Should ACC consider Bball only offer to ND and Nova?

[ACCBballFan]

ACC commish John Swofford has clearly said he is against this.

But in your opinion, should the ACC consider giving Notre Dame and either Nova or G-town Bball only status to temporarily get to 16?

ND is #19 academically, G-town #22 and Nova is rated top eastern regional private school.

ACC would have no interest in the other BE Bball only schools who do not fit either academically or geographically, while causing conference to be too big.

Marquette is #82 in academics but too far west. DePaul has both strikes #132 and distance while Seton Hall is also #132 and not very good. Saint John's in 152 and Providence is also not very good.

ACC North - BC, Cuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, MD, (G-town or Nova), UVA and VA Tech

ACC South - UNC, Duke, NC St, Wake, Clemson, GA Tech, FSU and Miami.

This solves the problem of having to move one Southern team North, and is kind of a here's the keys, take it for a test drive with ND.

It also gives Nova a chance to show whether there is any commitment to football long term (by 2015 when ND TV contract renews)

Personal opinion only, no link.

 

[JohnCuse44]

No having basketball onlies is what got the Big East in trouble to begin with.

 

[IthacaMatt]

ACC commish John Swofford has clearly said he is against this.

But in your opinion, should the ACC consider giving Notre Dame and either Nova or G-town Bball only status to temporarily get to 16?

ND is #19 academically, G-town #22 and Nova is rated top eastern regional private school.

ACC would have no interest in the other BE Bball only schools who do not fit either academically or geographically, while causing conference to be too big.

Marquette is #82 in academics but too far west. DePaul has both strikes #132 and distance while Seton Hall is also #132 and not very good. Saint John's in 152 and Providence is also not very good.

ACC North - BC, Cuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, MD, (G-town or Nova), UVA and VA Tech

ACC South - UNC, Duke, NC St, Wake, Clemson, GA Tech, FSU and Miami.

This solves the problem of having to move one Southern team North, and is kind of a here's the keys, take it for a test drive with ND.

It also gives Nova a chance to show whether there is any commitment to football long term (by 2015 when ND TV contract renews)

Personal opinion only, no link.

NO. No mixed leagues. Notre Dame or Texas can keep their own contract money, if they agree to take a lesser share for the conference's football games - 50% of the conference's cut for football, since the other 50% will be on their own networks.

 

[orange79]

No. Just no. Different agendas, dead weight.

 

[Moontan]

I nominate you to be the NNBE's next commissioner. Looking out for the basketball-only programs is the primary requirement.

 

[SkanSU]

No,Nyet, Never, Non, etc. We don't want another BE fiasco...we are looking for stability. We don't want the tail wagging the dog (i.e. Notre Dame)

 

[arbitragegls]

...why? We just removed ourselves from a split sports league...now we dive in again. Yes ND would be a great brand to have in our overall logo; but...and a big but...not going to be a good thing without all sports all in mentality.

Now that BE will expand (and losing a couple or more teams to the Big 12; the SEC wanting to expand; which touches off the Big 10...let's review the landscape and see if two other teams remain. I personally think Uconn should come aboard eventually...but lets not rush to conclusion and certainly not incite a sports split conference ever again...

 

[EastCoast2]

No. we left instability for stability. And you want to add 2 bball only schools for 4-5 years and see what happens?

 

[stuckinbig11]

No way, ever. NEVER, especially ND. The Big East was dumb to ever agree to their terms long ago.

 

[jordoo]

NOOOO a 1000 times. This is what we are fleeing from.

 

[DezisOrange]

First off...no...never...ever...for anybody. Number two as an avowed all time ND hater I can never for the life of me understand why anybody keeps coming up with suggestions to try and help this selfish "independant" school. All in or all out.! Please all of college football...make'em join a league...or stay independant in football and your other teams die! The BE for all intents and purposes raised all their sporting programs from the dead and gave them high national profile...all for a BE game a year and a bowl beth that comes outta our conference (or whatever the deal is) and the deal has always been one sided. For years they could have been all in (even keep your TV money) and helped save the league. Didn't do it. Beneath them. They are not in our league for football. But as has been reported by others (way more knowledgeable than I)they got to vote on and voted no to the last espn tv contract offer for the BE. Which turned out to being one of the last straws for SU and Pitt and puts us at where we are today. I have felt this way since the beginning...no other conference of the larger ones but ours makes that deal, but our former one. You want to leverage your great name and considerable tv presence as an independant in football by allowing some league the "gracious opportunity" for a game or so a year, for the opportunity to park your other teams in a conference...I can think of many conferences willing...Sun Belt,WAC,A10,etc. They should be more than happy to make that deal. Any other conference with any self respect, power or whatever should always tell ND to p*** off! And the cherry on top of it all is...their football sucks! Year after year of top 10 or 5 recruiting classes and they don't even win! We beat'em with a GRob team! ( you may not have noticed...I HATE ND!)

 

[Janner]

It will not happen but I go with yes, with a few conditions, and probably not for a few years. First you have to wait and see what happens with the rest of the NBE and ND.

IMO what caused disruption in the NBE was the large amount of basketball only schools and their power when it came to voting. If you could figure out a way gave Nova and GT limited power (only vote on basketball/olympic sports issues) then this could work. Getting into Philly and locking up DC would help to further solidify the east cost, increase revenue, build rivalries (GT vs Maryland would be real interesting), solve some of the conference balance issues, and escalate ACC basketball as unquestionably the best basketball league in the nation.

The problem is ND. One of the main reasons the ACC did not go beyond 14 was to have a spot available for ND. If you start offering basketball/Olympic sport only membership you would never have a shot at getting them as a all sports member.

 

[Cuseman78]

Trust on this -- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[jordoo]

The problem is ND. One of the main reasons the ACC did not go beyond 14 was to have a spot available for ND. If you start offering basketball/Olympic sport only membership you would never have a shot at getting them as a all sports member.

I understand that the ACC is holding out to land a big name in fball (ND) and I think its a very good stratigic move. But Nova seriously anyone considering this is totally missing the big picture. Nova has no D1 football and can't support it. In the big picture of the eventual 4x16 pwer leagues bball onlies have no place. Taking one into your conference only weakens your position, makes you look foolish and then leaves you trying to figure out how to dismiss them later without looking even worse. I could see adding ND as an all sports but fball + grabbing a 16th team of their choice figuring that eventually when things go 4x16 they would bring their fball. Personally I'd never do that unless they signed some all in time frame thing like 2-3 years max.
BBall only schools are not going to figure in this new power alignment. They may do OK for a while in a BE bball only conference but not long term. Think about a bball league without any of the fball schools. No Pitt, SU, UConn, WVU, LVille, Cinci or ND. So basically your looking at a conference who's best programs are Nova, Gtown and St. Johns. Look at whats left:

Nova: very good bball program but not quite premier.
Gtown: historically good but JTIII has been sliding already the last few years.
Johnies: historically good and Lavin did great last year but just lost 3 of his big class.
Marquette: historically good and have been scrappy under Bizz.
The Hall: when was the last time they were good.
Providence: a few good years.
DePaul: historically good but very bad of late.

Thats 7 teams so they probably add 1 to get to 8 but who? They would have NYC, Pilly and DC covered geographcally but would they really have them covered recruiting wise for very long? I doubt it! Even teams like Prov and the Hall who have had some decent years will have an eve harder time with less money and exposure. The power of the BE in bball really lies with the fball teams these days. What is the BE in bball without SU, Pitt, UConn, Lville and WVU?

 

[orangefan13]

Im going to take a diference stance Hear me out.

YES

To summurize.
1. Now is the time to go to a megaconference the big east is falling apart.
2. You have to realize the ACC will either stay small or go really big. All those teams want to play Duke and UNC twice. The other alternative is to worry less about that and make a Megatough conference (something Duke and UNC are afraid of believe me). Personally I feel they should grab Uconn, Gtown, Nova, ND for basketball. Then we will own the eastern coastline outside of Florida University.
3. As far as money is concerned the ACC won't lose money on having Nova and Gtown in the conference. They will only have to split more of the tv basketball money. They don't need the football profits.
4. I don't like us being up so far north with pitt, and bc for the long run. Just not enough firepower in one area.
5. The new big east wasn't a debacle. Sure all the teams lost more, but It was all about competitons , the top talented teams filled with athleticism, and slightly less about rivalries like the 12 league conferences have waited for that one-two games year after year.
6. The New Big easts downfall was not having a great march madness last year, and a few other years they kind of thought the same. With already having Duke and UNC that will not happen. The universe wouldn't let it.


Bottom line I would rather see the basketball go to a megaconference then everyone crying to play Duke and UNC twice. You will still get to play them once a year and it won't seem like the mid-low half of the big ten from the bottom half of the ACC down. Add Gtown, and Nova and thats two other Big games to look forward to instead of VT, Clemson, and Wake Forest, and Virginia.
More losses, more meltdowns, but we will have so much talent and be just as deadly as anyone every march.

 

[jordoo]

bball onlies will be powerless long term so its not a power move to grab them for your conference. They cannot support a conference on their own that would compete with the ACC.

Its not anything to argue about anyways because the ACC required D1 fball to join.

 

[EastCoast2]

Im going to take a diference stance Hear me out.

YES

To summurize.
1. Now is the time to go to a megaconference the big east is falling apart.
2. You have to realize the ACC will either stay small or go really big. All those teams want to play Duke and UNC twice. The other alternative is to worry less about that and make a Megatough conference (something Duke and UNC are afraid of believe me). Personally I feel they should grab Uconn, Gtown, and Nova. Then we will own the eastern coastline outside of Florida University.
3. As far as money is concerned the ACC won't lose money on having Nova and Gtown in the conference. They will only have to split more of the tv basketball money. They don't need the football profits.
4. I don't like us being up so far north with pitt, and bc for the long run. Just not enough firepower in one area.
5. The new big east wasn't a debacle. Sure all the teams lost more, but It was all about competitons , the top talented teams filled with athleticism, and slightly less about rivalries like the 12 league conferences have waited for that one-two games year after year.
Bottom line I would rather see the basketball go to a megaconference then everyone crying to play Duke and UNC twice. More losses, more meltdowns, but we will have so much talent and be just as deadly as anyone every march.

We want UConn to be on the outside looking in. If UConn gets left in the dust, it will be good for SU. Why? UConn will either stay in a worse BE, or become a glorified UMass. This will allow SU to swoop in on all top prospects from New England. You think they'll want to play for UConn if they join the B10? What about A-10? What about a watered down BE with Navy, Army, TCU, SMU, USF etc?

Trust me, UConn fans want SU to die also, it's a northeast turf war for recruits that they are currently kicking out @$$ in. Want Nerlens Noel? Goodluck Okonoboh? Guys like Andre Drummond, Kemba Walker, Ben Gordon. We need to dominate NE bball recruiting. We should be on the top 5/ top 3 list of every top recruit in the Northeast, and that will happen if UConn becomes irrelevant.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Im going to take a diference stance Hear me out.

YES

To summurize.
1. Now is the time to go to a megaconference the big east is falling apart.
2. You have to realize the ACC will either stay small or go really big. All those teams want to play Duke and UNC twice. The other alternative is to worry less about that and make a Megatough conference (something Duke and UNC are afraid of believe me). Personally I feel they should grab Uconn, Gtown, Nova, ND for basketball. Then we will own the eastern coastline outside of Florida University.
3. As far as money is concerned the ACC won't lose money on having Nova and Gtown in the conference. They will only have to split more of the tv basketball money. They don't need the football profits.
4. I don't like us being up so far north with pitt, and bc for the long run. Just not enough firepower in one area.
5. The new big east wasn't a debacle. Sure all the teams lost more, but It was all about competitons , the top talented teams filled with athleticism, and slightly less about rivalries like the 12 league conferences have waited for that one-two games year after year.

Bottom line I would rather see the basketball go to a megaconference then everyone crying to play Duke and UNC twice. You will still get to play them once a year and it won't seem like the mid-low half of the big ten from the bottom half of the ACC down. Add Gtown, and Nova and thats two other Big games to look forward to instead of VT, Clemson, and Wake Forest, and Virginia.
More losses, more meltdowns, but we will have so much talent and be just as deadly as anyone every march.

:crazy::bat::crazy::bang:

 

[orangefan13]

:crazy::bat::crazy::bang:

Which part????

I think its funny how people say we will lose money that way but nobody can say how. If they lose money that bad for basketball then how did they stay in buisness?
I was under the impression it was a espn tv deal and not having good football that put the Big East as a not so good money maker. :noidea:

 

[Antiprodigy]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

This is crazy! Why create the same problem that was the achilles heel of the BE?

 

[jordoo]

We want UConn to be on the outside looking in. If UConn gets left in the dust, it will be good for SU. Why? UConn will either stay in a worse BE, or become a glorified UMass. This will allow SU to swoop in on all top prospects from New England. You think they'll want to play for UConn if they join the B10? What about A-10? What about a watered down BE with Navy, Army, TCU, SMU, USF etc?

Trust me, UConn fans want SU to die also, it's a northeast turf war for recruits that they are currently kicking out @$$ in. Want Nerlens Noel? Goodluck Okonoboh? Guys like Andre Drummond, Kemba Walker, Ben Gordon. We need to dominate NE bball recruiting. We should be on the top 5/ top 3 list of every top recruit in the Northeast, and that will happen if UConn becomes irrelevant.

Big picture this is correct. If UConn gets left out or winds up in the BIG10 or some bastardized BIG12 for a while then its going to help our recruiting big time and hurt theirs. I'm torn a bit because we have had so many great games against them over the years, but taking any sort of sentimental rivalry feelings out of play SU in the ACC is much better off not having to fight over top recruits in the northneast with UConn. And if UConn lands anywhere other than the ACC I think that will give us the upper hand in that area even if it takes a few years.

 

[orangefan13]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

This is crazy! Why create the same problem that was the achilles heel of the BE?

Just for conversation.

Whos to say The Big Easts problem was what they lost not what they had. BC, Miami and VT look how strong they were in the old big east. Look how strong their football is now.

For basketball you want lots of good teams otherwise the athleticism could end up subpar to another conference or two outside of Duke and UNC. Look how maryland has crashed since their championship. Look at NCstate since their miracle run.

Also what are we afraid of Uconn now. So they beat us for a recruit or two in our area and we beat them for a recruit or two in theirs :noidea:

 

[newmexicuse]

We want UConn to be on the outside looking in. If UConn gets left in the dust, it will be good for SU. Why? UConn will either stay in a worse BE, or become a glorified UMass. This will allow SU to swoop in on all top prospects from New England. You think they'll want to play for UConn if they join the B10? What about A-10? What about a watered down BE with Navy, Army, TCU, SMU, USF etc?

Trust me, UConn fans want SU to die also, it's a northeast turf war for recruits that they are currently kicking out @$$ in. Want Nerlens Noel? Goodluck Okonoboh? Guys like Andre Drummond, Kemba Walker, Ben Gordon. We need to dominate NE bball recruiting. We should be on the top 5/ top 3 list of every top recruit in the Northeast, and that will happen if UConn becomes irrelevant.

I think time has shown that we can have a very strong hoops program without relying upon the Death of Uconn. There will always be somebody else out there. In the course of the BE we have seen Georgetown, St Johns, UConn, & Pitt all have turns on the top. It is weird that we always were there throughout the rise & fall of others, but somehow, we never seemed to have a dominent multi-year intraconference stretch. We have easily been the most consistant BE program.

I am glad for us that we have made our move. I am very optimistic that the move will work out well for us.

As to our BE brethern, I do not wish any of them poorly.
Over time our rivalries with those schools will diminish and fall by the wayside. It will matter less & less to us who they are & how they do.

As to recruiting, this move should make our footprint expand deeper into the South and more strongly into the DC - MD - VA area. We will always be tough in the NE. We can't take em all anyways - plenty to go around.

Forward going, best to focus on Duke & NC rather than on UConn.

 

[EastCoast2]

Just saying, look at the top players from VA and NC over the past 5 years, how many of them went to Dook or UNC? Would be nice to see SU dominate NY, NJ, MA like they do down there, while keeping our Philly/Bmore pipelines

 

[EastCoast2]

Just off the top of my head, players from VA/NC include

Kendall Marshall
PJ Hairston
Reggie Bullock
James McAdoo
Mike Gbinjie
Josh Hairston
Seth Curry
Ryan Kelly