Some People Aren't Going to Like Hearing This...

[007]

To be fair, we won 7 games last year with virtually the same team against a very similar schedule. Your point?

Why wouldn't the minimal expectation be improvement over last season with an OC that's no longer a rookie, a HC that's no longer a rookie, and a team that was returning the most starters in the conference? And a team that added on some freshman ready to contribute?

The SOS is tougher this year, we lost the only NFL talent we had on the DL we had, and we lost a 4 year starter at LB. There were still no playmakers coming back on O, and less on D. We do appear to have some talent in the freshman class, but to think that freshmen were going to make a big impact was unrealistic.

Getting to 6 wins and a bowl was always going to be more difficult this year, even with the things you mentioned. And, the talk of we should expect 8-9 win season because hell, we won 7 last year, was nonsense.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And yet we won. We also lost to Pitt because of a missed XP. We all choose to be optimists or pessimists.

That wasn't about being a pessimist or optimist.

 

[Todd Gack]

That wasn't about being a pessimist or optimist.

You proposed that 7-6 was deceiving, specifically mentioning games we barely won. What was your point then?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You proposed that 7-6 was deceiving, specifically mentioning games we barely won. What was your point then?

That many of us took the record as indicative of an upward trendline, when it is possible that going simply by game results may have hid some real roster and coaching issues.

I know your game though, Gack. Not interested in getting into it with you. If you don't think I'm making a valid point here, that's fine.

 

[longislandcuse]

BC was able to beat USC with 2 star vs 4 star talent. There's no reason why we should be completely unable to compete with anyone remotely above average. Blowouts will happen but we've had 5 massacres under Shafers watch already. Baby steps would actually being competitive for a half.

 

[orangepassion]

I'd love to compete like NC State did today against FSU. Think we have enough talent to compete and be in the game in the 4th quarter against some of the good teams.

 

[RF2044]

BC was able to beat USC with 2 star vs 4 star talent. There's no reason why we should be completely unable to compete with anyone remotely above average. Blowouts will happen but we've had 5 massacres under Shafers watch already. Baby steps would actually being competitive for a half.

Sure, there's a reason. We have a dearth of offensive playmaking skilled talent.

I don't know if ND is legit top 10, but if not they're close. They were better on both lines, they had better team speed, and they were able to exploit mismatches [like David Robinson's kid--#88, their big tight end] all game long. Name one player on offense we have that is a difference maker, or who creates matchup difficulties. You can't, because there isn't one.

Anyone pretending that we are on even footing because we won 7 games last season has their head in the sand. Baby steps are making incremental progress toward getting back to the top 25, then beating top 10 teams. We're closer than we were, but still have a ways to go--especially in terms of offensive difference makers.

 

[longislandcuse]

Sure, there's a reason. We have a dearth of offensive playmaking skilled talent.

I don't know if ND is legit top 10, but if not they're close. They were better on both lines, they had better team speed, and they were able to exploit mismatches [like David Robinson's kid--#88, their big tight end] all game long. Name one player on offense we have that is a difference maker, or who creates matchup difficulties. You can't, because there isn't one.

Anyone pretending that we are on even footing because we won 7 games last season has their head in the sand. Baby steps are making incremental progress toward getting back to the top 25, then beating top 10 teams. We're closer than we were, but still have a ways to go--especially in terms of offensive difference makers.

I get what you're saying but it's tough to swallow when I see other teams, probably less talented than us, not get beat down like a pee wee squad whenever they play above average teams. (See Purdue vs ND for a quick example). Right now I just assume games over at half against anyone more talented. Were the anti-upset pick. Were guaranteed to not upset anyone or basically even come close for whatever reason, yet we can dominate teams on our talent level. It's bizarre.

 

[RF2044]

I get what you're saying but it's tough to swallow when I see other teams, probably less talented than us, not get beat down like a pee wee squad whenever they play above average teams. (See Purdue vs ND for a quick example). Right now I just assume games over at half against anyone more talented. Were the anti-upset pick. Were guaranteed to not upset anyone or basically even come close for whatever reason, yet we can dominate teams on our talent level. It's bizarre.

LIC, go back and reread cuseisloose's OP in this thread. It will help put in perspective how far we've come from the GRob debacle, but also highlight our personnel limitations, and what we need to do to take the next step.

Last year's class brought us Philips, Custis, Ishmael, Williams, and Cooper. Williams and Cooper washed out, and never played a down. Ishamel and Custis have played, but aren't quite ready yet [although maybe being force fed an infusion of minutes will help accelerate their developmental curves]. Philips has proven to be a potential difference maker, with lots of elusiveness. Last year's class was a HUGE step in the right direction; we need three more classes like that for the talent differential to disappear. I think we just need to give the staff a little more time to infuse the roster with better athletes on both sides of the ball.

I know this rings hollow given tonight's loss, but we're not that far off. We need to continue to upgrade the talent.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

To be fair, there were a lot good posters talking about a 8 win season as being a MINIMAL expectation for the season.

When the HC who should know his team and players better than anyone,comes out and says the goal for THIS YEAR is 10 wins.I don't think it's crazy for fans to expect 8.

 

[jgeorge322]

What's tough is, if Gulley's not fast enough...

This is the only comment i disagree w. Gulley is fast enough. But hes nothing special.

 

[Crusty]

One positive note - we didn't get blown out like GT, Clemson and FSU last year. That ain't nothing.

 

[BuffOrange]

Not being good isn't news. Villanova ffs. Even on that 1st play there was zero separation.

It's hard not to focus on the refs because that was the only interesting part of the game IMO. Made Cameron Indoor look like a fair fight.

 

[OrangePA]

We are not fast enough.

True that.

 

[statsgrad]

The overall talent level is on an upwards trend. The defense is making plays despite their deficienies. The offense, while not scoring, seems to be connecting on more big plays despite the lack of playmakers. And it seems to me as though the staff on both sides of the ball is doing a better job than they were at this point last season. This is all I really need to see, both coaching and talent wise we aren't ready to have our "Nebraska Game" just yet -- but if you smooth out the ups and downs and look at the general direction of the program -- the trend is definitely upwards.

I thought that the defense played very well today given the ineptness of our offense early on -- leaving the defense constantly on the field. Eventually ND was going to get plays out of their playmakers. Take away the one busted coverage by our safety going underneath and our defense, while giving up a lot of yards/completions, was fantastic.

The fake punt was brilliant. Everyone knew it was coming on 4th and 2 -- but then after the penalty I turned to my girlfriend and said "well they can't fake it anymore." I'm sure ND thought the same and that's exactly why it worked. The play by Eskridge was 100% set up by Shafer/Bullough, great anticipation of Kelly's adjustments. On offense we finally threw some deep balls and even a fake bubble where West ended up with no defender within 10 yards. These are guys in their 2nd year on the job and they have been badly outcoached in the past at times but just like at the very end of last season we are startng to see flashes that the lightbulb is going on for them.

Anyone who feels pessimstic after this game, please give it time. We were a couple of plays/calls away from beating the 8th ranked team in the country on a neutral field. How you can come away angry about that I will never understand.

 

[tipphill]

I watched the game with a very, very, very knowledgable NFL front office person tonight. Despite all of our laments about referees, missed fields goals, GMac, and Hunt, we as fans over looked one other aspect of this game -- talent. He has personally evaluated a lot of players on this year's team.

We as fans tend to overestimate our talent or somehow believe that a perfectly coached game can lead us to a win. Sometimes the other team is just better. And ND was just better. We are also a damn slow football team.

He actually put some plays on rewind and slowed them down. Our WR's really struggle getting consistent separation. West has nice hands but he made the comment that he is painfully slow and should have had multiple steps on the guy given his release. He likes Gulley but he just isn't fast enough. In his words, "how can you not beat a DE around the edge at this level" on that swing pass.

Our interior OL got blown up by ND's 94 on multiple occasions. He single handedly hurt our run game. Kelly made a poor play on Hunter Jr's TD catch. He hesitated on that route -- he could have blown him up or made a play on the ball. Instead he thought about it and did neither. Also said both our corners are a bit stiff and need to get better.

There were some silver linings I guess. He loved how hard we played for Shafer and co tonight. We played through every whistle and fought hard. He actually likes Hunt as a college QB. He made some decent throws and probably paid in a boatload of pain. In his words, "he's noa top 10 QB, but you could do a hell of a lot worse." He said we'd think differently about him if we had a WR that scared anyone else.

We just have to get better folks. We can nitpick calls all day long, but at the end of the day we do not have the horses to play with top 20 teams yet. Our DL still fails to get push without sending the house, and our skill guys aren't quite skilled enough.

I loved the way these kids competed today. I hope estime and Moore are ok and we get better from here.

did he comment on the coaching at all???? i have no confidence in mcd at all.

 

[RICuse44]

#41 for nd was a backup safety playing because of injuries. Put him on our team and he might be our best defender. I think that tells you everything you need to know about the talent difference.

 

[SmilinBob]

The talent and coaching has to continue to get better for this team to move up another level. I agree with the OP post 100%. I also believe that it can be done.

 

[CIL]

This is the only comment i disagree w. Gulley is fast enough. But hes nothing special.

Gulley couldn't outrun a Notre Dame DL around the edge.

 

[SmilinBob]

Gulley couldn't outrun a Notre Dame DL around the edge.

Good up the field speed very poor corner speed that Gulley has.

 

[CIL]

did he comment on the coaching at all???? i have no confidence in mcd at all.

He did. He liked Bullough's scheme and though we did a pretty good job there. It's not Bullough's fault Whigham couldn't keep up with ND. He said offensively it was really tough to tell because their front did a really good job disrupting our run game. Clearly ND did not respect our WR's as they played a ton of man press with a single high a ton. Hunt's deep throws were really, really, good. Except for the overthrow to Estime, our guys clearly had difficulty separating from their defenders. The pick he threw was kind of a bad throw, but he did point out that the safety held Estime coming out of his break and it wasn't called.

His specific comment to me was "it's really tough to tell when your guys can't beat the other guys. Sometimes it's as simple as there Joes are just better than your Joes." It's a pretty simple way to say that coaching can only do so much. We'd all like to think that if a the right staff came along we'd be top 25 overnight. We just don't have those guys yet.

In the last 10 years of our program, we have had 1 QB, 1 RB, and 2 WR's drafted. None higher than the 4th round. LSU had 1 QB, 2 RB's, and 3WR's DRAFTED LAST YEAR! That needs to change if we want to make the next leap.

 

[CousCuse]

Gulley couldn't outrun a Notre Dame DL around the edge.

He hesitated and the DE ran hard to the sideline , it was a good play by him , that's all.

 

[CIL]

He hesitated and the DE ran hard to the sideline , it was a good play by him , that's all.

Kind of my point. Do you think Welsh, Thompson, or Robinson would have made that play on the other end?

 

[SmilinBob]

ND surprised me on how well they shut down the run but it makes sense if they just went man press which any team with any common sense would do vs SU. The o-line did a nice job of protecting Hunt and if the receivers could get any type of separation this would have opened up the world offensively.

 

[RCDICK44]

The talent and coaching has to continue to get better for this team to move up another level. I agree with the OP post 100%. I also believe that it can be done.

I just went back to check the classes for Notre Dame recruiting to 2010 and they have had a total of 9 five stars and 52 four stars since 2010.Nuff Said!!I really don't watch the star system but at least 90 % of these guy's had to be creditable.