last year vs Nwestern. Three OL with zero gamesnaps. The same can't be said of Foy or Robinson, who both played last
year. Pugh didn't play

Skill positions, as I noted above the only players unavailable for this game that were for the opener last year, Sales, David Stevens and Cutler. That's it. Lemon didn't play in that game

I get Nassib vs Allen, but Allen is not a true freshmen, he's a fifth year senior, he has been coached at the highest levels, and he has all the physical attributes you want in a QB.

Saturday saw the lowest per play average (3.5) since Robinson was shown the door, second lowest net (1.9) and third lowest gross (3.16) yards per carry, 2nd lowest completion percentage (43.2).

This is not a complete rebuild on offense, but it was a complete regression to one of three worst performances since Robinson left.

The more I looked at it, the more it makes me really concerned about McDonald. That was my point there is a bad day at the office and then there is cluster incompetence. as I said, we should know where we stand in 3 weeks

 

[Chip]

I'm not taking it to the extreme that kcsu and the guy you are addressing are, they have a track record for being over the top wrong, but there was a major issue from a coaching perspective.

I'm not buying the new, new, new, inexperienced argument or lack of talent.

Now Nwestern's defense last year vs PSU the other day is much different, I conceed that but...

OL, Hickey, Trudo, and Sweet Lou played their first games ever last year vs Nwestern. Three OL with zero gamesnaps. The same can't be said of Foy or Robinson, who both played last year. Pugh didn't play

Skill positions, as I noted above the only players unavailable for this game that were for the opener last year, Sales, David Stevens and Cutler. That's it. Lemon didn't play in that game.

I get Nassib vs Allen, but Allen is not a true freshmen, he's a fifth year senior, he has been coached at the highest levels, and he has all the physical attributes you want in a QB.

Saturday saw the lowest per play average (3.5) since Robinson was shown the door, second lowest net (1.9) and third lowest gross (3.16) yards per carry, 2nd lowest completion percentage (43.2).

This is not a complete rebuild on offense, but it was a complete regression to one of three worst performances since Robinson left.

Minnesota game last year was worse. So since Robinson left there are only 2 more? Before you do the stat compare on Minnesota, and say that 350 yards is better, it's not. 83 yards and 7 (of 10) points in last 3 minutes of the game with them protecting a 14 point lead. Took 2:35, which Minny was fine with.

And that happened AFTER the Northwestern game you keep comparing to. How is that possible? Saturday was pretty bad, but I think you're overstating it. Let's give it just a couple more weeks and a couple different defenses.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m/

 

[jkmac]

I went back and watched each offensive play 5 times so I could see what each lineman did on every play. I've recently watched horror movies Insidious 2 and the Conjuring and what I saw in the first half was just as scary. I'm going to be polite and say I hope the right side of our line improves quickly or it's going to be a long year. Remember the congo line running plays where the entire line runs parallel trying to make a block while the entire Dl is blowing through the gaps? Well, it's back and what a disaster. I hope the playbook has more hat on hat blocking and inside trap plays . I'm going to hope the missed assignments and lack of mean streak and playcalling will be corrected for Northwestern

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Minnesota game last year was worse. So since Robinson left there are only 2 more? Before you do the stat compare on Minnesota, and say that 350 yards is better, it's not. 83 yards and 7 (of 10) points in last 3 minutes of the game with them protecting a 14 point lead. Took 2:35, which Minny was fine with.

And that happened AFTER the Northwestern game you keep comparing to. How is that possible? Saturday was pretty bad, but I think you're overstating it. Let's give it just a couple more weeks and a couple different defenses.

Well...

It shouldn't surprise anyone, but Go's really setting the stage for more Marrone Man Crushing. Really funny how Marrone was given EVERY benefit of the doubt by Go, but Go expected a rock fight this weekend, got the rock fight he was looking for, and is taking the opportunity to voice how horrible said rock fight wise and how that reflects on our new OC.

 

[rosconey]

same guys who think the giants can win without linebackers- think this wasnt a bad first game-

for the complete idiots who claim i am calling for his head- i said im not- but i dont expect morons to understand what ive posted

 

[Van111]

I agree with most everything here. The one thing I saw was a defense that is only going to get better. yes, they gave up 2 big plays that led to easy TD's, but were outright awesome on 3rd down. I thought we would squeak this one out, and we had our chance to. Over all, a lot of pressure on the offense, and it showed. Reality is we should have expected it. HCSS has a whole new team around him, and it showed.