OT: Dirk or Garnett?

[texasorange]

Dirk. He was always tall for his age. And I live in the Dallas area.

 

[Shawn91111]

KG for sure, better on the boards, better defensively and better passer. He could shoot with range and bang inside, could score just as well as Dirk.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This question came to me while watching the NBA playoffs this weekend:

Who would you rank higher on your list of greatest players ever: Dirk Nowitzki or Kevin Garnett, and why?

Neither one of them is in the top 10, IMO, and maybe not even top 25. One championship each. Garnett a great defensive player, but spent most of his career on a crappy team. Dirk was always close to the best, and at least he got one to validate his career.

But is Garnett so much better than, say, Tyson Chandler defensively (who also has a championship) or even as good as Robert Parish?

As for Dirk, he doesn't stack up with Larry Bird, obviously, as a PF. He's not even as good as Kevin McHale, although he's a better outside shooter. He's kind of like Jack Sikma, although I would say he's a better offensive player (again, equal number of rings).

Neither of them probably cracks a top 25 all time.

 

[Eric15]

Neither one of them is in the top 10, IMO, and maybe not even top 25. One championship each. Garnett a great defensive player, but spent most of his career on a crappy team. Dirk was always close to the best, and at least he got one to validate his career.

But is Garnett so much better than, say, Tyson Chandler defensively (who also has a championship) or even as good as Robert Parish?

As for Dirk, he doesn't stack up with Larry Bird, obviously, as a PF. He's not even as good as Kevin McHale, although he's a better outside shooter. He's kind of like Jack Sikma, although I would say he's a better offensive player (again, equal number of rings).

Neither of them probably cracks a top 25 all time.

I certainly agree that neither is Top 10, but not Top 25? I'd definitely have each of those guys somewhere in the 18-25 range. Garnett is Top 20 in NBA history in points, rebounds and blocks.

 

[Alsacs]

KG is a top 25 player all-time IMO. Dirk would be in my top 50 somewhere. KG's defense in prime was ridiculous.

 

[Shawn91111]

KG is a top 5 PF ever, Dirk just outside top 5

 

[Knicks411]

I think you would be hard-pressed to name 25 better players than Dirk or KG.

Thinking about it a little more, I think I'm leaning a little more strongly towards KG. Dirk really is still humming along though. His minutes are down from his peak, but he cracked a 60% true shooting this year and the turnover numbers are ridiculous. KG was a freaking monster though really about till last year. (Just checking his stats, this was actually his best defensive rebound% ever) But a guy like KG who was very good on offense and controlled a defense; hard to turn that down

 

[BostonOrange]

This question came to me while watching the NBA playoffs this weekend:

Who would you rank higher on your list of greatest players ever: Dirk Nowitzki or Kevin Garnett, and why?

Garnett and its not that close.

 

[Melancer46]

Personally, I'd go Dirk. Garnett is pretty close, but I don't have much hesitation picking Dirk. At the end of the day, Dirk was a bonafide go-to player that carried his team to an NBA title. Garnett was always better off as a #2 guy that anchored a defense. That's a great role to have, and it's good enough to put him among the best PFs to play the game, but Dirk could take it to a level that Garnett couldn't really replicate IMO. Dirk was also better in the playoffs, even if his teams weren't always successful, and his one run to the title was one of the greatest we will ever see.

Also, people can't argue both that Garnett was better because his supporting casts were crap and also argue about how impressive the volume of his numbers are. If he played with better teams, he never would have averaged close to 5 assists a game.

 

[Trueblue25]

KG is the better player than Dirk unless Dirk plays 2-3 more quality seasons. KG's supporting cast in Minnesota was crap. Marbury was traded for Terrel Brandon and crap. Joe Smith was junk even though he was a #1 overall pick. The only season they gave KG support in Minnesota with Sprewell and Cassell the TWolves made the West finals. If the Wolves were in the East during KG's prime they probably play in 1 or 2 Finals instead of the 76ers/Nets teams.

Dirk could never play defense and was only MVP in the 2007 in a terrible NBA season. Steve Nash and Dirk won MVPs in 3 straight years that is nuts when neither could play any defense. KG showed in Boston he could win a title with a good core. Give KG Jason Terry, Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Josh Howard he wins a title. Of course Bennett Salvadore costed Dirk the 2006 title so he does have that argument.

The best players of the Dirk/KG era IMO
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dirk Nowitski
6. Jason Kidd
7. Steve Nash
8. Pau Gasol
9. Paul Pierce
10. Ray Allen
10.

Interesting list.

What about Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Allen Iverson?

I love Nash and Gasol but I don't think they belong in that top 10.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Both have such incredible Longevity but Dirk's year where he won the championship puts him over the edge. That playoff performance was absolutely NUTS and something KG has never been able to do. WILL his team to win a championship although he obviously was main point in championship with Cs... KG can't nearly touch Dirk offensively

 

[IthacaBarrel]

KG for sure. His scoring numbers are down a bit compared to other stars, but during his prime he was able to dominate defensively and as a rebounder. That's a lot more rare of an attribute than being a high scorer.

Both in their prime, I'd take KG. But I think Dirk is awesome, as well. Tough choice.

Agreed, KG. Better all around player. Dirk just such a great scorer though as well. Put in this way, if I was starting a team, I would definitely go with KG, he brings intangibles as well..

 

[Melancer46]

Interesting list.

What about Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Allen Iverson?

I love Nash and Gasol but I don't think they belong in that top 10.

Agreed on Gasol, but Nash is a two time MVP and arguably the greatest offensive PG of all time. He should absolutely be up there.

 

[wallacecuse]

Both have such incredible Longevity but Dirk's year where he won the championship puts him over the edge. That playoff performance was absolutely NUTS and something KG has never been able to do. WILL his team to win a championship although he obviously was main point in championship with Cs... KG can't nearly touch Dirk offensively

It's not just the title, it's who they beat. The Mavs in '11 are the only team to win a playoff series vs. the LeBron-led Heat.

 

[Alsacs]

Interesting list.

What about Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Allen Iverson?

I love Nash and Gasol but I don't think they belong in that top 10.

Vince and McGrady were gifted offensive players who were horrible teammates and not better than any of those 10 guys I mentioned except maybe Ray Allen. Allen Iverson I could see ahead of Paul Pierce I forgot about him.

 

[Knicks411]

It's also hard to decide when an era started. Shaq was drafted in 92 for instance, and Gasol in 2001 i believe. Are they in the same era?

 

[Alsacs]

Fair enough take Gasol out put Iverson in. Shaq is part of that era same with J-Kidd. 92-02 ERA.
The best players of the Dirk/KG era IMO
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dirk Nowitski
6. Jason Kidd
7. Steve Nash
8. Allen Iverson
9. Paul Pierce
10. Ray Allen

 

[IthacaMatt]

I certainly agree that neither is Top 10, but not Top 25? I'd definitely have each of those guys somewhere in the 18-25 range. Garnett is Top 20 in NBA history in points, rebounds and blocks.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Jerry West
8. Larry Bird
9. Lebron James
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Tim Duncan
12. Shaquille O'Neill
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Moses Malone
15. Julius Irving
16. Karl Malone
17. Alan Iverson
18. Elvin Hayes
19. Bob Pettit
20. Bob Cousy
21. John Stockton
22. Wes Unseld
23. Dwight Howard
24. Tiny Archibald
25. Dennis Rodman
26. John Havlicek
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Willis Reed
29. Charles Barkley
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Isaiah Thomas
32. James Worthy
33. Dave Bing
34. Bill Bradley
35. Dwayne Wade

So, compared to that list, I could see you slotting Kevin Garnett in somewhere around 25, but maybe lower. Look at the guys you are comparing him and Nowitzki to.

 

[Eric15]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Jerry West
8. Larry Bird
9. Lebron James
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Tim Duncan
12. Shaquille O'Neill
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Moses Malone
15. Julius Irving
16. Karl Malone
17. Alan Iverson
18. Elvin Hayes
19. Bob Pettit
20. Bob Cousy
21. John Stockton
22. Wes Unseld
23. Dwight Howard
24. Tiny Archibald
25. Dennis Rodman
26. John Havlicek
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Willis Reed
29. Charles Barkley
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Isaiah Thomas
32. James Worthy
33. Dave Bing
34. Bill Bradley
35. Dwayne Wade

So, compared to that list, I could see you slotting Kevin Garnett in somewhere around 25, but maybe lower. Look at the guys you are comparing him and Nowitzki to.

Overall your list is very good, but here are players from my lifetime that I would put Dirk ahead of: Iverson, Rodman, Howard, Barkley, Ewing, Worthy. Comparing Dirk and Worthy's careers isn't even a contest. Worthy was third-team all-NBA twice, that's it. Also, no offense to our guy Dave Bing, but he's not in Dirk's league.

 

[Alsacs]

Overall your list is very good, but here are players from my lifetime that I would put Dirk ahead of: Iverson, Rodman, Howard, Barkley, Ewing, Worthy. Comparing Dirk and Worthy's careers isn't even a contest. Worthy was third-team all-NBA twice, that's it.

Bill Simmons book showed how overrated Worthy was. He was a slightly better version of Tom Chambers. Some of those guys don't even belong in the same sentence as KG and Dirk. Bill Bradley, Patrick Ewing, Dave Bing.

KG is probably right in the 20-25 range, and Dirk is probably in the 30-40s.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Jerry West
8. Larry Bird
9. Lebron James
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Tim Duncan
12. Shaquille O'Neill
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Moses Malone
15. Julius Irving
16. Karl Malone
17. Alan Iverson
18. Elvin Hayes
19. Bob Pettit
20. Bob Cousy
21. John Stockton
22. Wes Unseld
23. Dwight Howard
24. Tiny Archibald
25. Dennis Rodman
26. John Havlicek
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Willis Reed
29. Charles Barkley
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Isaiah Thomas
32. James Worthy
33. Dave Bing
34. Bill Bradley
35. Dwayne Wade

So, compared to that list, I could see you slotting Kevin Garnett in somewhere around 25, but maybe lower. Look at the guys you are comparing him and Nowitzki to.

Just get rid of Dwight Howard no way he touches dennis rodman's, DWades, Barkley, Bing... I would put Dirk in the top 30 and KG

 

[Knicks411]

I think I would put KG over Karl Malone. Though his durability was amazing. I would definitely put KG over AI, Wes Unseld, Dwight Howard, Tiny, and Rodman. For sure. Rodman was a great defender and rebounder, but so was KG (Rodman probably better on the glass, maybe better as a defender) but offensively it's not close. Probably Elvin Hayes too. Back half of the teens seems good for KG.

 

[NineOneSeven]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Jerry West
8. Larry Bird
9. Lebron James
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Tim Duncan
12. Shaquille O'Neill
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Moses Malone
15. Julius Irving
16. Karl Malone
17. Alan Iverson
18. Elvin Hayes
19. Bob Pettit
20. Bob Cousy
21. John Stockton
22. Wes Unseld
23. Dwight Howard
24. Tiny Archibald
25. Dennis Rodman
26. John Havlicek
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Willis Reed
29. Charles Barkley
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Isaiah Thomas
32. James Worthy
33. Dave Bing
34. Bill Bradley
35. Dwayne Wade

So, compared to that list, I could see you slotting Kevin Garnett in somewhere around 25, but maybe lower. Look at the guys you are comparing him and Nowitzki to.

Howard?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Fair enough take Gasol out put Iverson in. Shaq is part of that era same with J-Kidd. 92-02 ERA.
The best players of the Dirk/KG era IMO
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dirk Nowitski
6. Jason Kidd
7. Steve Nash
8. Allen Iverson
9. Paul Pierce
10. Ray Allen

You could argue for Zach Randolph as well. Slightly past some of these guys' careers, and he was often on losing teams, but he put up big and consistent numbers. If you had Pau there before, you have to have Zach. I'd have them 11-12, and I'm sure I am leaving someone else out.

 

[Alsacs]

i

You could argue for Zach Randolph as well. Slightly past some of these guys' careers, and he was often on losing teams, but he put up big and consistent numbers. If you had Pau there before, you have to have Zach. I'd have them 11-12, and I'm sure I am leaving someone else out.

I was giving Pau Gasol credit for being the 2nd best player on championship teams in 2009 and 2010, and runnerup in 2008. Randolph has never won anything. Also, Gasol was always the 2nd best all-around F of that KG generation behind KG IMO.