The drip on this Brady case shows how awful a commish Roger Goodell truly is | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

The drip on this Brady case shows how awful a commish Roger Goodell truly is

CuseFaninVT said:
Why can't they? It's their club. They decide the rules.
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Nothing in the Collective Bargaining Agreement gives them power to suspend players for not complying. That was the key to Saints Players suspensions being overturned by Tagliabue. The NFLPA in their lawsuit filing showed the CBA doesn't give that authority and also nowhere during this procedure was Brady told he had to hand over their phone. Also, Brady offered the relevant information on his phone to the NFL, but the NFL wants to overlook that when they are playing this PR game.
 
Alsacs said:
Nothing in the Collective Bargaining Agreement gives them power to suspend players for not complying. That was the key to Saints Players suspensions being overturned by Tagliabue. The NFLPA in their lawsuit filing showed the CBA doesn't give that authority and also nowhere during this procedure was Brady told he had to hand over their phone. Also, Brady offered the relevant information on his phone to the NFL, but the NFL wants to overlook that when they are playing this PR game.
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but that's not what the suspension was for. the suspension was for cheating - directing the ball boys to underinflate the balls. and while the evidence would never have held up in an actual court, clearly there was enough circumstantial evidence that even some pats fans (and clearly you aren't there yet) realize that brady was cheating - following the same pattern his head coach had shown in years past.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
but that's not what the suspension was for. the suspension was for cheating - directing the ball boys to underinflate the balls. and while the evidence would never have held up in an actual court, clearly there was enough circumstantial evidence that even some pats fans (and clearly you aren't there yet) realize that brady was cheating - following the same pattern his head coach had shown in years past.
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This is a yes or no question do you realize the NFL doesn't even know if their was cheating in the AFC championship game. Do you know this. The evidence never said Brady directed the ball boys to do anything. This is the freaking problem the actual facts don't say this. They said Brady should have been generally aware not that he told them to do anything illegal. If they could prove Brady told them to underinflate footballs this case is sealed. The text messages are in relation to game from October when the NFL acknowledges the balls were OVERINFLATED by the referees in a game week 6 against the NY Jets.

See you don't the facts and want to hammer. Thinking he cheated is fine because it hasn't been disproven by saying the NFL has proven he has cheated is patently false and why the case is the Federal court.
 
Alsacs said:
This lawyer explain the NY law pretty well and why Brady has a good argument.
http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2015/08/another-home-field-advantage-for-tom.html

Brady's team has to show evident partiality. They have to show the person administering the arbitration was biased and not fair. Since Goodell administered the hearing that won't be hard when if those goes to court and doesn't settle the NFLPA would argue Goodell was a potential witness and thus couldn't administer a fair proceeding when his testimony was part of the arbitration.

The judge of this case has basically said he wants a settlement by his letter to both sides and demanding Brady/Goodell personally attend the conferences pre-trial to try and resolve the matter. The judge is Judge Berman who was a Clinton appointee so I am sure both sides will know his history and a settlement will likely occur.
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Yeah I agree this seems to finally be heading towards a settlement.
 
https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/ex-204-appeal-hearing-transcript-t-brady.pdf

I just read the whole transcript of this appeal. Goodell comes off dumber than Ms. Teen South Carolina talking about maps.
If people actually read it they say the NFL has nothing and Brady testifies UNDER OATH and in front of perjury charges he was innocent. The NFL really manipulated the phone broken if you read the transcript. The NFLPA/Brady will not settle this case unless the entire suspension is lifted now. The NFL looks bad in this. Read how stupid Troy Vincent was as a witness ans the multiple times Goodell shows stupidity.
 
Alsacs said:
https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/ex-204-appeal-hearing-transcript-t-brady.pdf

I just read the whole transcript of this appeal. Goodell comes off dumber than Ms. Teen South Carolina talking about maps.
If people actually read it they say the NFL has nothing and Brady testifies UNDER OATH and in front of perjury charges he was innocent. The NFL really manipulated the phone broken if you read the transcript. The NFLPA/Brady will not settle this case unless the entire suspension is lifted now. The NFL looks bad in this. Read how stupid Troy Vincent was as a witness ans the multiple times Goodell shows stupidity.
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/deflategate-appeal-hearing-begins-1435066447

Legal experts said that New York penal law isn’t clear on whether a sworn statement made at an NFL appeal hearing carries the potential risk of a perjury prosecution. The state’s perjury law is broadly written to suggest that a person can perjure himself outside the context of an official proceeding or civil deposition, even when the statement is made to a private body.

Rutgers School of Law-Newark professor Stuart P. Green, author of “Lying, Cheating, and Stealing: A Moral Theory of White Collar Crime,” said he is doubtful that perjury law is applicable to the NFL appeal hearing unless it is somehow construed as part of an National Labor Relations Board proceeding.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/deflategate-appeal-hearing-begins-1435066447

Legal experts said that New York penal law isn’t clear on whether a sworn statement made at an NFL appeal hearing carries the potential risk of a perjury prosecution. The state’s perjury law is broadly written to suggest that a person can perjure himself outside the context of an official proceeding or civil deposition, even when the statement is made to a private body.

Rutgers School of Law-Newark professor Stuart P. Green, author of “Lying, Cheating, and Stealing: A Moral Theory of White Collar Crime,” said he is doubtful that perjury law is applicable to the NFL appeal hearing unless it is somehow construed as part of an National Labor Relations Board proceeding.
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The judge will consider the fact Brady testified under oath that his testimony has weight to his creditability. If you think Brady is a cheater now you are saying the guy is liar under oath. Sorry he is opening himself up to a perjury charge.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/04/tom-brady-appeal-roger-goodell-ted-wells-transcript

Also that transcript shows how much of a kangaroo court that appeal hearing was. Also it shows the NFL wanted this hearing sealed which counters NFL leaks and shows how dumb Troy Vincent/Ted Wells were.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
but that's not what the suspension was for. the suspension was for cheating - directing the ball boys to underinflate the balls. and while the evidence would never have held up in an actual court, clearly there was enough circumstantial evidence that even some pats fans (and clearly you aren't there yet) realize that brady was cheating - following the same pattern his head coach had shown in years past.
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This is not entirely accurate. Goodell mentions Brady not providing his phone as part of the decision for the suspension. Failure to cooperate with the investigation. He actually states in his letter that this jus an area that lead to his decision, as did Ted Wells in his decision, despite the fact that Wells is on record saying he did not need the phone, and that he never advised Brady or anyone else that he could be penalized for not providing the phone.

no with that said clearly your mind is made up on the issue, as is Alsacs and mine for that matters.

I will ask this to all fans of the NFL if you have any concerns regarding the way the NFL acted. From my view, although biased i believe there were many things done throughout the course of this incident that the NFL acted irresponsibly, and as a fan of the league i am a bit put off by their actions.
 
Tobias Funke said:
This is not entirely accurate. Goodell mentions Brady not providing his phone as part of the decision for the suspension. Failure to cooperate with the investigation. He actually states in his letter that this jus an area that lead to his decision, as did Ted Wells in his decision, despite the fact that Wells is on record saying he did not need the phone, and that he never advised Brady or anyone else that he could be penalized for not providing the phone.

no with that said clearly your mind is made up on the issue, as is Alsacs and mine for that matters.

I will ask this to all fans of the NFL if you have any concerns regarding the way the NFL acted. From my view, although biased i believe there were many things done throughout the course of this incident that the NFL acted irresponsibly, and as a fan of the league i am a bit put off by their actions.
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Do you think the Pats did anything to the footballs?
 
CuseFaninVT said:
Do you think the Pats did anything to the footballs?
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Answer my question and I will answer yours, is that how this game is played? i asked you a question if you have any issues with the way the NFL has acted regardless of whether the Patriots or Brady did anything wrong.

To answer your question i have had the chance to meet Brady on numerous occasions and feel he has a lot of integrity and i like to believe he didn't do anything. There has also been a lot of information that shows conflicting results on the Ideal Gas law. If someone can show me definitively that there was no way the deflation happened naturally, or that the measurement apparatus was well regulated then i have no choice but to agree there was foul play. That said if Brady or any team employee did release some air, i have issue with it, but it does not change my opinion on how the NFL has acted throughout this process. Quite frankly I think their behavior is embarrassing, and i fail to understand why people allow their judgement to be clouded so badly against that Patriots that they cannot see that both sides have clearly acted poorly in many instances during this fiasco.
 
Tobias Funke said:
Answer my question and I will answer yours, is that how this game is played? i asked you a question if you have any issues with the way the NFL has acted regardless of whether the Patriots or Brady did anything wrong.

To answer your question i have had the chance to meet Brady on numerous occasions and feel he has a lot of integrity and i like to believe he didn't do anything. There has also been a lot of information that shows conflicting results on the Ideal Gas law. If someone can show me definitively that there was no way the deflation happened naturally, or that the measurement apparatus was well regulated then i have no choice but to agree there was foul play. That said if Brady or any team employee did release some air, i have issue with it, but it does not change my opinion on how the NFL has acted throughout this process. Quite frankly I think their behavior is embarrassing, and i fail to understand why people allow their judgement to be clouded so badly against that Patriots that they cannot see that both sides have clearly acted poorly in many instances during this fiasco.
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I don't have an issue with the way the NFL acted. As I said before, it's their club, they decide on the rules. To catch a cheater maybe you really do need to lower yourself to their standards. I have no doubt that Brady is smart enough to not put anything incriminating in writing, but there is little doubt in my mind that he told those two guys who have been fired to do something outside the rules of the game.

I'm sure Brady is a good enough person outside of the game, as is evidenced by the time he actually rescued someone in a car crash if I remember. And I believe you are letting your love of the Pats get in the way of you being objective about them and their past track record. And maybe I'm being biased because living in Pats country I get to hear defense of the Pats constantly. I live in an area where the local radio guys are like listening to you and Alsacs for the love of God!
 
CuseFaninVT said:
I don't have an issue with the way the NFL acted. As I said before, it's their club, they decide on the rules. To catch a cheater maybe you really do need to lower yourself to their standards. I have no doubt that Brady is smart enough to not put anything incriminating in writing, but there is little doubt in my mind that he told those two guys who have been fired to do something outside the rules of the game.

I'm sure Brady is a good enough person outside of the game, as is evidenced by the time he actually rescued someone in a car crash if I remember. And I believe you are letting your love of the Pats get in the way of you being objective about them and their past track record. And maybe I'm being biased because living in Pats country I get to hear defense of the Pats constantly. I live in an area where the local radio guys are like listening to you and Alsacs for the love of God!
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I have already acknowledged my bias. I agree that you probably are biased as well. I consider myself to me a big fan, but try to be reasonable in these cases. What we have in this case is the Pats fan who defend Brady to the death, and the non-Pats fan who will accept anything against the Patriots. If the NFL has been forthcoming in this process they would have measured the balls pre game, then re-measured at the field and addressed it then. instead they waited until halftime to catch the Pats in the act and disregarded some significant pressure drops in the Colts balls as a gauge issue. I don't know who you follow, but if the NFL leaked false information about your team, and disregarded readings from one of the pressure gauges, hired a "independent investigator" who employed his partner as part of the investigation, and then that individual was lead counsel on the appeal representing the NFL, i believe regardless of guilt you would be pretty off put.

The league has talked about integrity of the game, but has practiced very little integrity in upholding it.
 
Tobias Funke said:
I have already acknowledged my bias. I agree that you probably are biased as well. I consider myself to me a big fan, but try to be reasonable in these cases. What we have in this case is the Pats fan who defend Brady to the death, and the non-Pats fan who will accept anything against the Patriots. If the NFL has been forthcoming in this process they would have measured the balls pre game, then re-measured at the field and addressed it then. instead they waited until halftime to catch the Pats in the act and disregarded some significant pressure drops in the Colts balls as a gauge issue. I don't know who you follow, but if the NFL leaked false information about your team, and disregarded readings from one of the pressure gauges, hired a "independent investigator" who employed his partner as part of the investigation, and then that individual was lead counsel on the appeal representing the NFL, i believe regardless of guilt you would be pretty off put.

The league has talked about integrity of the game, but has practiced very little integrity in upholding it.
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I've lost almost all interest in football. That's why it's easy to be on the outside for me poking at all the Pats fans up here, despite the fact they won the Superbowl again.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
As I said before, it's their club, they decide on the rules.
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That is not how a collectively bargained work site operates. The owners and players are partners. The owners do not get to do whatever they want.
 
So, Roger misrepresented Brady's testimony, thinking the docs would remain sealed..but they were not. Roger looks more and more like the liar Bill Simmons got suspended for calling him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-...aves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

another question..who DOESNT think balls can deflate themselves? You ever pumped up a basketball in your garage and then leave it there for a while..and come back and its flat? I can assure you tom brady's boys didnt do that to your ball
 
Tobias Funke said:
I have already acknowledged my bias. I agree that you probably are biased as well. I consider myself to me a big fan, but try to be reasonable in these cases. What we have in this case is the Pats fan who defend Brady to the death, and the non-Pats fan who will accept anything against the Patriots. If the NFL has been forthcoming in this process they would have measured the balls pre game, then re-measured at the field and addressed it then. instead they waited until halftime to catch the Pats in the act and disregarded some significant pressure drops in the Colts balls as a gauge issue. I don't know who you follow, but if the NFL leaked false information about your team, and disregarded readings from one of the pressure gauges, hired a "independent investigator" who employed his partner as part of the investigation, and then that individual was lead counsel on the appeal representing the NFL, i believe regardless of guilt you would be pretty off put.

The league has talked about integrity of the game, but has practiced very little integrity in upholding it.
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I liked the part part where the "investigator" said he drew conclusions in the same manner as juries. Was his job to find guilt. Something about that wording bothered me.
 
Capt. Tuttle said:
I liked the part part where the "investigator" said he drew conclusions in the same manner as juries. Was his job to find guilt. Something about that wording bothered me.
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I agree. seems the media is really digging into the unsealed documents right now and the gloves are off. There are a lot of issues coming out regarding the way it was handled. Guilty or not, the NFL made sure that in the court of public opinion Goodell looked strong again, and the Patriots, specifically Tom Brady had no chance at exoneration.
 
Tobias Funke said:
I agree. seems the media is really digging into the unsealed documents right now and the gloves are off. There are a lot of issues coming out regarding the way it was handled. Guilty or not, the NFL made sure that in the court of public opinion Goodell looked strong again, and the Patriots, specifically Tom Brady had no chance at exoneration.
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That 20 page report Goodell made where he specially lied about Brady's testimony in affirming his suspension is actual malice that Brady as a public citizen needs for a defamation lawsuit.

Brady could sue Goodell and the NFL in MA State Court that is in his back pocket. In these pre-trial conferences don't think now that the documents have been unsealed and are public Brady's team isn't using the threat of a lawsuit for leverage along with the other facts.
 
STEVEHOLT said:
So, Roger misrepresented Brady's testimony, thinking the docs would remain sealed..but they were not. Roger looks more and more like the liar Bill Simmons got suspended for calling him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-...aves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

another question..who DOESNT think balls can deflate themselves? You ever pumped up a basketball in your garage and then leave it there for a while..and come back and its flat? I can assure you tom brady's boys didnt do that to your ball
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It never happens that quickly, even if it's really cold in your garage. Sheesh. I give up.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
It never happens that quickly, even if it's really cold in your garage. Sheesh. I give up.
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It is okay to feel they are guilty but again the Ideal Gas Law has already shown that Patriots balls were within what science would say they should have been. The balls WERE NOT DEFLATED BY 2 PSI that was a false report the Wells report even showed was false.

If the balls were down 2 PSI then it is obvious that something happened the Ideal Gas Law said if the Pats were at 12.5 based on the weather and rain the PSI should be between 11.3 and 11.6. The Patriots balls were 11.55 this is why the NFL can't even prove manipulation even took place. The NFL admits they had no clue about the science before this even began. Cmon man if you don't like the Patriots that is fine but the NFL was blind, ignorant, bias and dumb during this investigation.
 
Alsacs said:
It is okay to feel they are guilty but again the Ideal Gas Law has already shown that Patriots balls were within what science would say they should have been. The balls WERE NOT DEFLATED BY 2 PSI that was a false report the Wells report even showed was false.

If the balls were down 2 PSI then it is obvious that something happened the Ideal Gas Law said if the Pats were at 12.5 based on the weather and rain the PSI should be between 11.3 and 11.6. The Patriots balls were 11.55 this is why the NFL can't even prove manipulation even took place. The NFL admits they had no clue about the science before this even began. Cmon man if you don't like the Patriots that is fine but the NFL was blind, ignorant, bias and dumb during this investigation.
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And you are just seeing what you want to see. Show me the page in the wells report where it says that. I don't have time to go looking through it all again.
 
dasher said:
Didn't you say that before the last judge? You do know that should Brady lose here, he will just appeal to the whole 2ud district. Very unlikely that he would lose there.
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Why is that unlikely?

I'm admittedly out of my depth on how this all works now, but one of the legal reporters had said that the NFL is hoping for these judges to rule in their favor in a way that it doesn't go back to Berman, and that if the NFLPA tries to appeal again, they'd be rejected by the 2nd district or something like that.
 
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