Rank the "True" Transfers

[PoppyHart]

i.e. not the JUCO kids

For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50%
1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year
2. Pure skill level at the college level

I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such:

1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo)
2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016)
3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success)
4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team)
5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond)
6. Cole (great practice player I hear)
7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

 

[dasher]

Leo was

i.e. not the JUCO kids

For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50%
1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year
2. Pure skill level at the college level

I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such:

1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo)
2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016)
3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success)
4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team)
5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond)
6. Cole (great practice player I hear)
7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

Leo was the MVP of the Big east tournament.

 

[br801]

i.e. not the JUCO kids

For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50%
1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year
2. Pure skill level at the college level

I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such:

1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo)
2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016)
3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success)
4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team)
5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond)
6. Cole (great practice player I hear)
7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

I would move Leo to the top of the list.

 

[bevosu]

1. As far as watching his game..Leo for his basketball IQ.

 

[baggerbob]

i.e. not the JUCO kids

For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50%
1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year
2. Pure skill level at the college level

I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such:

1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo)
2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016)
3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success)
4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team)
5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond)
6. Cole (great practice player I hear)
7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

Ellis played with Coleman, and Owens, none of the others played with anyone near their talent.

 

[PoppyHart]

Ellis played with Coleman, and Owens, none of the others played with anyone near their talent.

That's part of why he's 5th.

 

[SUGIANT]

I agree that Rautins should be at the top even though Wes has had a better NBA career

 

[Ghost]

i.e. not the JUCO kids

For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50%
1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year
2. Pure skill level at the college level

I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such:

1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo)
2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016)
3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success)
4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team)
5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond)
6. Cole (great practice player I hear)
7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

1. Wes - Wes! He's number one on any list!
2. Gbinije - Feels less like a transfer because he's been here three years, and we've seen him develop so much during his time here. Not sure where we would be without him.
3. Ellis - Barely remember him, but I recall being super-excited about him transferring in, and I recall him being solid and pretty talented.
4. Blackwell - Eh, I never really warmed to Blackwell. Solid player, but not much more. I expected way more from the hype when he first went to Illinois from Rochester. I'm sure if I looked up the stats they would surpass what I would guess if forced to.
NA. Cole - Ethan?
NA. Chukwu - We shall see.
NA. Leo - Before my time.

 

[rrlbees]

Leo definitely above G and a tough call between Wes and Leo. I'd probably put Leo at 1 simply because of 3 years vs 1.

 

[mark79]

i.e. not the JUCO kids For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50% 1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year 2. Pure skill level at the college level I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such: 1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo) 2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016) 3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success) 4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team) 5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond) 6. Cole (great practice player I hear) 7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

Jury is still out for me as far as where to rank G. A really deep tournament run by this team, however unlikely, would move him close to the top in my book. He's had an awesome year, and should be in discussions for ACC player of the year. If SU was having a better year I'm sure he would be in the hunt.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Leo has to be 1 because without him coming here, Andy might not have shown up here. Thus, he gets credit for AR and himself

 

[dasher]

I put Wes #1. He was the player of the year in the Big East. He helped make us the best team in the country. If not for AO's injury, we would be putting wes near the top of our all time greats.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

I put Wes #1. He was the player of the year in the Big East. He helped make us the best team in the country. If not for AO's injury, we would be putting wes near the top of our all time greats.

I agree with this. And as long as overall team success is a criteria, then that has to drag G down to 3rd I'd say, behind Wes and Leo.

 

[SWC75]

Leo was the star of the team for three years. If Wes had stayed another year, he might have rated #1. Leo defined an era, Wes a year.

 

[pfister1]

It's funny, Leo played on some really mediocre Syracuse teams. Without him JB may have had some of those losing seasons he's always managed to avoid '81-'82 in particular comes to mind. As it stood those teams had 6-8, 7-7 and 9-7 conference records with him. I have never ranked Leo as high as some I guess partly because I don't remember him that well. I remember the teams as being mediocre in between the extreme highs of the late 70s (Louie & Bouie era) and mid to late 80s (Pearl, Coleman & Douglas eras).

I would probably rank them:

1. Wes
2. Leo (because he's done a lot for the program off the court including steering Andy here - and I believe he has some responsibility for Ennis...no?)
3. Blackwell
4. G
5. Ellis

Others aren't worth ranking. Fred Saunders might fall in before some others such as Cole.

 

[SWC75]

The SU athletic site has Leo Rautins' full numbers as a senior in 1982-83 and Wes Johnson's one wear of 2009-10. here is a comparison (numbers per 40 minutes):

Leo Rautins: 31.8M 17.8P 9.2R 7.8A, 1.9S 0.5B = 37.2+ 6.8MFG 1.0MFT 4.5TO 3.6PF = 15.9- 21.3NP 10.0OE 11.3FG

Wes Johnson 35.0M 18.9P 9.8R 2.5A 1.9S 2.1B = 35.2+ 6.7MFG 1.1MFT 2.6TO 2.4PF = 12.8- 22.4NP 11.1OE 11.6FG

Pretty close, almost amazingly so. Leo had a huge advantage in assists but it was offset by more turnovers and fouls. Wes scored more but then he had the three point line, (Leo would have had a ton of three pointers.) Wes was a slightly better rebounder but blocked more shots. The 2009-10 ream was better than any of Leo's teams but for more reasons than Wes Johnson, including the presence of Leo's son Andy.

 

[CusefanATL]

never knew about this.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/04/29/le...ok-a-really-bad-mug-shot-has-aged-very-badly/

 

[dasher]

Leo was the star of the team for three years. If Wes had stayed another year, he might have rated #1. Leo defined an era, Wes a year.

Leo was a favorite of mine but he was never first team all big east. Wes was player of the year.

 

[OttoMets]

1. Wes - Wes!!! He's number on any list!
2. Gbinije - Feels less like a transfer because he's been here three years, and we've seen him develop so much during his time here. Not sure where we would be without him.
3. Ellis - Barely remember him, but I recall being super-excited about him transferring in, and I recall him being solid and pretty talented.
4. Blackwell - Eh, I never really warmed to Blackwell. Solid player, but not much more. I expected way more from the hype when he first went to Illinois from Rochester. I'm sure if I looked up the stats they would surpass what I would guess if forced to.
NA. Cole - Ethan?
NA. Chukwu - We shall see.
NA. Leo - Before my time.

Blackwell missed so many layups. Seemed frustrating back then, but he looks like a better player with the passage of time. He's actually fairly similar to Gbinije - jack of all trades, master of none. Gbinije's become a better shooter; he was a similarly shaky finisher for a couple years, but he's drifted out toward the perimeter as needed this season. Apart from a few times when Blackwell got stuck filling in at center, though, he got to play his natural position for most of his time here. Gbinije's probably made the most of an imperfect situation, dumped into a position for which he isn't suited.

I'd rank in this order, based on the 50% skills/50% success criteria:

Leo (very good talent, less successful teams, Nova win, 3 years > 1)
Wes (obvious talent winner, two frustrating performances in postseason losses, 1 < 3)
Ellis (solid, talented center; didn't play in a system that needed or allowed him to put up huge numbers; two underachieving postseasons on good teams)
Blackwell (complementary piece on very decent and maybe under-talented teams; crushed Notre Dame like it was his job)
Gbinije (extraordinary improvement in skills - unlike anyone else on this list, he's had a real raw freshman to productive senior development arc. And I think it's safe to say that he's a very good three-point shooter after years of work. Though Leo played a number of roles, Gbinije's the only guy on this list who's been a long-term starting point guard. That obviously has not been his strong suit, but he's also the only guy who's still playing - history looks very kindly on point guards whose teams make deep postseason runs. He'll be no different, should we string together some wins.)
Cole didn't even look overmatched to me; he was just unmemorable.

 

[Consigliere]

i.e. not the JUCO kids

For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50%
1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year
2. Pure skill level at the college level

I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such:

1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo)
2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016)
3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success)
4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team)
5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond)
6. Cole (great practice player I hear)
7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

Leo, by a landslide. After all Leo begat Andy, too!
G - Without him this team would not have won 10 f... OK, you get it, True leader and bleeds Orange
Wes - 1 year rule drops him at least one spot
Ryan - almost put him above Wes for longevity
LeRon - underachieved on an underachieving team
Cole - ummm... No.

PC - TBD

 

[orangepassion]

Would definitely put G ahead of Blackwell. Blackwell was a supporting player. G is our star

 

[jdubs30]

Leo was before my time -- but think of it this way:

If G was on that 09/10 team and Wes was on this year's team, how much would our seasons change? Wes was great but had a tremendous cast around him. Wes was a star but to me, G has much more of the "put the team on your back" type of mentality.

I think swapping the 2 wouldn't change the teams a whole lot, our D would obviously be worse without Wes in 2009; but to see G play off the ball and a true PG with him would have been something

 

[PoppyHart]

i.e. not the JUCO kids

For relative simplicity, I would consider 2 criteria, each weighted 50%
1. Importance to the team and program success, with caveat that someone who played 2-3 years in the system would, all things being equal, be rated higher than someone who was only here for 1 year
2. Pure skill level at the college level

I think I have everyone listed below. I would rank them as such:

1. Wes (was the best player on a special squad. better pure talent than Gbinije imo)
2. Gbinije (3 years in system, though ineffective as soph; best player on team Sr. year, but not at Wes' level; vital to team in 2015 and 16; "not 10 games" could apply for 2016; could supplant Wes with deep NCAA run in 2016)
3. Leo (3 yr do-everything staple, though not pure talent of Wes imo, and no post-season success)
4. Blackwell (3 yr player, solid not spectacular from day one in Orange. behind Hart and Thomas in importance to team)
5. Ellis (very talented, but never one of the top two players on team. Only 2 years with program. plus Richmond)
6. Cole (great practice player I hear)
7. Chukwu (Incomplete)

I'd like to revisit this, as stated above, and move G to #1.

 

[OttoMets]

I'd like to revisit this, as stated above, and move G to #1.

Amazing what a few made free throws will do for the big picture: how would Gbinije's legacy be viewed if we'd lost after going up 6 and having him inexplicably fire up a (missed) three right as the shot clock reset with ~2:30 left (fouling out Roberson in the process)?

That had Lawrence Moten's last game written all over it.

Now he gets a week of semi-rest and another chance against a conference rival who he matches up well with.

 

[Dave85]

1. As far as watching his game..Leo for his basketball IQ.

Leo probably was the zeitgeist and buzz that brought Pearl to the program.