So our offense...what changed?

[Orangezoo]

I know the topic is the offense, but, the offensive rebounding by Rutgers and BC is a concern even when Sid returns. The second and 3rd chances are gonna catch up against quality teams ( UNC always comes to mid)

I know JB has said he can live with it by focusing on steals and creating turnovers, but its just demoralizing watching teams get fresh shot clock

The guards did a nice job coming back to rebound vs BC. We are always going to give up some offensive boards because of the zone. Against Rutgers the guards didn't rebound that well and then missing Sid played a very big role. We were plus 11 vs BC overall and -1 on the offensive boards.

 

[billsin01]

Our personnel then was better suited to isolation ball, which people hate and has gained a bad reputation.

That kind of offense can't win at the highest level of basketball anymore, meaning it wont get you an NBA championship, but its still a legit offense that has a place in the NBA and can win games in college.

This has nothing to do with anything, but I see a lot of people talk about how terrible iso ball and then turn around and say Jordan was the best basketball player ever, which is weird because iso ball was his bread and butter.

I've never loved iso ball. Hated late 90s nba, feed the low post, stand around and watch stuff. Havin said that, I agree, it has it's place. We weren't complaining about it when Johnny Flynn was breaking everyone down, so it'd be wrong to s--t on it entirely. That said, I'm not sure the Howard/Battle/Brissett/Dolezaj/Chuckwu group was ideally suited for iso any more than offensive sets encouraging motion. I think the answer is that they were simply not great offensively. Pretty tough on the defensive end but just not great offensively.

Right, but I’m not talking about one game. I’m talking about every game. Even in the Rutgers game where we struggled against a really good defensive team, took some bad shots, were missing our best shooter...we still scored 69 and got a number of layups off ball movement and great passes, cuts, etc.

2 years ago we wouldn’t have cracked 50 points in a game like that, and would’ve gotten nothing but heavily contested jumpers.

The bolded part is the most intriguing aspect of that RU game. That was a pretty solid defensive team, we were short-handed, played OK but not incredibly and still put up 69 and were in the game. Of all the stuff that has happened so far, that is the most positive thing we've seen, IMO. If sidibe helps even out those rebounding numbers and Buddy helps out offensively a bit, we have a chance to be a very solid team -- top 5 acc, potentially. That would be a welcome sight.

 

[Orangezoo]

It's funny when we talk about the relationship of isolation basketball and the ability to beat your man to get a bucket. I think those two are too often seen as the same thing.

One of the things that is different is we have a lot of guys who can get a bucket on this team and in different ways. Q, Marek, Griff, Buddy, Kadary, Woody and even Joe have shown the ability to beat their man to a spot to get an open look either on the ball or off it. Kadary is the only guard with skillet to straight up use the bounce alone but the rest of these guys can use strength, skill or speed to beat their man and make a play. There are no clones on this team either when it comes to the pieces.

What we have seen is guys making the game easier for each other doing what they do best. Griffin seemed to even finally realize there are going to be a ton of good looks for him if he works hard to find his spots. Add all that up on top of a very unselfish group and it gets you to what is so different already.

 

[CousCuse]

The isolation offense was a strategy implemented by the coaching staff to get the program through the limitations brought about by the sanction regime. That's over in totality now.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Anyone concerned that Sid helps defensively but hurts our spacing and ball movement?

 

[upperdeck]

if we could get guys to box out instead of standing and watching the ball we could cut out 4-6 OR a game. But we did a better job of the top guys coming down and getting the rebounds. value the ball, let the running game come to you.

 

[djcon57]

The isolation offense was a strategy implemented by the coaching staff to get the program through the limitations brought about by the sanction regime. That's over in totality now.

explain 2014-15 then

 

[Wrinkle]

What people are terming the isolation offense was because we only had no guards who could put the ball on the floor and penetrate. We didn't want to isolate, there just were no open looks because the guards were helpless at turning the corner. Frank Howard was particularly dreadful in this regard.
With the JG3 and buddy backcourt I think we're going to continue to encounter these problems against good defenses. BC was absolutely awful defensively. Quincy and Griffin help a lot because both have at least a semblance of a dribble game, but Kadary is still our only guard who we can put in pick and roll and expect him to produce. He has to play a lot. If he does I think we can be very good offensively.

 

[malpearl31]

I know the topic is the offense, but, the offensive rebounding by Rutgers and BC is a concern even when Sid returns. The second and 3rd chances are gonna catch up against quality teams ( UNC always comes to mid)

I know JB has said he can live with it by focusing on steals and creating turnovers, but its just demoralizing watching teams get fresh shot clock

It's obviously early in the season... and as our competition gets better, I expect that our rebounding numbers will worsen somewhat... but interestingly, after 5 games our defensive rebounding is on pace to be the best it has ever been in the KenPom era.

Through 5 games, we are only allowing our opponents to rebound 25.2% of their own missed shots. That ranks 93rd in D-1 to date. The best SU has ever done over a full season (going back to 1997) is to limit our opponents to 30.4% in this metric (2008 and 2018 seasons). And our worst seasons were in 2001 (we allowed opponents that year to rebound 39% of their own misses) and in 2012 (we allowed opponents to rebound 38.3% of their misses, culminating in the Elite 8 loss to Ohio State after Fab was suspended).

So far this year we're forcing more turnovers and allowing a lower eFG% on defense (in addition to rebounding the ball better) - it definitely looks like our defense has improved over last year.

 

[CousCuse]

explain 2014-15 then

I believe they had already changed the recruiting strategy by that point, not knowing exactly when the sanction penalties would begin.

 

[skurey]

Made shots against a bad defense

 

[blust2i3d4]

Our players are not enthusiastic because it is a last minute added game and feel like extra work.

 

[orangecuse]

Made shots against a bad defense

Nah, today JB was just back to his same ‘ol self again forgetting how to run things, etc.