The All Inclusive, Dohn, Rutgers and Crystal Balls thread

[CbusCuse]

Don't need to even watch to know that. Flip side though, if Brian keeps nuking our commit rankings maybe other schools will leave them alone.

State Penn, Ohio State... Pen, etc don't want 82 rated recruits

Yeah but on on the flip side to that, I’d think those staffs would have so many resources to watch film of potential recruits and pass on to higher position coaches if they think it’s possible option. They don’t really care about the current ranking as they know it will go up if they commit to Their school.

 

[Libero2]

Yeah but on on the flip side to that, I’d think those staffs would have so many resources to watch film of potential recruits and pass on to higher position coaches if they think it’s possible option. They don’t really care about the current ranking as they know it will go up if they commit to Their school.

It really does feel this is how the recruiting game works. Kid commits to Kansas 2-3 star. Same kid flips his commit to Alabama - 5 star. Simple as that for some ratings/evals sites.

Which is a huge part of the “stars aren’t everything” recruiting philosophy. Most ratings aren’t true honest evals of kids. They all have a reason for rating a kid what they rate them, and it’s not usually just “film evaluation + measureables”

 

[money3189]

Yeah but on on the flip side to that, I’d think those staffs would have so many resources to watch film of potential recruits and pass on to higher position coaches if they think it’s possible option. They don’t really care about the current ranking as they know it will go up if they commit to Their school.

Exactly

 

[money3189]

It really does feel this is how the recruiting game works. Kid commits to Kansas 2-3 star. Same kid flips his commit to Alabama - 5 star. Simple as that for some ratings/evals sites.

Which is a huge part of the “stars aren’t everything” recruiting philosophy. Most ratings aren’t true honest evals of kids. They all have a reason for rating a kid what they rate them, and it’s not usually just “film evaluation + measureables”

Yup. Also, ratings are influenced by the amount of subcribers you have at these recruiting sites. They want to keep the paying fans happy so they will rate their commits in a favorable way. Lots of SU fans left 24 seven years ago and there is like zero subscribers on rivals. The analysts at those sites don't care about Syracuse commits because there's no benefit for them to do so. Those SU sites has no traffic and makes no money for them.

 

[Libero2]

Yup. Also, ratings are influenced by the amount of subcribers you have at these recruiting sites. They want to keep the paying fans happy so they will rate their commits in a favorable way. Lots of SU fans left 24 seven years ago and there is like zero subscribers on rivals. The analysts at those sites don't care about Syracuse commits because there's no benefit for them to do so. Those SU sites has no traffic and makes no money for them.

Which is why I’d imagine only one way our recruiting rankings improve.

That’s to win games and be a top 25 team “consistently.” That will “force” them to rate the kids we bring in higher.

As you said, we aren’t making them money because our fan base isn’t paying for their recruiting services/ratings/tidbits/etc. and as long as they don’t give “our guys” positive evals, our fan base won’t flock to them in droves, which would then encourage them to improve our ratings and start that positive feedback loop.

If all kids were rated based on what they actually bring to the table and no outside factors, stars would matter a whole lot more to me. Heck they make a big deal every year in the super bowl of how many 2-3 star college prospects there are in the game. I’d wager a bunch of those guys weren’t “underrated” coming out of high school and suddenly became ten times better. I’d wager most of those kids were never given an honest and accurate evaluation in the first place by the services that “gave” them their stars.

There’s a reason teams don’t just go get the guy recruiting services have the most highly rated and they do their own evaluations on every single player they consider giving a scholarship to.

 

[money3189]

Which is why I’d imagine only one way our recruiting rankings improve.

That’s to win games and be a top 25 team “consistently.” That will “force” them to rate the kids we bring in higher.

As you said, we aren’t making them money because our fan base isn’t paying for their recruiting services/ratings/tidbits/etc. and as long as they don’t give “our guys” positive evals, our fan base won’t flock to them in droves, which would then encourage them to improve our ratings and start that positive feedback loop.

If all kids were rated based on what they actually bring to the table and no outside factors, stars would matter a whole lot more to me. Heck they make a big deal every year in the super bowl of how many 2-3 star college prospects there are in the game. I’d wager a bunch of those guys weren’t “underrated” coming out of high school and suddenly became ten times better. I’d wager most of those kids were never given an honest and accurate evaluation in the first place by the services that “gave” them their stars.

There’s a reason teams don’t just go get the guy recruiting services have the most highly rated and they do their own evaluations on every single player they consider giving a scholarship to.

You can't say it any better than that. Good stuff.

 

[tep624]

Which is why I’d imagine only one way our recruiting rankings improve.

That’s to win games and be a top 25 team “consistently.” That will “force” them to rate the kids we bring in higher.

As you said, we aren’t making them money because our fan base isn’t paying for their recruiting services/ratings/tidbits/etc. and as long as they don’t give “our guys” positive evals, our fan base won’t flock to them in droves, which would then encourage them to improve our ratings and start that positive feedback loop.

If all kids were rated based on what they actually bring to the table and no outside factors, stars would matter a whole lot more to me. Heck they make a big deal every year in the super bowl of how many 2-3 star college prospects there are in the game. I’d wager a bunch of those guys weren’t “underrated” coming out of high school and suddenly became ten times better. I’d wager most of those kids were never given an honest and accurate evaluation in the first place by the services that “gave” them their stars.

There’s a reason teams don’t just go get the guy recruiting services have the most highly rated and they do their own evaluations on every single player they consider giving a scholarship to.

Well, we actually had a decent size community at 247 until they replaced an amateur writer who lived and breathed getting recruiting information with a professional writer who could give a crap about getting recruiting information.

Substance is more important than polish and that’s why 247 shed a bunch of subscribers.

 

[orangenauburn]

Which is why I’d imagine only one way our recruiting rankings improve.

That’s to win games and be a top 25 team “consistently.” That will “force” them to rate the kids we bring in higher.

As you said, we aren’t making them money because our fan base isn’t paying for their recruiting services/ratings/tidbits/etc. and as long as they don’t give “our guys” positive evals, our fan base won’t flock to them in droves, which would then encourage them to improve our ratings and start that positive feedback loop.

If all kids were rated based on what they actually bring to the table and no outside factors, stars would matter a whole lot more to me. Heck they make a big deal every year in the super bowl of how many 2-3 star college prospects there are in the game. I’d wager a bunch of those guys weren’t “underrated” coming out of high school and suddenly became ten times better. I’d wager most of those kids were never given an honest and accurate evaluation in the first place by the services that “gave” them their stars.

There’s a reason teams don’t just go get the guy recruiting services have the most highly rated and they do their own evaluations on every single player they consider giving a scholarship to.

Also if the recruiting service guys were so good, some of the big schools would hire them as analysts

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Which is why I’d imagine only one way our recruiting rankings improve.

That’s to win games and be a top 25 team “consistently.” That will “force” them to rate the kids we bring in higher.

Would it really?

 

[Libero2]

Would it really?

If we made the top 25 3 seasons in a row for 3+ weeks each season I’d be willing to bet our next recruiting class wouldn’t be 48th….

 

[money3189]

If we made the top 25 3 seasons in a row for 3+ weeks each season I’d be willing to bet our next recruiting class wouldn’t be 48th….

Yup, Cuse would get more high profile players because there will be evidence of a winning product. Kids want to win and make the NFL. Also, the winning programs commits get the benefit of the doubt in ratings.

 

[Libero2]

Yup, Cuse would get more high profile players because there will be evidence of a winning product. Kids want to win and make the NFL. Also, the winning programs commits get the benefit of the doubt in ratings.

In my eyes even if we brought in the same talent as we had in year 1 of that 3 year streak of top 25 teams our ranking would still be bumped up above what it was because of the winning.

What I’ve always been curious about is how much do the kids care when they are recruits? Would a kid who has offers from say NC State, FSU and Cuse who prefers Cuse as an option for reasons make the decision to attend FSU because they will be a 4 star if they go there Vs a 3 star at Syracuse despite being the exact same person? Are the kids even cognizant of how that would happen? I’m sure most don’t study these things like we “have” and notice the patterns over years because they are only attentive while inside the process and frankly would be far more busy with other things than tracking this. But I’ve always been curious

 

[money3189]

In my eyes even if we brought in the same talent as we had in year 1 of that 3 year streak of top 25 teams our ranking would still be bumped up above what it was because of the winning.

What I’ve always been curious about is how much do the kids care when they are recruits? Would a kid who has offers from say NC State, FSU and Cuse who prefers Cuse as an option for reasons make the decision to attend FSU because they will be a 4 star if they go there Vs a 3 star at Syracuse despite being the exact same person? Are the kids even cognizant of how that would happen? I’m sure most don’t study these things like we “have” and notice the patterns over years because they are only attentive while inside the process and frankly would be far more busy with other things than tracking this. But I’ve always been curious

I don’t think kids will ever choose a school just for the ranking status.

 

[tep624]

I don’t think kids will ever choose a school just for the ranking status.

Not it's more-so another data point and a marketing tool, especially later in the cycle.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If we made the top 25 3 seasons in a row for 3+ weeks each season I’d be willing to bet our next recruiting class wouldn’t be 48th….

That's different than analysts upgrading a player's ratings because a player chose SU, which was the premise of the replied to post.

 

[Libero2]

That's different than analysts upgrading a player's ratings because a player chose SU, which was the premise of the replied to post.

That’s my point though. We might well be recruiting at the same level as the previous 2-3 cycles, but our ranking would improve because we’d been winning. Sure we’d like to think we’d also be getting higher level recruits, but we wouldn’t necessarily be, even if the rankings told us we were

 

[money3189]

Right after the Carroll Jackson news broke out Dohn went in and bumped rutgers commit Ian Strong to a 89 . made him the #1 player in NY ahead of a PSU recruit. This kid has no other P5 offer. His second best offer is Kent st. I'm glad he reacts like this. It just proves that he does ratings based on emotions. He has no integrity.

 

[sutomcat]

Right after the Carroll Jackson news broke out Dohn went in and bumped rutgers commit Ian Strong to a 89 . made him the #1 player in NY ahead of a PSU recruit. This kid has no other P5 offer. His second best offer is Kent st. I'm glad he reacts like this. It just proves that he does ratings based on emotions. He has no integrity.

It it like Brian is actively trying to get fired. He is very aware that people are watching what he is doing, and that what he is doing will be ridiculed and he will be publicly humiliated but he can't help himself.

This is what happens when you put a fanboy in charge of evaluating recruits. I appreciate he is staying true to his team no matter what.

He and Rutgers Al should do a reality TV show together.

 

[money3189]

It it like Brian is actively trying to get fired. He is very aware that people are watching what he is doing, and that what he is doing will be ridiculed and he will be publicly humiliated but he can't help himself.

This is what happens when you put a fanboy in charge of evaluating recruits. I appreciate he is staying true to his team no matter what.

He and Rutgers Al should do a reality TV show together.

Exactly. He cant help himself. The more we expose him the more he shows his bias. I'm fine with it. When rutgers goes 4-8 with these players it only confirms it.

 

[texascpa]

And yet Rutgers still sucks. Your number games are not helping Rutgers Dohn. It's time to find a better strategy.

 

[GoSU96]

It it like Brian is actively trying to get fired. He is very aware that people are watching what he is doing, and that what he is doing will be ridiculed and he will be publicly humiliated but he can't help himself.

This is what happens when you put a fanboy in charge of evaluating recruits. I appreciate he is staying true to his team no matter what.

He and Rutgers Al should do a reality TV show together.

Shills don’t get fired for being shills. It’s a feature, not a bug

 

[Franz69]

It it like Brian is actively trying to get fired. He is very aware that people are watching what he is doing, and that what he is doing will be ridiculed and he will be publicly humiliated but he can't help himself.

This is what happens when you put a fanboy in charge of evaluating recruits. I appreciate he is staying true to his team no matter what.

He and Rutgers Al should do a reality TV show together.

"The Odd Couple of Douchebags", starring Rutgers Al and Brian Dohn. "Can two men divorced from reality share a brain without driving SyracuseFan.com crazy?"

 

[Ozone!]

 

[Libero2]

I’m curious (but not enough to look into it) do Rutgers fans believe in Dohn’s ratings? Or do they realize it is all complete manure like everyone else does?

to use Moneys specific example, how could anyone look at strong and his offer list and say oh yes, this is one of the very best players in the country, even though nobody else at the P5 level wanted to give him an offer.

 

[money3189]

I’m curious (but not enough to look into it) do Rutgers fans believe in Dohn’s ratings? Or do they realize it is all complete manure like everyone else does?

to use Moneys specific example, how could anyone look at strong and his offer list and say oh yes, this is one of the very best players in the country, even though nobody else at the P5 level wanted to give him an offer.

They do on the rivals board. Ive seen people admit it and talk about Brian inflating rankings for 247. A lot of them left the 247 site because of him. They say he is arrogant and talks to people like he is above them. Makes a lot of snarky remarks. Many cant stand the guy.