So Many True Freshmen

[tep624]

Only 8 kids on this year's team are RF's:

Rodney Williams
Juwan Dowels
Cordell Hudson
Kayton Samuels
Aaron Roberts
Denzel Ward
Adly Enoicy
Chris Slayton

Plus the 13 scholarship true frosh who played:

Eric Dungey
Kenterius Womack
Dontae Strickland
Daivon Ellison
Jordan Fredericks
Kielan Whitner
Tyrone Perkins
Matt Keller
Cody Conway
Steven Clark
Anthony Giudice
Qaadir Sheppard
Amir Ealey

Leaves us 21 kids to be replaced after the 2018 season.

And Rodney probably would have played if he hadn't been hurt last year.

 

[Scooch]

I'd prefer a debate about burning redshirts than a debate about players being run out of the program.

 

[baggerbob]

And Rodney probably would have played if he hadn't been hurt last year.

Enoicy would have played last year as well, except for the injury, according to Scott he was ahead of Custis in preseason camp.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Yeah, but...

There's a reason that those teams don't redshirt--because many of their prospects are early entry risks. So if they redshirt them, and then lose them in 2-3 years, they've squandered a year of "value" they can get from the player. And of course, they are also getting the best of the top prospects, who are generally better, more physically ready to contribute, etc.

I'm not buying the argument that we should emulate what those programs do, because we don't recruit at the same level. They're not worrying about redshirting because the next guy they recruit will undoubtedly be equally as good.

The highlighted part is why I think our recruiting is up. These freshman can play year one, we're no longer stashing guys and hoping to get 2 good years out of them when they are older/bigger.

It certainly is a risk, but it's a calculated risk, to play all these true frosh. In football I'd rather err on the side of being overly aggressive as it pertains to rosters, and play calling.

 

[kcsu]

I realize several of the true freshmen that played were necessary because they beat out all others to earn a spot on the two-deep. However, to ruin any hope of a redshirt to enable a kid to play meaningless snaps with third and fourth team players in the final quarter of a blowout seems to be a VERY shortsighted decision.

Why play Tyrone Perkins, Kenterious Womack or Cody Conway in this game. One would assume all three would be best suited being redshirted.

At tackle, McGloster needs the work. If Conway has indeed passed him, it is even more important to allow Conway to redshirt. Only if a 4th tackle is needed because of injury or suspension should Conway have played. He sure. As heck wasn't needed versus Rhode Island. And hopefully he's not needed the rest of the year.

Perkins and Womack make no sense to me. None. My hope is that since the redshirt is no longer needed, they each get more opportunities throughout the season. However me I highly doubt it.

Defensively playing Amir Ealy, Anthony Giudice, Kielan Whitner and Daivon Ellison left me scratching my head. The defensive coaches needed to burn Clark and Sheppard's redshirt. But why play Ealy and Giudice? Same in the defensive backfield. Unless these guys are absolutely necessary for special teams (if they are, we've missed out on too many recruiting classes), does anyone really think any of these four will see meaningful minutes the rest of the season? I guess a better way to say it would be, if the injury bug doesn't totally destroy us, why would these guys see the field?

In my opinion SU football would've been better off seeing these guys on the field as fifth year seniors then they will this year in mop up duty.

Thought?

Peace

I just got done watching the replay and i have to say these kids all looked like players. I believe that with gregory leading the charge specials have taken on a new priority. I love that we are using our weapons and young talent as i feel that specials can make a huge difference. Just look at the blocking on the PR it was really solid. Also coverage outside of the first kick off was tight. We are building depth playing for today and putting talent on the field. Im all in and dont think that it hurts us one bit as we are going to continue to see better and better recruiting classes that will keep pushing those ahead of us. The fact is that these kids are in many cases more talented than those ahead of them. Jordon is our best back by far and the other two kids are studs as well. The TD run by strickland was unreal. Great cuts looked like he was gliding as he pulled away. Add in the Dline guys the DB kids and wow the future is bright. I say keep it coming!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is one of those things when the times we play true freshmen we'll talk about how they're the better players anyway and ready and elite teams play freshmen so we should too and it shows the coaches are all in.

The next year that we redshirt nearly the entire class we'll spend all our time talking about how smart it is to preserve a 5th year and give guys time to learn the schemes and playbook before game action and oh by the way the extra year in S&C should pay dividends.

We're geniuses either way! Thus in fact confirming our genius!

Anyway, I get where Buddha is coming from. Playing some of these guys made a lot of sense because it's clear they're going to see the field all year. The rest might be on the fringe. Later in their careers maybe they aren't fringe players. Those years could benefit the program more than snaps vs Rhode Island, IF those are the most meaningful snaps those players get this season.

If we're not preserving redshirts, that's fine, but that player needs to impact games directly.

 

[djorange1989]

I hope they are not playing for 1919. Or we will be playing THESE guys.
View attachment 50581

Wait wasn't that one of GROB's teams?

 

[cuse309]

Games against 1AA opponents do not count towards redshirting.

 

[cuse309]

My previous post is hopefully factual.

 

[GoSU96]

Those that played in mop up the other night, I hope that doesn't end up being all they did. Or I hope they make some impact in practice that helps the team. If they are on the . . . . . team, then I think it's a waste. Can't use the "coaches aren't playing for 2019" argument for kids who aren't going to impact 2015 anyway.

Those kids will be on special teams. Those aren't meaningless snaps

 

[Chip]

Those kids will be on special teams. Those aren't meaningless snaps

I don't know how we ended up redshirting so many talented players in the P era. Because special teams existed back then as I recall (fondly). But I'm glad we did.

 

[orange79]

I could care less if the kids redshirt or not anymore but where this will come back to bite us is when they're all seniors. We might lose more kids that year than we can replace.

At this point, as a fan, I can't be worried about 3 or 4 years from now. If they can help the team, they should play.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't know how we ended up redshirting so many talented players in the P era. Because special teams existed back then as I recall (fondly). But I'm glad we did.

Different facts and circumstances.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

At this point, as a fan, I can't be worried about 3 or 4 years from now. If they can help the team, they should play.

Agreed, who cares if the kid is here in 4 years, if he makes a few plays on specials etc they may help win a game. Sure we can look back in 3 years and say I wish we had more year, etc etc but 3 of the 4 kids it really won't matter all that much, in addition 1 or 2 of those 4 or 5 will get hurt and have to red shirt anyway.

Wish all of them the best, hope they graduate and move on, but F this red shirt nonsense, play them all if they are ready and I don't care if they play 9-10 plays all year. They are here to play not sit. Like I said, most of the kids won't be game changers anyway. If they can help NOW play them. Most O line is going to sit we all know that, skills different story. What if we red shirted our defensive captain last year?

 

[PhatOrange]

Just curious, can any of these kids still be redshirted? Isn’t there something about 20% of the games? Or does that only have to do with a kid getting injured and being able to redshirt if he’s only played in X% of games ?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Just curious, can any of these kids still be redshirted? Isn’t there something about 20% of the games? Or does that only have to do with a kid getting injured and being able to redshirt if he’s only played in X% of games ?

If a kid gets injured and plays 30% or less of the games, he can apply for a medical hardship waiver (assuming he has a redshirt year still available).

Barring injury, the redshirt horse is out of the barn once they see the field for one snap..

 

[Chip]

At this point, as a fan, I can't be worried about 3 or 4 years from now. If they can help the team, they should play.

I don't really agree, and I know I'm in the minority, but F it. I hate the idea of desperation. I don't think it's a great idea to let a desperate must win now coach continue too long. Just keeps setting you back. We can't worry about 2019. Why not? Are we all going to die? Is college football going to end? (don't answer that).

We've had so many great players over the years, who turned us into Top 25 teams that could compete with anyone during their 5th year. Guys who were probably good enough to play right away (McNabb, Harrison, etc.).

But now because our coach went 3-9, we have to play every true freshman so he can save his job and show the future. And I know where this comment will take the thread quickly, but it doesn't say much about what the coach was left with that special teams have to be filled out with true freshmen. Maybe you get a good return guy out of it, but these are going to be the guys responsible for blocking and defending kick returns and punt returns?? We better at least get a KO return reverse from Womack out of it.

Yeah, I get that Georgia played 19 true freshmen on Saturday. Get me to the point of Georgia's annual recruiting, and I'll celebrate it.

And before this post gets needlessly exaggerated, yes, it's clear we have some true freshmen upgrades that need to play right away and are playing. I just don't think there are 17 of them.

 

[orange79]

I don't really agree, and I know I'm in the minority, but F it. I hate the idea of desperation. I don't think it's a great idea to let a desperate must win now coach continue too long. Just keeps setting you back. We can't worry about 2019. Why not? Are we all going to die? Is college football going to end? (don't answer that).

We've had so many great players over the years, who turned us into Top 25 teams that could compete with anyone during their 5th year. Guys who were probably good enough to play right away (McNabb, Harrison, etc.).

But now because our coach went 3-9, we have to play every true freshman so he can save his job and show the future. And I know where this comment will take the thread quickly, but it doesn't say much about what the coach was left with that special teams have to be filled out with true freshmen. Maybe you get a good return guy out of it, but these are going to be the guys responsible for blocking and defending kick returns and punt returns?? We better at least get a KO return reverse from Womack out of it.

Yeah, I get that Georgia played 19 true freshmen on Saturday. Get me to the point of Georgia's annual recruiting, and I'll celebrate it.

And before this post gets needlessly exaggerated, yes, it's clear we have some true freshmen upgrades that need to play right away and are playing. I just don't think there are 17 of them.

Yeah, I guess I see it as, if recruiting has really improved, play the upgrades if they can help you win. And whereas I tend to agree that you can't let a desperate coach hurt the program in the long run, if a kid can help you now, who's to say the staff wouldn't play him even if they had a guarantee they would not be fired?

 

[Faegan]

If a kid gets injured and plays 30% or less of the games, he can apply for a medical hardship waiver (assuming he has a redshirt year still available).

Barring injury, the redshirt horse is out of the barn once they see the field for one snap..

Maybe there will be an unbelievable rash of "injuries" among the true freshman in the last two minutes of the CMU game.

 

[Faegan]

You know...

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Maybe there will be an unbelievable rash of "injuries" among the true freshman in the last two minutes of the CMU game.

There's always practice.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Overall I'm fine with most of the freshmen who played, playing. They should see time throughout the year. There were maybe 3 or 4 that I was surprised to see on the field that I hope will make an impact as the year goes on. There always seem to be a couple of players that with hindsight you wished you hadn't used. As long as that number is small, I'm good.

 

[Chip]

Yeah, I guess I see it as, if recruiting has really improved, play the upgrades if they can help you win. And whereas I tend to agree that you can't let a desperate coach hurt the program in the long run, if a kid can help you now, who's to say the staff wouldn't play him even if they had a guarantee they would not be fired?

I don't disagree. And even when times were better, we had some play right away that the staff felt could help (both McIntosh bros, Spotwood, Konrad, Freeney, Rhodes just to name a few. Not going to mention Morant, he was a special case). Just seems odd to me that 17 played in the first game. I wouldn't think you could know that much already.

Oh well, here's to a great 2018! Hope we're all still alive to see it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't really agree, and I know I'm in the minority, but F it. I hate the idea of desperation. I don't think it's a great idea to let a desperate must win now coach continue too long. Just keeps setting you back. We can't worry about 2019. Why not? Are we all going to die? Is college football going to end? (don't answer that).

We've had so many great players over the years, who turned us into Top 25 teams that could compete with anyone during their 5th year. Guys who were probably good enough to play right away (McNabb, Harrison, etc.).

But now because our coach went 3-9, we have to play every true freshman so he can save his job and show the future. And I know where this comment will take the thread quickly, but it doesn't say much about what the coach was left with that special teams have to be filled out with true freshmen. Maybe you get a good return guy out of it, but these are going to be the guys responsible for blocking and defending kick returns and punt returns?? We better at least get a KO return reverse from Womack out of it.

Yeah, I get that Georgia played 19 true freshmen on Saturday. Get me to the point of Georgia's annual recruiting, and I'll celebrate it.

And before this post gets needlessly exaggerated, yes, it's clear we have some true freshmen upgrades that need to play right away and are playing. I just don't think there are 17 of them.

I wish if we're going to burn all these redshirts that we would at least act with more desperation on 4th down. :noidea:

 

[jekelish]

You know...

"I shoulda stayed home and played with myself!"