So Babers is sold on Shrader?

[cuse309]

Maybe this has been pointed out, so forgive me if someone had a similar take. 15 pages is a lot to read through.
My take on the QB battle is this: Tommy's arm is what it is. It's obviously better than G.S. Tommy as far as a running threat, is what he is. He's as polished a runner as he is going to be. Although Tommy has speed, he lacks the open field vision, and elusiveness that G.S. brings. G.S. is much more decisive, and quicker in his decision making. So I feel like Tommy has reached his ceiling at this point in his throwing and running. G.S. on the other hand can still grow a lot in the passing game. Consider that he played vs. SEC defenses, as a true freshman, and did manage to have some good passing games, with numbers that paired with our running attack, and defense would be acceptable.
Vs.
Kentucky: 17-22 180 yards. 1 int
#7 Auburn: 12-23 209 yards 2 td
#2 LSU: 17-28 238 yds 1td 2 int
TAMU 13-30 194 3 td 1 int
Ol' Miss 10-14 108
Now keep in mind that he did that vs. SEC defenses as a true freshman. Are these world beater numbers? No. But this tells me, that he is capable vs ACC defenses of having lines like 15-20 200 yds and a TD. He's still learning this system as well. Gives me hope going forward, that Shrader can at least be a threat to throw it, that the defenses will need to respect. And the O-line is going to need to improve in pass protection if we're going to really see what he can do throwing it.

 

[djorange1989]

My fault - did a quick look and included games they played in, rather than started.

Good catch.

EDIT: So using your numbers, it's TD with 18 starts and GS with 5. So more Soph vs Frosh

Tommy is in his 5th year here and Shrader has been here for less than a year. That is a huge difference, not just the career starts each kid has had.

 

[Killdozer]

Can't we bring Shrader in when we reach the redzone? Everyone wins!

Because TD can't get to the red zone all that much and if he did then Shrader would never play this season.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Maybe this has been pointed out, so forgive me if someone had a similar take. 15 pages is a lot to read through.
My take on the QB battle is this: Tommy's arm is what it is. It's obviously better than G.S. Tommy as far as a running threat, is what he is. He's as polished a runner as he is going to be. Although Tommy has speed, he lacks the open field vision, and elusiveness that G.S. brings. G.S. is much more decisive, and quicker in his decision making. So I feel like Tommy has reached his ceiling at this point in his throwing and running. G.S. on the other hand can still grow a lot in the passing game. Consider that he played vs. SEC defenses, as a true freshman, and did manage to have some good passing games, with numbers that paired with our running attack, and defense would be acceptable.
Vs.
Kentucky: 17-22 180 yards. 1 int
#7 Auburn: 12-23 209 yards 2 td
#2 LSU: 17-28 238 yds 1td 2 int
TAMU 13-30 194 3 td 1 int
Ol' Miss 10-14 108
Now keep in mind that he did that vs. SEC defenses as a true freshman. Are these world beater numbers? No. But this tells me, that he is capable vs ACC defenses of having lines like 15-20 200 yds and a TD. He's still learning this system as well. Gives me hope going forward, that Shrader can at least be a threat to throw it, that the defenses will need to respect. And the O-line is going to need to improve in pass protection if we're going to really see what he can do throwing it.

He also ran for 587 yards with 6 TD’s. That’s only like 40 yards behind what our leading rusher had last year.

 

[TheCusian]

I went into this season with an open mind at starting QB. I just want to win

After watching Rutgers and Albany I thought Tommy was going to be the starter just by playing just good enough. I rewatched the Liberty game last night. Shrader did things that TD hasn’t. Shrader was moving and avoiding sacks. You like to point to stats but it’s WHEN Shrader had his runs not just final numbers.

You’d have a hard time convincing anyone on this forum that you’re not completely biased towards Tommy and Dino

I truthfully don’t care if anyone thinks I’m biased or not. I’m being honest about the QB position. I don’t know the kid personally, have nothing outside of the teams success riding on his success.

I’ve maintained since Sat this position: Shrader was good enough to win and he does things that can help a team win. If he doesn’t improve at passing, we’ll need both QBs. They are both flawed.

If you or anyone else wants to check their bias, change out the name and look at the stat line. I *know* there would be people killing TD for 70yds passing. Killing him.

 

[JRHEETER]

I truthfully don’t care if anyone thinks I’m biased or not. I’m being honest about the QB position. I don’t know the kid personally, have nothing outside of the teams success riding on his success.

I’ve maintained since Sat this position: Shrader was good enough to win and he does things that can help a team win. If he doesn’t improve at passing, we’ll need both QBs. They are both flawed.

If you or anyone else wants to check their bias, change out the name and look at the stat line. I *know* there would be people killing TD for 70yds passing. Killing him.

No because most of us don’t just look at the stats like you…

There is more to football than stats.

Stats give a baseline but you have to watch and see what is being done.

A lot of Tommy’s numbers I feel came from when he was down big in games and was playing against prevent defenses/soft zone.

Shrader simply does things that TD can’t do.

call me biased or whatever, but I loved Tommy when he first came here….I even loved him after the 2019 season but was starting to get weary. After 2020 I was done. I figured I would give him 2021, but once again he started doing the same things he had been doing even after everyone said in preseason he was doing much better. Once again it came down to games where he just couldn’t put into play what he was showing before.

 

[TheCusian]

Tommy is in his 5th year here and Shrader has been here for less than a year. That is a huge difference, not just the career starts each kid has had.

I think years matter less than starts - but to your point had Garrett started his career here he’d be much farther along. Time in the system around the HC is very helpful.

Time with this particular OC is much closer.

 

[TheCusian]

No because most of us don’t just look at the stats like you…

There is more to football than stats.

Stats give a baseline but you have to watch and see what is being done.

A lot of Tommy’s numbers I feel came from when he was down big in games and was playing against prevent defenses/soft zone.

Shrader simply does things that TD can’t do.

call me biased or whatever, but I loved Tommy when he first came here….I even loved him after the 2019 season but was starting to get weary. After 2020 I was done. I figured I would give him 2021, but once again he started doing the same things he had been doing even after everyone said in preseason he was doing much better. Once again it came down to games where he just couldn’t put into play what he was showing before.

I’ve watched every game since my freshman year on campus (McNabb was QB). I choose to enhance what I see with more information and feel I’m better for it. This stuff is available to all.

If you think he hasn’t improved this year, you may not be as good a watcher as you claim to be. It may not be enough and for the one billionth time - I am not even saying he should be the starter. I’m just advocating that he be seen fairly. I’ll keep pushing back when I think folks are not seeing the whole picture.

 

[JRHEETER]

I’ve watched every game since my freshman year on campus (McNabb was QB). I choose to enhance what I see with more information and feel I’m better for it. This stuff is available to all.

If you think he hasn’t improved this year, you may not be as good a watcher as you claim to be. It may not be enough and for the one billionth time - I am not even saying he should be the starter. I’m just advocating that he be seen fairly. I’ll keep pushing back when I think folks are not seeing the whole picture.

But you equally don’t see the whole picture on GS and I think that’s why people get frustrated with you…..

Which if you’re not giving GS the whole picture than your view on TD is slanted and biased.

Which is human nature to be biased so it’s okay but at least own it….

I mean, I’m def partial to GS at this point and I’m going to see him in a better light because TD has lost my trust and confidence in him.

TD needs a change of culture and team and coach if I’m being 100% honest

 

[TheCusian]

But you equally don’t see the whole picture on GS and I think that’s why people get frustrated with you…..

Which if you’re not giving GS the whole picture than your view on TD is slanted and biased.

Which is human nature to be biased so it’s okay but at least own it….

I mean, I’m def partial to GS at this point and I’m going to see him in a better light because TD has lost my trust and confidence in him.

TD needs a change of culture and team and coach if I’m being 100% honest

How am I biased against GS? What have I said that is untrue about him?

 

[IthacaMatt]

The beard only started 4 games at MSU…I’m not so sure how many Tommy has actually started in his career.

19 by my count, ND his freshman year, then 12 games (5-7), the 1-3 last year before he got injured. Then 2 this year, right? Or did he start against Albany?

 

[JRHEETER]

19 by my count, ND his freshman year, then 12 games (5-7), the 1-3 last year before he got injured. Then 2 this year, right? Or did he start against Albany?

he started against Albany and was the captain too

 

[BrooklynCuse]

I truthfully don’t care if anyone thinks I’m biased or not. I’m being honest about the QB position. I don’t know the kid personally, have nothing outside of the teams success riding on his success.

I’ve maintained since Sat this position: Shrader was good enough to win and he does things that can help a team win. If he doesn’t improve at passing, we’ll need both QBs. They are both flawed.

If you or anyone else wants to check their bias, change out the name and look at the stat line. I *know* there would be people killing TD for 70yds passing. Killing him.

You said fans eyeballs are biased. I don’t think that is always the case. That’s why it’s good to watch the game twice to take the in-the-moment emotion out of it.

You said you think Tucker won ACC RB of the week after watching both games but then let data change your mind. Sometimes you just have to believe your eyes

 

[TheCusian]

You said fans eyeballs are biased. I don’t think that is always the case. That’s why it’s good to watch the game twice to take the in-the-moment emotion out of it.

You said you think Tucker won ACC RB of the week after watching both games but then let data change your mind. Sometimes you just have to believe your eyes

Eh, I hear you, I do. I think it’s both eye test and stats. fans eyes have hearts attached - hard to see clearly IMO

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[SUskibum]

19 by my count, ND his freshman year, then 12 games (5-7), the 1-3 last year before he got injured. Then 2 this year, right? Or did he start against Albany?

He didn’t start vs ND. He came in after the 3rd or 4th drive when Dungey went down with a back issue.

 

[RMH44]

He didn’t start vs ND. He came in after the 3rd or 4th drive when Dungey went down with a back issue.

I think he came is sooner than that...maybe even on the initial drive.

 

[SUskibum]

I think he came is sooner than that...maybe even on the initial drive.

It was the third drive. Drive 1 was a punt. Drive 2 was a pick thrown by Dungey. Drive 3 Dungey got hurt on the 5th play.

You know they record this stuff right?

 

[CuseCrew08]

After watching HCDB's press conference this week it didn't seem to me that he was very enamored with GS's throwing of the ball last week. He did mention it was a "below average day" for GS throwing, (good question by Bailey).

Also mentioned the WR's are doing things correctly and we need to hit them with the football when they get open.

Hopefully it improves.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He didn’t start vs ND. He came in after the 3rd or 4th drive when Dungey went down with a back issue.

No matter. He still has a losing record as a starter.

 

[RMH44]

It was the third drive. Drive 1 was a punt. Drive 2 was a pick thrown by Dungey. Drive 3 Dungey got hurt on the 5th play.

You know they record this stuff right?

Of course I do...but too lazy to look it up.

 

[GoSU96]

No matter. He still has a losing record as a starter.

You know who else had a losing record each of his first three years as a starter, Eric Dungey.

 

[RandomGuy]

You know who else had a losing record each of his first three years as a starter, Eric Dungey.

Shrader has a losing record as a starter, as well. 2-4? To be fair? Neither is Eric Dungey.

 

[RMH44]

You know who else had a losing record each of his first three years as a starter, Eric Dungey.

Apples and oranges. For the most part, ED was one of the few bright spots during those seasons and nobody was suggesting that we needed a new look at QB. The same can not be said for the last two seasons. For whatever reason, TD simply doesn't possess the necessary intangibles to inspire confidence.

 

[Apdaly]

Monday Press Conferences- September 27

Mike Norvell

seminoles.com

FSU O-coordinator has some good comments here that remind me a lot of Cuse and the current debate between Shrader and devito. Explosive vs consistent, and the struggles of going fast. Given their oline struggles explains a lot of the offensive issues we have had here in cny. Not that it’s rocket science but I like hearing people explain the same things differently for another perspective.
I think the offense can be more explosive with devito but more consistent with Shrader, and unfortunately if you’re explosive but not often enough you have issues.