The Coyle decision

[Cusefan78]

I've stayed out of this thread. To me, it's really simple. The team is bad. The staff makes bad decisions. The best we ever do is get in a close game. That's a pattern. Nothing we do scares our opponents. We make no effort to make the most of the one unique advantage we have. This is rock bottom.

The decision is really easy. I don't know why people want to make it difficult.

Beacuse it's not an easy decision. There is no such thing as a sure thing hire. Coaches Come in and everyone thinks they are going to save the day and they bust more times then not. Those are the facts.

 

[elimunelson]

Hamstrung is a good way to put it, but Jake was also an old-school guy with limited interests who didn't do all he could to enhance the athletic department as a whole.

I'm going to take a moment and be grateful that we've got one of the best collegiate coaches in America taking Syracuse's #2-ranked cross country team to nationals this weekend. This is a far cry from Andy Roberts sneaking cigarettes under the Manley bleachers while our running program full of sprinters waits for the snow to melt. And it pairs very well with our field hockey team's Final Four appearance and Sunday's home NCAA soccer game.

(Yeah, I took your post kind of far afield with a point I've wanted to make for a little while: post-Jake, life is good. Except for that football thing...)

I'm sure that is the case with Jake and about 100 other Athletic Depts around the turn of the century when things changed society wise, internet wise, etc. Jake was fantastic resource for Syracuse for many years. Anyone who thinks otherwise didn't work with him. The guy was one of a kind. I had my issues personally w him but I understood where he was coming from.

Our issue wasn't when Jake left it was who we hired to fill his role.

 

[phil77]

Beacuse it's not an easy decision. There is no such thing as a sure thing hire. Coaches Come in and everyone thinks they are going to save the day and they bust more times then not. Those are the facts.

But we can't have a worse hire is the point. Football wise we are near the bottom in P5 rankings. How can it get worse? We drop 2 spots to dead last? We going to lose some recruits in our bottom tier class looking at other ACC teams. What risk is there in making a coaching change?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Beacuse it's not an easy decision. There is no such thing as a sure thing hire. Coaches Come in and everyone thinks they are going to save the day and they bust more times then not. Those are the facts.

I'm saying that the sure thing is failure with the current staff.

It is very easy. Soooo easy. Even if you want to make it a question of degrees of failure, why? It's failure.

Get a new staff with a new approach that approximates what everyone else understands works in college football and just happens to be conducive to the Dome. I don't even care if it fails. Trying matters. We're failing anyway.

 

[qdawgg]

Beacuse it's not an easy decision. There is no such thing as a sure thing hire. Coaches Come in and everyone thinks they are going to save the day and they bust more times then not. Those are the facts.

Do you have a link to the statistics that prove new coaches are more likely to fail? Because I don't think that's a fact.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm saying that the sure thing is failure with the current staff.

It is very easy. Soooo easy. Even if you want to make it a question of degrees of failure, why? It's failure.

Get a new staff with a new approach that approximates what everyone else understands works in college football and just happens to be conducive to the Dome. I don't even care if it fails. Trying matters. We're failing anyway.

Kind of been my point from the get go, decision makes itself really and if the finances are that dire, which I don't believe they actually are we stand no choice of competing anyway. That said, work around it, dig deeper if need be, find a Dino Babers before he went to BG or a Montgomery before he went to Tulsa, somebody who wants the job within the current budget, stranger things have happened. Go hire the best coach from the IVY or FCS, try something because what we have now isn't working. I just don't buy staying the course

 

[elimunelson]

I ask again but do we have ONE booster who can write a check to allow for Syracuse to go hire a coach. I see LSU can wave their magic wand and write a 17mm check for a buyout. Who is this mysterious booster(s) who is that flush to do that. I would think Syracuse has a few of these cats no?

 

[elimunelson]

Actually if we hire Joe Moglia, he's loaded enough that we can stipulate that he self funds his own buyout slush fund. Problem solved.

Moglia/Orgeron 2016. Let's Make Syracuse Great Again.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm sure that is the case with Jake and about 100 other Athletic Depts around the turn of the century when things changed society wise, internet wise, etc. Jake was fantastic resource for Syracuse for many years. Anyone who thinks otherwise didn't work with him. The guy was one of a kind. I had my issues personally w him but I understood where he was coming from.

Our issue wasn't when Jake left it was who we hired to fill his role.

Smart guy, good manager, not a boat-rocker or innovator. Good AD in many respects.

 

[Cusefan78]

Do you have a link to the statistics that prove new coaches are more likely to fail? Because I don't think that's a fact.

http://freakonomics.com/2012/12/21/is-changing-the-coach-really-the-answer/

 

[Cusefan78]

I'm not saying there aren't slam dunk hires. But lots of times the grass isn't greener. Edsall, strong, golden, Rich rod at Michigan, Kiffin at usc, norm chow at Hawaii, this list goes on and on on coaches that were hot and went on to bust. Yes there are good hires but no coach is a sure fit

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not saying there aren't slam dunk hires. But lots of times the grass isn't greener. Edsall, strong, golden, Rich rod at Michigan, Kiffin at usc, norm chow at Hawaii, this list goes on and on on coaches that were hot and went on to bust. Yes there are good hires but no coach is a sure fit

I'm saying I don't care. I have no faith in what we're doing currently, or that the staff will change what they do enough to matter.

It's not change for the sake of change. It's change because there are only so many levers to pull to get off the road to nowhere, and the staff is the most obvious one. So pull the lever.

 

[Chris02M]

I've stayed out of this thread. To me, it's really simple. The team is bad. The staff makes bad decisions. The best we ever do is get in a close game. That's a pattern. Nothing we do scares our opponents. We make no effort to make the most of the one unique advantage we have. This is rock bottom.

The decision is actually really easy. I don't know why people want to make it difficult.

this is no where near rock bottom as that was during grob years

 

[OttoinGrotto]

this is no where near rock bottom as that was during grob years

Yeah, so, it doesn't matter.

 

[Cusefan78]

Yeah, so, it doesn't matter.

It should matter. That's crazy talk. It could get a lot worse.

 

[kcsu]

I'm saying I don't care. I have no faith in what we're doing currently, or that the staff will change what they do enough to matter.

It's not change for the sake of change. It's change because there are only so many levers to pull to get off the road to nowhere, and the staff is the most obvious one. So pull the lever.

You are kidding right?

 

[Alsacs]

It should matter. That's crazy talk. It could get a lot worse.

It could get worse? Yeah we could lose to Wake and then we will have beaten no other P5 teams in the last 2 years.

Seriously, last year was a GRob season, this season has been awful. We are -18 PPG on the road and that includes the 3OT game vs. UVA. Next year the schedule is tougher with only 2 OOC home games and Virginia Tech over Virginia.

Keeping SS another year means we are likely 2-10 or 3-9. Oh boy it could get worse. It can only get worse if this AD hires his version of Greg Robinson which I highly doubt he will hire a zero experienced HC who was an awful NFL DC. I think this AD would do better than that.

 

[Chris02M]

It could get worse? Yeah we could lose to Wake and then we will have beaten no other P5 teams in the last 2 years.

Seriously, last year was a GRob season, this season has been awful. We are -18 PPG on the road and that includes the 3OT game vs. UVA. Next year the schedule is tougher with only 2 OOC home games and Virginia Tech over Virginia.

Keeping SS another year means we are likely 2-10 or 3-9. Oh boy it could get worse. It can only get worse if this AD hires his version of Greg Robinson which I highly doubt he will hire a zero experienced HC who was an awful NFL DC. I think this AD would do better than that.

i get you want to change coaches but your constant looking ahead to the next season when we dont know how the acc schedule will work out and assuming we will do worse by keeping the coaching staff is a bit maddening, coaches improve and despite the fire shafer crowds claims he has gotten better at coaching in game, players improve maybe luck will go our way and the refs wont completely butcher 2-3 calls a game. The youth playing this year cost us at least 1 and probably 2 games this year. If Coyle wants to give Shafer another year(via an extention) i am ok with it. The schedule is about the same as it always will be while playing acc schedule while being in the much tougher division

 

[oldpinepoint]

we are very far from rock bottom as a program. I mean we aren't even close.

 

[Alsacs]

i get you want to change coaches but your constant looking ahead to the next season when we dont know how the acc schedule will work out and assuming we will do worse by keeping the coaching staff is a bit maddening, coaches improve and despite the fire shafer crowds claims he has gotten better at coaching in game, players improve maybe luck will go our way and the refs wont completely butcher 2-3 calls a game. The youth playing this year cost us at least 1 and probably 2 games this year. If Coyle wants to give Shafer another year(via an extention) i am ok with it. The schedule is about the same as it always will be while playing acc schedule while being in the much tougher division

The looking ahead to next season is based on the data we have with this staff against ACC competition.
Our OOC schedule is a lot harder next year USF, @UConn, ND and Colgate.
Then our conference schedule is Virginia Tech over Virginia. If we can't get 6 wins against this schedule I don't think it is possible we can next year. Why give another year just to pray for luck.
Our OL loses a lot of experience and has been inconsistent this year. Our OL coach is not good and because SS hired a person who never coached OL in college football this shouldn't be shocking nor expected to be better next year.

It is maddening when if you look at Einstein's quote those who ignore history are bound to repeat it. This staff has shown what it is. Please do not bring refs into this that is such a joke. If the D doesn't commit that face mask penalty the damn fumbled in the first half is irrelevant. We couldn't stop Pitt the final 10 minutes of the game. Our HC thought we could make a comeback down 31 with 5 minutes and got our QB hurt when the previous week in the same situation he took the QB out.

Sorry this staff has won 3 games maybe 4 against a schedule primed to win 6 games. This staff does not deserve another and unless money isn't given to the AD to make a change they are likely gone.

Defending 2-16 against P5 is illogical.

 

[Crusty]

It should matter. That's crazy talk. It could get a lot worse.

0-12?

 

[Scooch]

Beacuse it's not an easy decision. There is no such thing as a sure thing hire. Coaches Come in and everyone thinks they are going to save the day and they bust more times then not. Those are the facts.

It might not be "easy" but it's relatively obvious if you lay out a set of criteria and evaluate against them.

You determine what the ceiling is with the current staff, figure how long it'll take to get there, how sustainable it is, and decide if that's what you want.

Bosses are paid to do that.

 

[bgdadydnk]

Fair enough. But tell me, was that coaching, or the fact that our O line is not opening up enough holes, that we don't have a TE that can get separation (or catch it when he does), that our RB, while tricky, is small and slow, or that our WR's struggle to get separation against mid-level ACC teams, etc., etc.. (you get the point).

I think you'd have to be a magician to "scheme" away all these personnel weaknesses.

I disagree with most of this......there are kids on that team that can do that.....Fredericks is NOT slow...there are TE's that can get seperation... and the WR's can too!! You must be one of those "glass half empty guys"......LOL

 

[Chris02M]

The looking ahead to next season is based on the data we have with this staff against ACC competition.
Our OOC schedule is a lot harder next year USF, @UConn, ND and Colgate.
Then our conference schedule is Virginia Tech over Virginia. If we can't get 6 wins against this schedule I don't think it is possible we can next year. Why give another year just to pray for luck.
Our OL loses a lot of experience and has been inconsistent this year. Our OL coach is not good and because SS hired a person who never coached OL in college football this shouldn't be shocking nor expected to be better next year.

It is maddening when if you look at Einstein's quote those who ignore history are bound to repeat it. This staff has shown what it is. Please do not bring refs into this that is such a joke. If the D doesn't commit that face mask penalty the damn fumbled in the first half is irrelevant. We couldn't stop Pitt the final 10 minutes of the game. Our HC thought we could make a comeback down 31 with 5 minutes and got our QB hurt when the previous week in the same situation he took the QB out.

Sorry this staff has won 3 games maybe 4 against a schedule primed to win 6 games. This staff does not deserve another and unless money isn't given to the AD to make a change they are likely gone.

Defending 2-16 against P5 is illogical.

a lot harder is incorrect. Nd is a wash to slighter tougher with LSU , @ uconn is not harder than @ USF. CMU vs usf at home is about the same as cmu was a bowl team last year. Virginia tech is at home(at least until dome renovation plan is and whether home games will be lost, anyway its not in blacksburg) and lets actually see who there coach is and VT is going to be barely a bowl team. Speculation on what this years schedule was primed to do doesn't factor in a complete rebuild on defense with a whole new offense and playing lots of freshman and sophmores. I thought if things broke right 6 wins was possible bur most had us around 4-5 wins which is where we will likely finish. I would be betting as much on the younger players improving as coach improving his gameday decision. SHafer never said we were going to comeback to win the Louisville game that dungey was hurt in he was trying to build his confidence as it was pretty much the worst game he had played all year. The pitt game was a tough one to take but we did stop them but then they fake punted us and we blew the coverage

 

[Chris02M]

if Coyle wants to make a change or if he wants to give him another year because he thinks the team is going towards the right direction i am i am fine with it.

 

[phil77]

if Coyle wants to make a change or if he wants to give him another year because he thinks the team is going towards the right direction i am i am fine with it.

How can you sell anyone that this is going in the right direction?? We could very well be coming off back to back 3-9 seasons on a current 9 game losing streak (worst possible case)? Sell me it is going in the right direction?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It should matter. That's crazy talk. It could get a lot worse.

I have no hope right now. With Grob I knew we were stupid by nature, so there was some hope we could get better by being smarter. I think right now we're choosing to be stupid. That's worse to me. No hope.

You are kidding right?

Not at all. Completely serious.

It might not be "easy" but it's relatively obvious if you lay out a set of criteria and evaluate against them.

You determine what the ceiling is with the current staff, figure how long it'll take to get there, how sustainable it is, and decide if that's what you want.

Bosses are paid to do that.

Exactly.