This Paul George...wow

[Alsacs]

Jordan didnt do as much as Lebron can do on the court? What? What exactly didnt Jordan do that Lebron does?

Jordan once averaged 33 pts., 8 rebounds, 8 assists, 3 steals and 54% shooting, while being 1st team all defense.

He was the best offensive and defensive player on the court every single night for a good stretch. Memories really do fade, been seeing more and more of this kind of talk and it's just not true.

And I really like Paul George, but now I'm almost hoping he puts on one of his uninspired, sleepyhead NyQuil performances soon just so some of you guys will calm down on him!

I read Simmons book as well, and that season Jordan went with those numbers he wasn't the MVP because of Magic Johnson, and Charles Barkley's numbers. Jordan is the better player than Lebron James because Jordan went 6 for 6 in the NBA Finals, and played in an era where hard fouls were routinely given on any layup and you could get away with handchecking. Lebron James can guard more positions than Jordan 1-4. Lebron can't guard centers likes the media likes to portray but Lebron can guard PG thru PF. Also, Lebron is a better passer than Jordan. Jordan is GOAT, but Lebron James is doing stuff in a body like Karl Malone that Jordan couldn't do.

George isn't Lebron, but this is playoffs not game 45 in a back to back in Detroit. In the playoffs he isn't going to play lazy. He was all-NBA 2nd team defense and is only 23 years old.

 

[Alsacs]

David West averaged 3 ppg fewer than his average and shot 4% lower than his average against the Knicks. My eyes saw an undersized forward with a torn labrum in his shoulder put on an extremely gritty and effective defensive performance.

But that can't be true. He's lazy on defense and selfish, and is only good at scoring. That's what everybody says anyways, so I'll just assume its true and repeat it.

What is wrong with calling Carmelo Anthony this generation's Bernard King? Carmelo is a stud top 5 offensive player, but his defense isn't elite but above-average. The Knicks supporting cast is garbage and Tyson Chandler was obviously injured, but calling Melo a top 10 NBA player is reasonable and that is how is perceived nationally.

 

[OrangeDW]

I read Simmons book as well, and that season Jordan went with those numbers he wasn't the MVP because of Magic Johnson, and Charles Barkley's numbers. Jordan is the better player than Lebron James because Jordan went 6 for 6 in the NBA Finals, and played in an era where hard fouls were routinely given on any layup and you could get away with handchecking. Lebron James can guard more positions than Jordan 1-4. Lebron can't guard centers likes the media likes to portray but Lebron can guard PG thru PF. Also, Lebron is a better passer than Jordan. Jordan is GOAT, but Lebron James is doing stuff in a body like Karl Malone that Jordan couldn't do.

George isn't Lebron, but this is playoffs not game 45 in a back to back in Detroit. In the playoffs he isn't going to play lazy. He was all-NBA 2nd team defense and is only 23 years old.

Lebron can guard more positions, but he can't guard any of them as well as Jordan. Jordan was the better defender. Lebron is very good and versatile though.

I'll give Lebron the passing, but Jordan could do that too. I wasn't saying that there's nothing at all that Lebron is better at. Just that he doesn't do anything that Jordan "couldn't do". Jordan did everything on the court too.

As for George, I don't think that he's lazy. I think it's more that his focus and concentration aren't always there, as his defense on the game winning layup, and passing to his bench showed. I think it's more a mental thing that should improve with experience.

 

[Gabjon]

We need a dislike button desperately! Indiana is proving one thing and one only. That basketball is a TEAM game! George isn't the best player on his team! (never mind top 10 in the league) That would be Hibbert who has the biggest mismatch on the court, Lebron is the best player on the court but he does not the biggest mismatch and I give George credit for that, but Lebron scored 36pts on 70% shooting last nigh! Indiana has the next 3 best players and 5 of the top 8 players are on the Pacers. It's a team game!

Where Lebron falls short of MJ is Mike was great at getting into a bigs body and finishing with flip shots and scoop shots high of glass etc. Lebron has more of a power game where there is a greater chance for a no call or a offensive foul, the issue is Hibbert only had 4 fouls called against him last night but he got Miami's bigs in serious foul trouble and went to line 10 times making 9.

When teams zone up against Lebron I think his size works against him because he can't get in the gaps and is forced to pass. The problem is he is shooting 70% and he is passing to guys who are not shooting well never mind 70%. Personally I think Lebron needs to shoot more even if his efficiency goes down a bit.

 

[OrangeDW]

What is wrong with calling Carmelo Anthony this generation's Bernard King? Carmelo is a stud top 5 offensive player, but his defense isn't elite but above-average. The Knicks supporting cast is garbage and Tyson Chandler was obviously injured, but calling Melo a top 10 NBA player is reasonable and that is how is perceived nationally.

Nothing's wrong with what you said because that's reality...though I think argument can be made he's a top 5 player. I think you can argue he's anywhere from 3rd to 12th or so and it would be reasonable.

However that stuff is hard to measure. How do you really know whose better when you're comparing across positions? I can confidently say he's the 3rd best SF right now.

The problem is many dont say what you said. Those who knock him say he sucks on defense and isn't good at anything besides scoring.

 

[cusetown1]

Lebron's a great player in a league not nearly as good as it used to be. That's all I can come up with.

 

[OrangeDW]

We need a dislike button desperately! Indiana is proving one thing and one only. That basketball is a TEAM game! George isn't the best player on his team! (never mind top 10 in the league) That would be Hibbert who has the biggest mismatch on the court,

I completely agree with your overall point. I watched basically every minute of the Knicks series, and I wouldn't say that George was Indiana's best player in ANY one of those games. Depending on the game, either Hibbert, West, Hill, or Stephenson was Indiana's "player of the game".

Now, on average George is their best overall player. Being the 2nd best player most nights beats being the best one night and 5th best another(like Stephenson or Hill often are). But Hibbert has been their playoff MVP so far.

But George certainly isn't in a position where he has a "supporting cast". They're all the supporting cast! George is simply the best overall, all around player...and has the potential to become a superstar and top 3 player. Those who are putting him there now are jumping the gun. Maybe they recognize the obvious and want to be on board early, but in reality he has not PlAYED himself to that level yet.

 

[Guinness]

I read Simmons book as well, and that season Jordan went with those numbers he wasn't the MVP because of Magic Johnson, and Charles Barkley's numbers. Jordan is the better player than Lebron James because Jordan went 6 for 6 in the NBA Finals, and played in an era where hard fouls were routinely given on any layup and you could get away with handchecking. Lebron James can guard more positions than Jordan 1-4. Lebron can't guard centers likes the media likes to portray but Lebron can guard PG thru PF. Also, Lebron is a better passer than Jordan. Jordan is GOAT, but Lebron James is doing stuff in a body like Karl Malone that Jordan couldn't do.

George isn't Lebron, but this is playoffs not game 45 in a back to back in Detroit. In the playoffs he isn't going to play lazy. He was all-NBA 2nd team defense and is only 23 years old.

I think he can guard 1 -3 but given the lack of really good power forwards in the game right now I cannot see him guarding a legit 4 like Malone or McHale. The position in today's game has changed a ton.

 

[Alsacs]

We need a dislike button desperately! Indiana is proving one thing and one only. That basketball is a TEAM game! George isn't the best player on his team! (never mind top 10 in the league) That would be Hibbert who has the biggest mismatch on the court, Lebron is the best player on the court but he does not the biggest mismatch and I give George credit for that, but Lebron scored 36pts on 70% shooting last nigh! Indiana has the next 3 best players and 5 of the top 8 players are on the Pacers. It's a team game!

Where Lebron falls short of MJ is Mike was great at getting into a bigs body and finishing with flip shots and scoop shots high of glass etc. Lebron has more of a power game where there is a greater chance for a no call or a offensive foul, the issue is Hibbert only had 4 fouls called against him last night but he got Miami's bigs in serious foul trouble and went to line 10 times making 9.

When teams zone up against Lebron I think his size works against him because he can't get in the gaps and is forced to pass. The problem is he is shooting 70% and he is passing to guys who are not shooting well never mind 70%. Personally I think Lebron needs to shoot more even if his efficiency goes down a bit.

I am giving both of likes, but realize everyone can have different opinions. I don't expect either of you to agree with, but what you both and OrangeDW said is reasonable and could be right, and what I said is reasonable and could be right. I think George is a budding superstar, and honestly with how the refs coddle Lebron on fouls I think sometimes whenever he misses he is going to get a whistle even if that sounds outrageous. The best player I saw defend Lebron this year was Jeff Green from Boston and Lebron still hate his lunch. I want to see George defend Lebron in Indiana where the crowd will intimidate the refs more than they will in Miami. Indiana has had to keep George off James because of foul trouble. Hill/Stevensen have been guarding Lebron a lot. I agree Indiana has 5 of the top 8 players George, Hibbert, West, Hill, Stevensen vs. Lebron, Bosh, and Wade is hurt, but still good. I just hope Indiana continues taking advantage of its mismatches and is able to win. BTW, the best point anyone has made is your point about Lebron's shooting percentage. Lebron doesn't want to take more shots because he wants to be deemed as the most efficient scorer. He wants to shoot 60-70% and doesn't want to take more shots even though he is his team's best option and Allen/Battier are struggling.

 

[Alsacs]

I completely agree with your overall point. I watched basically every minute of the Knicks series, and I wouldn't say that George was Indiana's best player in ANY one of those games. Depending on the game, either Hibbert, West, Hill, or Stephenson was Indiana's "player of the game".

Now, on average George is their best overall player. Being the 2nd best player most nights beats being the best one night and 5th best another(like Stephenson or Hill often are). But Hibbert has been their playoff MVP so far.

But George certainly isn't in a position where he has a "supporting cast". They're all the supporting cast! George is simply the best overall, all around player...and has the potential to become a superstar and top 3 player. Those who are putting him there now are jumping the gun. Maybe they recognize the obvious and want to be on board early, but in reality he has not PlAYED himself to that level yet.

Again, I completely think everything you are saying is fair, and I have jumped on the George bandwagon since March. I never realized how good he was until watching Indiana consistently I may be jumping the gun in ranking him 3rd I just see the potential and think if he conquers Lebron look out.

 

[OrangeDW]

I am giving both of likes, but realize everyone can have different opinions. I don't expect either of you to agree with, but what you both and OrangeDW said is reasonable and could be right, and what I said is reasonable and could be right. I think George is a budding superstar, and honestly with how the refs coddle Lebron on fouls I think sometimes whenever he misses he is going to get a whistle even if that sounds outrageous. The best player I saw defend Lebron this year was Jeff Green from Boston and Lebron still hate his lunch. I want to see George defend Lebron in Indiana where the crowd will intimidate the refs more than they will in Miami. Indiana has had to keep George off James because of foul trouble. Hill/Stevensen have been guarding Lebron a lot. I agree Indiana has 5 of the top 8 players George, Hibbert, West, Hill, Stevensen vs. Lebron, Bosh, and Wade is hurt, but still good. I just hope Indiana continues taking advantage of its mismatches and is able to win. BTW, the best point anyone has made is your point about Lebron's shooting percentage. Lebron doesn't want to take more shots because he wants to be deemed as the most efficient scorer. He wants to shoot 60-70% and doesn't want to take more shots even though he is his team's best option and Allen/Battier are struggling.

For the record, I think George is a "budding superstar" too. I just don't think he's played himself to superstar status yet.

I'd be surprised and disappointed if he doesn't get there within the next few seasons though. And I hope that he IS doing it right now, as some have claimed. I'd love to see them win it, and him completely break through in the next few weeks.

 

[Knicks411]

I think George may be getting a little too much love right now. He's been really good the last game and a half or so, but I think others have pointed out the flaws as well (42% from the field in the season, etc). I think he is benefiting a bit from recency bias since he's playing so well against the best player on the planet. Not that I don't think he is good, or that he doesn't have the talent to be one of the best players in the league, but to me at least, he is going to need to do it for longer before I put him in that class.

I think he can guard 1 -3 but given the lack of really good power forwards in the game right now I cannot see him guarding a legit 4 like Malone or McHale. The position in today's game has changed a ton.

McHale is one of the best low post technicians in the history of the league, I'm not sure anyone could really guard him. Lebron is basically Malone's size; that's a matchup I would have loved to see.

Definitely right against the shift in the game though. Which makes this series so intriguing. I admit I didn't think Indy was going to play them as well as they have. The 2 games have been awesome and they have both basically been tossups.

I mean, he made a great, clutch play to win game one. He choked down the stretch of game 2, after playing a great game. It is what it is. He's the best in the game, but he can be called out when he deserves it.

, I agree with you. He played an awesome game, and made 2 terrible plays down the stretch that if they didn't cost Miami the game, just about did. I'm glad Lebron won a ring last year because now we can talk about the game and what happened as opposed to trying to analyze whats going on in someone's head. Lebron played an incredible game, he made 2 bad plays in the last minute, Miami lost, it happens. Now we have a series on our hands.

 

[longislandcuse]

im saying that paul george is going to move past durant next season as the true #2.. if not already.. he is better defensively than kd- and stronger..

Bahahaa, since you're undoubtedly basing this statement off of about 4 or 5 games you better hope your boy stops playing the role of Casper and steps up in this 4th quarter.

 

[OrangeDW]

And right on cue, there's that Paul George NyQuil performance.

"Top 3".

"Better than Melo has ever been."

Don't say you weren't warned to calm down and stop jumping the gun!

 

[realorange]

But, but how could this game be? After all, the sports writers said the Pacers had the Heat "rattled" after the last game. I think all they did was to rattle their cage.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

But, but how could this game be? After all, the sports writers said the Pacers had the Heat "rattled" after the last game. I think all they did was to rattle their cage.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--l...mation-of-pacers--paul-george--064630684.html

 

[SoBeCuse]

It's not inconceivable that a Melo or Durant could face a similar outcome as George did. It was a stinker for him but if MIA comes out motivated, focused on D, and sticks LeBron on you it could be curtains for a Melo or Durant if they are playing ISO and the team is playing stop the ball offense. I expect George to play better but to automatically think that other players would fare better in a match where MIA is clicking on all cylinders is a fallacy.

 

[longislandcuse]

It's not inconceivable that a Melo or Durant could face a similar outcome as George did. It was a stinker for him but if MIA comes out motivated, focused on D, and sticks LeBron on you it could be curtains for a Melo or Durant if they are playing ISO and the team is playing stop the ball offense. I expect George to play better but to automatically think that other players would fare better in a match where MIA is clicking on all cylinders is a fallacy.

No it's not because Melo and Durant have proved it. They don't have people blowing them over a handful of games. Melo also historically plays very well against Lebron. It's tough to be a Top 3 player in the NBA when you're the 3rd best player on your team..

However, Paul George's matador defense on Lebron was particularly exciting last night, I must say.

 

[SoBeCuse]

No it's not because Melo and Durant have proved it. They don't have people blowing them over a handful of games. Melo also historically plays very well against Lebron. It's tough to be a Top 3 player in the NBA when you're the 3rd best player on your team..

However, Paul George's matador defense on Lebron was particularly exciting last night, I must say.

I never said he was a Top 3 NBA player. One can argue Hibbert is a better player but who else? Nobody will buy that. Nobody can handle James down there that low either.

 

[OrangeDW]

No it's not because Melo and Durant have proved it. They don't have people blowing them over a handful of games. Melo also historically plays very well against Lebron. It's tough to be a Top 3 player in the NBA when you're the 3rd best player on your team..

However, Paul George's matador defense on Lebron was particularly exciting last night, I must say.

Melo and Durant would not just sleep through the game, floating around the perimeter. They would at least try and would make an impact for better or worse. George with his ungodly athletic ability was just hanging around out there.

That's why George is still a supporting cast player. A very good one. But he's not fully there.

 

[Melancer46]

Melo and Durant would not just sleep through the game, floating around the perimeter. They would at least try and would make an impact for better or worse. George with his ungodly athletic ability was just hanging around out there.

That's why George is still a supporting cast player. A very good one. But he's not fully there.

Melo and Durant are far better scorers than George right now. David West is probably the Pacers "go to guy" offensively, though they don't really have a true go-to guy. But Durant has slept through large portions of games before, and both Durant and Melo sleep through games defensively from time to time.

George isn't better than either of them right now, but regardless, knocking him for not dominating offensively is the equivalent of knocking Melo and Durant for being average at best defenders. Taking over games on the offensive end isn't George's strength, much like defense isn't their's.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Melo and Durant would not just sleep through the game, floating around the perimeter. They would at least try and would make an impact for better or worse. George with his ungodly athletic ability was just hanging around out there.

That's why George is still a supporting cast player. A very good one. But he's not fully there.

Agree with this. I do think that if James really wanted to and tried hard he could take those two out of the game as well. They would settle, float around at times, and jack shots. They all do obviously.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Melo and Durant are far better scorers than George right now. David West is probably the Pacers "go to guy" offensively, though they don't really have a true go-to guy. But Durant has slept through large portions of games before, and both Durant and Melo sleep through games defensively from time to time.

George isn't better than either of them right now, but regardless, knocking him for not dominating offensively is the equivalent of knocking Melo and Durant for being average at best defenders. Taking over games on the offensive end isn't George's strength, much like defense isn't their's.

Agreed as well.

 

[OrangeDW]

Melo and Durant are far better scorers than George right now. David West is probably the Pacers "go to guy" offensively, though they don't really have a true go-to guy. But Durant has slept through large portions of games before, and both Durant and Melo sleep through games defensively from time to time.

George isn't better than either of them right now, but regardless, knocking him for not dominating offensively is the equivalent of knocking Melo and Durant for being average at best defenders. Taking over games on the offensive end isn't George's strength, much like defense isn't their's.

Agreed, which is why he's not a top 3, elite player yet.

 

[Melancer46]

Agreed, which is why he's not a top 3, elite player yet.

That's fair, but not being top 3 doesn't make him just a role player either. He's an all-star level player, and probably the #4 SF in the league at this point.