Season w/Thorpe and Thompson

[Bayside44]

A lot of people were talking themselves into it being fine without TT.

Having a big who is a pure scorer is better than not having that guy.

 

[chugg21]

Are you sure JB did a good job? According to some posters coaching is our problem. Because, we have such a deep and talented roster..

We beat the teams we were better than and lost to the ones that we were worse than. I'm going to bet that we lost more games that we were favored in than vice versa. I'm not sure that I would really consider a season like this to be some kind of crowning achievement. Hey let's throw our 5 most talented players on the court and let them play the better part of 40 mins and run the same offense and defense all game, every game. Coach of the year material.

 

[Eric15]

And why doesn’t that factor into our resume?

Because the committee couldn't care less about our internal drama.

 

[djorange1989]

We beat the teams we were better than and lost to the ones that we were worse than. I'm going to bet that we lost more games that we were favored in than vice versa. I'm not sure that I would really consider a season like this to be some kind of crowning achievement. Hey let's throw our 5 most talented players on the court and let them play the better part of 40 mins and run the same offense and defense all game, every game. Coach of the year material.

you do realize we have only seven scholarship players available? you want JB to toss the water boy in there? perhaps with all that depth we should play a Nolan Richardson 4o minutes of hell press and everyone can foul out.

 

[two3zone]

Thorpe to me is a big game changer. He is an offensive threat and we dont have enough of them.

Possible he would've led us in 3pt percentage

 

[Spock344]

He had a bad ankle for the MD game. He not got totally healthy. He would have helped when he got right.

when... exactly.

Sure, he wouldve helped with giving a few breathers. He was serviceable, but even before MD, he wasn't a game-changer. The only way he could've helped is w/ JB running a 3 guard lineup (which I doubt JB would've used much)... whereby you keep GT on the wing and kick to him if a guard drives the lane, for a 3-pter (an unlikely scenario since TB rarely passes on a drive). The main part of the problem is that JB doesn't run any offensive sets... lots of standing around out there. All the (double) high picks were effectively useless -- boggles my mind, why bother to pick if the bigs are clueless what to do after it... AND Battle/Howard merely stay up top to force a 3, or contested runner/jumper in the lane, after milking the shot clock. Therefore, IMO, GT would be another 1-on-1 player forced to primarily create on his own. Having a 3rd ISO 1-on-1 player doesn't make the team better. For the defense, it's a matter of "which guard will go 1-on-1 this time?"

 

[cuseinseattle]

when... exactly.

Sure, he wouldve helped with giving a few breathers. He was serviceable, but even before MD, he wasn't a game-changer. The only way he could've helped is w/ JB running a 3 guard lineup (which I doubt JB would've used much)... whereby you keep GT on the wing and kick to him if a guard drives the lane, for a 3-pter (an unlikely scenario since TB rarely passes on a drive). The main part of the problem is that JB doesn't run any offensive sets... lots of standing around out there. All the (double) high picks were effectively useless -- boggles my mind, why bother to pick if the bigs are clueless what to do after it... AND Battle/Howard merely stay up top to force a 3, or contested runner/jumper in the lane, after milking the shot clock. Therefore, IMO, GT would be another 1-on-1 player forced to primarily create on his own. Having a 3rd ISO 1-on-1 player doesn't make the team better. For the defense, it's a matter of "which guard will go 1-on-1 this time?"

He hurt his ankle in practice before exhibition games started. If you only watched him play for SU then you never saw him healthy. He shot around 36% from 3 and averaged 15 points and 4 assists the year before on a bad team. If you don't think we could have used that on this years team fair enough, I disagree.

 

[shu 49]

Thompson makes us a tournament no doubt.

He could slide between the 4 and 5.

We would have 4 offensive threats and not lost all those crap games.

With all due respect his defense was absolutely the worst I have seen since I started watching in 80. I have no use for a lack luster defender who doesn’t care about d or rebounds. In the beginning we loved that he got mad but then I noticed it was only during o that he would get mad. He easily gave up as much or more than he scored. I wish we had Gino but I’m not liking people who quit. It happened for a reason and I’m glad.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I know it's all speculation but I'm curious what everyone thinks, how different would this season have been if Thorpe and Thompson stayed?

We woulda won the National Championship!

 

[STEVEHOLT]

they probably win the notre dame game and the wake forrest game. maybe FSU too. so even though in the aggregate their "WAR" would be quite small, we are at a point in the win curve where a small bit of added WAR greatly effects our tournament resume.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

With all due respect his defense was absolutely the worst I have seen since I started watching in 80. I have no use for a lack luster defender who doesn’t care about d or rebounds. In the beginning we loved that he got mad but then I noticed it was only during o that he would get mad. He easily gave up as much or more than he scored. I wish we had Gino but I’m not liking people who quit. It happened for a reason and I’m glad.

 

[orangenauburn]

they probably win the notre dame game and the wake forrest game. maybe FSU too. so even though in the aggregate their "WAR" would be quite small, we are at a point in the win curve where a small bit of added WAR greatly effects our tournament resume.

And not an 11 in ACC playing UNC round two

 

[pfister1]

People are funny in their evaluations. Neither player had to be great to have had a significant impact on the team.

That said I think Taurean Thompson would have made a huge difference in this team. We played the entire season with basically a donut at the 4. Sure MD showed signs of doing some nice things at times and MM looked tough on the boards at times, but they were repeatedly abused on defense and brought next to nothing on offense the majority of the time. TT might not have been great on defense, but I think that factor is overstated. I think the impact on the team defense would have been easily overcome by the positive impact that his ability to score in the post and his short range game would have brought. It isn't so much his ppg, but I think having an actual threat in the post and in the mid range could have really opened up the offense and made things easier on FH, TB and OB.

The evaluations of Thorpe are absolutely classic. The guy didn't have to do much to be a net positive. At a minimum he would have given JB a more trusted option to throw on the floor for a few minutes when bad Frank showed up or a change of pace shooting when we were having one of our 0 fer the half kind of performances from three.

You can never tell what individual personalities might do to team chemistry, but taking that out of the equation there is no question in my mind that we win 3-5 more games with these two and we are easily off of the bubble.

 

[MELOKEITH]

TT would have at least been an improvement in the pick and roll or pick and pop. Could catch the ball and shoot. In my opinion that was our biggest issue on offense. Nobody ever really had to respect that high screen which is the only true offensive play we run.

I’m of the opinion in the long run you’re better off without headcases so good riddance, but to answer the question in x’s and o’s in theory we win at least a few more games.

 

[General20]

They'd be right on the edge of the top 10, probably 1oth, with Thorpe and Thompson.

I dont think they'd be the 10th best team in college basketball, just ranked 1oth (they had a pretty favorable schedule this year).

Here is the reason I say this ...

There are 2 teams currently in the top 10 with 7 losses. Take away all of SU's losses to the best teams on their schedule (Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Virginia) and take away any other game they lost big (Boston College). Now just look at games they lost at the very end against bad teams because they couldn't score. There are 6. OT to St. Bonaventure, 2OT to Florida St, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, and NC State.

Gino Thorpe was a 16 ppg sorer last year who could hit 3's (don't go by the injured version you of him you saw with Syracuse, in this fantasy he's playing healthy for us). Thompson would have easily been a 15ppg scorer as well. He would have hurt us defensively, but Boeheim could have subbed him situationally with Moyer when we were scoring and needed the extra D. I don't think its a stretch, at all, to say those two guys (and you, know, actually being able to bench some of our guys without needing to play Dolezaj at center or play a walk-on) could account for 6 points per game more than we were able to produce without them. Add those 6 extra points per game and we beat all 6 of the above mentioned bad teams we had close losses against. That leaves SU with a record of 26-7 which puts them right around 10th in the country ... maybe a 3 seed.

 

[Lucid]

A Thompson and Thorpe who were all in, bleeding Orange, thrilled-to-be-here; or a Thompson and Thorpe who were disgruntled, dissatisfied, and miserable?

It makes a difference.

 

[Lucid]

They'd be right on the edge of the top 10, probably 1oth, with Thorpe and Thompson.

I dont think they'd be the 10th best team in college basketball, just ranked 1oth (they had a pretty favorable schedule this year).

Here is the reason I say this ...

There are 2 teams currently in the top 10 with 7 losses. Take away all of SU's losses to the best teams on their schedule (Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Virginia) and take away any other game they lost big (Boston College). Now just look at games they lost at the very end against bad teams because they couldn't score. There are 6. OT to St. Bonaventure, 2OT to Florida St, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, and NC State.

Gino Thorpe was a 16 ppg sorer last year who could hit 3's (don't go by the injured version you of him you saw with Syracuse, in this fantasy he's playing healthy for us). Thompson would have easily been a 15ppg scorer as well. He would have hurt us defensively, but Boeheim could have subbed him situationally with Moyer when we were scoring and needed the extra D. I don't think its a stretch, at all, to say those two guys (and you, know, actually being able to bench some of our guys without needing to play Dolezaj at center or play a walk-on) could account for 6 points per game more than we were able to produce without them. Add those 6 extra points per game and we beat all 6 of the above mentioned bad teams we had close losses against. That leaves SU with a record of 26-7 which puts them right around 10th in the country ... maybe a 3 seed.

This is 100% nonsense. And I love it!

 

[SoBeCuse]

They'd be right on the edge of the top 10, probably 1oth, with Thorpe and Thompson.

I dont think they'd be the 10th best team in college basketball, just ranked 1oth (they had a pretty favorable schedule this year).

Here is the reason I say this ...

There are 2 teams currently in the top 10 with 7 losses. Take away all of SU's losses to the best teams on their schedule (Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Virginia) and take away any other game they lost big (Boston College). Now just look at games they lost at the very end against bad teams because they couldn't score. There are 6. OT to St. Bonaventure, 2OT to Florida St, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, and NC State.

Gino Thorpe was a 16 ppg sorer last year who could hit 3's (don't go by the injured version you of him you saw with Syracuse, in this fantasy he's playing healthy for us). Thompson would have easily been a 15ppg scorer as well. He would have hurt us defensively, but Boeheim could have subbed him situationally with Moyer when we were scoring and needed the extra D. I don't think its a stretch, at all, to say those two guys (and you, know, actually being able to bench some of our guys without needing to play Dolezaj at center or play a walk-on) could account for 6 points per game more than we were able to produce without them. Add those 6 extra points per game and we beat all 6 of the above mentioned bad teams we had close losses against. That leaves SU with a record of 26-7 which puts them right around 10th in the country ... maybe a 3 seed.

Wow. Pump the brakes, man!