Recruiting for the Zone and Early Departures

[AlpharettaCuse]

The weight of the pyramid falls on the top.
JB is first coach to ever get sanctions restricting postseason from the NCAA two times at one school.
He is responsible.
The NCAA can burn but JB is the head of the program.

The state of the program is on him.
JB pushed Hop out.
Next year will tell the next 4 years of the program. Frustration is not out of line.

Yeah that’s fine and all, but sometimes bad luck is part of it. And we’ve had our share. Can’t blame injuries on JB, right? Can’t blame JB for Diagne not getting cleared. You can blame JB for the sanctions, but that stuff was pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. JB is probably guilty of being too hands off if anything.

And that nonsense you keep spewing about Hopkins is just that.

 

[Alsacs]

Boeheim said he played point guard in high school as well. We have a poster here that saw Howard play point guard in high school as well. Maybe they are both lying too?

Jim Boeheim also said last year’s team was one of his best teams and was NC good.

He isn’t always right in what he says.
Howard isn’t a PG. He is a combo guard who can play PG.

 

[Ghost]

Boeheim said he played point guard in high school as well. We have a poster here that saw Howard play point guard in high school as well. Maybe they are both lying too?

I'm not sure anyone is arguing he NEVER played PG in high school. I would imagine EVERY SINGLE SUPER FANTASTIC AWESOME SHOOTING GUARD in America has, in some instances, played a decent bit of point guard whilst in high school and could be called capable of doing so. Even Cooney! Sorry, love you, TC!

You are really going to argue this point......you win! He was a point guard!!! Frank Howard was the all-time bestest most-minuted PG in high school history.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That’s actually my true. There are posters here claiming we don’t recruit offensive players.

How do you replace a Malachi Richardson? Bring in Tyus Battle. How do you replace Tyler Lydon in April?

Can’t really replace Taurean Thomson and Thorpe, right?

We knew Lydon was leaving in August of 2016.

JB is the reason Thorpe is gone.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Jim Boeheim also said last year’s team was one of the best teams and was NC good.

He isn’t always right in what he says.
Howard isn’t a PG. He is a combo guard who can play PG.

Well, that was JB’s opinion before they even played a game. He’s stating facts about Howard. I’ll take Boehiem’s word over the guy that hates Boeheim.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

We knew Lydon was leaving in August of 2016.

JB is the reason Thorpe is gone.

We did?

Why is thorpe gone? Where is he playing now?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I'm not sure anyone is arguing he NEVER played PG in high school. I would imagine EVERY SINGLE SUPER FANTASTIC AWESOME SHOOTING GUARD in America has, in some instances, played a decent bit of point guard whilst in high school and could be called capable of doing so. Even Cooney! Sorry, love you, TC!

You are really going to argue this point...you win! He was a point guard!!! Frank Howard was the all-time bestest most-minuted PG in high school history.

I mean, exactly. He did play point guard in high school. As did MCW. Now goodine is.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We did?

Why is thorpe gone? Where is he playing now?

JB was quoted by the Syracuse paper that his Sophomore year would be his last year. Look it up.

Where is Thorpe going to play mid season?

Is JB untouchable in your eyes?

 

[Alsacs]

Well, that was JB’s opinion before they even played a game. He’s stating facts about Howard. I’ll take Boehiem’s word over the guy that hates Boeheim.

I will say this one last time.
I don’t hate Jim Boeheim.
I am sick of the drama around the program. I am sick of watching awful basketball. I am sick of the program not making adjustments. I am sick of the staff not being prepared for players leaving.
JB pushed Hop out so he could coach his son. He is 73. The fact you think people who are sick of this stuff as haters of JB is just stupid.

Bill Belichick has done a ton more than JB and he takes crap from his fanbase. Fans don’t have to worship their coaches just support the guy. Which I do.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I guess the hard part of the evaluation is that we've run kids off. So, it's not like we're this feel good University that's been straddled with sanctions and no outs as we had to hold on to some dead weight.

We've sort of replaced dead weight with some more dead weight at times and just generally seem a bit mismanaged. I think there are a lot of reasons for our struggles, but when you're jumping off point is that you're Syracuse University, you have a track record of putting people in the NBA, etc...you shouldn't be having so many issues with roster management, player development, etc...I don't know. I'd argue more, but every day I switch my reasoning on what's to blame, and sometimes I just settle on on bad luck...hahaha, it's just been frustrating.

It may be less frustrating if we were more fun to watch...but we play some of the ugliest basketball in the country. I mean, we make mistakes I don't see at the HS level...We have guards that to this day remain oblivious to the fact that defenders may, in certain instances, come from behind you to steal the ball. haha That's like having a baseball team that keeps falling for the pick-off play at first base where the first baseman never throws the ball back to the pitcher.

Gotta blame JB right? Sanctions, bad luck and we missed on some kids like every other program. Perspective is a rare thing.

Who did we run off?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

JB was quoted by the Syracuse paper that his Sophomore year would be his last year. Look it up.

Where is Thorpe going to play mid season?

Is JB untouchable in your eyes?

Sometimes players come back depending on their season. Lydon probably didn’t even know then.

Thorpe probably should have stayed then. Since he’s not playing basketball.

JB isn’t going anywhere.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Sometimes players come back depending on their season. Lydon probably didn’t even know then.

Thorpe probably should have stayed then. Since he’s not playing basketball.

JB isn’t going anywhere.

Why do you move the goalposts so much?

Is JB above any criticism?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I will say this one last time.
I don’t hate Jim Boeheim.
I am sick of the drama around the program. I am sick of watching awful basketball. I am sick of the program not making adjustments. I am sick of the staff not being prepared for players leaving.
JB pushed Hop out so he could coach his son. He is 73. The fact you think people who are sick of this stuff as haters of JB is just stupid.

Bill Belichick has done a ton more than JB and he takes crap from his fanbase. Fans don’t have to worship their coaches just support the guy. Which I do.

Well your posts suggest otherwise.

 

[two3zone]

Gotta blame JB right? Sanctions, bad luck and we missed on some kids like every other program. Perspective is a rare thing.

Who did we run off?

JBs hands are clean from the sanctions?

Some kids?


Ran off Chinoso, BJ, Buss, and Kaleb.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Why do you move the goalposts so much?

Is JB above any criticism?

Absolutely not above criticism. I think there are reasons for the issues we have and they are obvious. But there are people here that are going to find a reason to pin them on JB.

We have a young team. We’ve won 18 games , which is about what we expected.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

JBs hands are clean from the sanctions?

Some kids?


Ran off Chinoso, BJ, Buss, and Kaleb.

What did JB do wrong?

Chino, Buss and Kaleb were terrible. BJ turned out ok, but he wasn’t very good when he was here. Kids transfer for their own reasons. Doesn’t mean we ran them off.

 

[two3zone]

Absolutely not above criticism. I think there are reasons for the issues we have and they are obvious. But there are people here that are going to find a reason to pin them on JB.

We have a young team. We’ve won 18 games , which is about what we expected.

It is what we expected, but when you lose to multiple teams missing one or two of their best players you may expect a few more.

 

[Alsacs]

Absolutely not above criticism. I think there are reasons for the issues we have and they are obvious. But there are people here that are going to find a reason to pin them on JB.

We have a young team. We’ve won 18 games , which is about what we expected.

The players are not paid.
Jim Boeheim is paid.

Who the hell gets the blame?
My god their isn’t a reason to pin them on the players. They aren’t breaking the law. If the players don’t break the law all they owe the fans is giving an effort.

The HC is in charge of the program. We have been mediocre for 4 years. This season isn’t the reason for frustration. It’s built up.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

It is what we expected, but when you lose to multiple teams missing one or two of their best players you may expect a few more.

Yeah, we should have beaten St Bonnie’s and Notre Dame. Could have won at Wake and at GT. That’s basketball.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

The players are not paid.
Jim Boeheim is paid.

Who the hell gets the blame?
My god their isn’t a reason to pin them on the players. They aren’t breaking the law. If the players don’t break the law all they owe the fans is giving an effort.

The HC is charge of the program. We have been mediocre for 4 years. This season isn’t the reason for frustration. It’s built up.

Boeheim can’t make shots either, despite being paid. Only so much JB can do.

So 4 years? Sounds like the struggle coincided with the NCAA investigation.

 

[manleyzoo]

One collateral consequence of the Syracuse zone is that it leads to guys leaving before we get top-end performance from them at the college level. When we recruit for the zone, we recruit tall, rangy, athletic guys. Those guys are oozing with "upside potential," which makes them attractive candidates to be drafted as an early entry even if they haven't yet delivered big-time performance at the college level. As a result, we're in the dilemma that we often lose guys who are "ready" to turn pro in the sense that they have interest from NBA teams, but haven't yet delivered on their potential through big-time production at the college level.

Teams that don't consistently recruit tall, rangy guys with "NBA bodies" don't have this same problem. I'm not saying we should stop playing zone or stop recruiting for the zone, but this is a fact of life flowing from the defense we play and the way we recruit.

It's really a problem, as you say. Why not stop playing all zone all the time? If it's losing us guys who are NBA ready only by potential, even though to a man those guys are dinged for playing in a zone their whole time at SU, wouldn't we be better off recruiting the best available basketball players we can get and then coaching them up? Why exclude some players because they don't fit the zone? That just has never made sense to me, except it's easier then to say we can't play any other defense or motion offense, or, oh what a nightmare, run a fast break.

I think everybody recruits tall, rangy athletic guys, especially elite programs. We are recruiting the same players as Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, and Arizona, whom all play man to man defense.

Except we don't get any of the players those schools recruit.

 

[Alsacs]

Boeheim can’t make shots either, despite being paid. Only so much JB can do.

So 4 years? Sounds like the struggle coincided with the NCAA investigation.

We lost 2 scholarships per year when JB hasn’t used all available scholarships in a season expect one time since 2007.
So instead of giving walkons a scholarship we lost that right.

Sanctions cost us one player Kevin Huerter.

The HC and Mike Hopkins spent 2 summers of the sanctions with USA basketball. So the restriction on coaching recruiting wasn’t harmful when 2 coaches were out of the country.

Sanctions aren’t the sole or main reason why we have been mediocre.
We survived a lot better in 1994 after the sanctions from that.

This roster has been bungled.
You give JB a full pass. This crap is on the person paid.

 

[rrlbees]

Boeheim said he played point guard. His high school coach said he played point guard. What kid coming in isn’t learning on the job? Howard has been really good this season and he’s not part of our scoring issues.

FYI. What Mason said a month ago when someone questioned Frank playing any PG in HS.

Why does this misinformation get repeated over and over? He played at Paul VI, which is about 7 miles from where I live, and I saw him play quite a lot of PG in the games that I went to. He wasn't used exclusively at PG, but he did play at least half his minutes at the point in the games I saw. I know he played off the ball most of the time in AAU and at most of the summer camps but saying he never played PG in high school is incorrect.

 

[manleyzoo]

Yeah, we should have beaten St Bonnie’s and Notre Dame. Could have won at Wake and at GT. That’s basketball.

But we didn't. That's basketball.

 

[Alsacs]

FYI. What Mason said a month ago when someone questioned Frank playing any PG in HS.

Cmon Bees you know Howard is a combo guard.
He isn’t a PG or SG. He is a guy who can play both but isn’t a pure PG. He is carrying the team this year and playing well but he isn’t a PG.
We recruited Joseph to be the PG and Howard would backup both PG and SG.