Three point woes

[Forza Azzurri]

how does a team this inept from three-point range take 22 three-point shots in a game that was neck and neck for the first 37 minutes?

and where's JB in all of this? we've seen him on hundreds of occasions immediately take out a player for making a poor pass or forcing a shot, yet patterson chucks up seven threes -- most of which seemed to come in about a two-minute span in the second half -- and he stays in the game. it's almost as though JB thinks this is a great shooting team that'll eventually shoot themselves out of this slump. how else can you explain the number of threes these guys take every game?

Patterson was left wide open and the three threes he missed down the stretch were in the rhythm of the offense and not forced.

Get used to it. The johnnies took away the inside and Cooney and gave Patterson, KJ, G and BJ any outside shot they wanted.

Until somebody else can show that they can consistently hit an outside shot, expect a heavy dose of this.

 

[orangejunkie]

Cooney is the best 2g on the roster but he is in the 4th season with the team and still not the level of most 2g's we've had in recent years. I thought he would be as good or better than Triche, not seeing it. Heck, Waiters never even started at SU and he would probably score 20 points a game for this team. Cooneyhas potential but arguably, many mid level programs have better 2 guards than SU right now. We really recruited him aggressively, but makes you wonder if we over estimated his talents.

 

[Brooky03]

We need our bigs to recognize double teams and find open shooters. There were two instances last night that I remember seeing Cooney wide open behind Rak and Rak didn't even look at him. C'mon man. If we've seen anything from Cooney, it's that he is money on kick-out 3's and sucks at all other 3's.

 

[two3zone]

We need our bigs to recognize double teams and find open shooters. There were two instances last night that I remember seeing Cooney wide open behind Rak and Rak didn't even look at him. C'mon man. If we've seen anything from Cooney, it's that he is money on kick-out 3's and sucks at all other 3's.

I saw this too, once the ball goes inside it's in there until it's shot. Rak and McCullough need to pass it out.

I saw Cooney open at least 3 times in these situations.

 

[perdurabo]

The bright side is, if you consider the law of large numbers and regression to the mean, we have some smoking games coming up. Maybe Villanova?

 

[conradical]

Patterson was left wide open and the three threes he missed down the stretch were in the rhythm of the offense and not forced.

Get used to it. The johnnies took away the inside and Cooney and gave Patterson, KJ, G and BJ any outside shot they wanted.

Until somebody else can show that they can consistently hit an outside shot, expect a heavy dose of this.

why should we expect a heavy dose of this though? christmas played another great game yesterday, yet he got only eight shots in 40 minutes. patterson had nine in 17 minutes.

for the first time in years syracuse has two big guys who are legitimate offensive threats, but instead of utilizing them everyone's content in shooting three after three after three. one or two inside buckets yesterday might've changed the complexion and outcome of the entire game.

what's going on here makes no sense, and i think it falls on JB. this team looks lost.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

why should we expect a heavy dose of this though? christmas played another great game yesterday, yet he got only eight shots in 40 minutes. patterson had nine in 17 minutes.

for the first time in years syracuse has two big guys who are legitimate offensive threats, but instead of utilizing them everyone's content in shooting three after three after three. one or two inside buckets yesterday might've changed the complexion and outcome of the entire game.

what's going on here makes no sense, and i think it falls on JB. this team looks lost.

Yeah, you're probably right.

Other coaches aren't as smart as Lavin.

Instead of packing the paint, double-teaming Christmas and face guarding Cooney, Duke will probably face guard Buss, double-team BJ and ignore Christmas altogether.

Do you seriously think that what the other team's defense does has zero impact on who gets shots and who doesn't?

St. John's left Patterson wide open and double-teamed Xmas everytime he touched it.

 

[RF2044]

Unfathomable how bad we shoot

It really is.

And to the OP's point, its one thing not to hit at an elite clip--but quite another to be congenitally incapable of hitting three point shots. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect that it would be possible to shoot it worse collectively from three point range than last year's team. Boy, was I wrong.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

contrary to popular belief, cooney has been missing plenty of wide open threes.

The game isn't coming easily to him right now. Even the good looks are an adventure.

 

[Madbiker]

We need to limit the number of 3's we take instead of saying they are open good shots. We don't have guys who can make them. Change the strategy. This team should never take 23 treys in a game.

 

[perdurabo]

We need to limit the number of 3's we take instead of saying they are open good shots. We don't have guys who can make them. Change the strategy. This team should never take 23 treys in a game.

You better make > 60% of your twos if you're not making threes. If you stop shooting threes, they are going to clog the middle. I don't see this team making over 60% in the paint.

 

[Eagles20]

how does a team this inept from three-point range take 22 three-point shots in a game that was neck and neck for the first 37 minutes?

and where's JB in all of this? we've seen him on hundreds of occasions immediately take out a player for making a poor pass or forcing a shot, yet patterson chucks up seven threes -- most of which seemed to come in about a two-minute span in the second half -- and he stays in the game. it's almost as though JB thinks this is a great shooting team that'll eventually shoot themselves out of this slump. how else can you explain the number of threes these guys take every game?

well when the post gets doubles and at times shaded by a 3rd defender that leads to a player forcing...like christmas at the end of the game where he got stripped. Mike did try to drive a few times towards the end and was cut off..can you run through a brick wall? sounds easy on paper to just say why do we shoot so many... maybe we should just pass the ball around and let the shot clock expire on possessions we can't get a shot within 10 feet.

 

[Ghost]

THat just isnt true. This has to be coaching. Cooney sits on 1 side of the court. No screens, no movement. We are voluntarily playing 4 on 5 right now.

Cooney proved he can be a phenomenal shooter over 25+ games.

He shot 4 3's yesteraday. Patterson shot 7 and KJo shot 5. Cooney shot 4.

There can not be another game this season that Cooney doesnt shoot 10. JB needs him to shoot to get his mojo back.

And Cooney can make anyone pay for overplay. He gets to the rack when he wants to.

He gets to the rack when he wants to? At will?

Then why doesn't he want to? This seems like a bit of hyperbole.

 

[CusefanATL]

He gets to the rack when he wants to? At will?

Then why doesn't he want to? This seems like a bit of hyperbole.

hyperbole? what the heck are you you talking about? I think you took it out of context and added words. Actually I know you did.

He doesn't because at this point I have to assume he is doing what the play is designed for him to do. Pull out a lawn chair and sit on the upper side of the court and sip lemonade. He doesnt move without the ball. He doesn't get a single screen. He literally stays within a 5 foot radius for entire possessions. Sometimes he'll switch sides just to stay in another 5 foot radius. He goes game minuteS without touching the ball on the offensive side of the court. If Boeheim wanted him to differently, I would assume Cooney would be in the doghouse. He isn't so I have to assume he is doing what JB wants. Which is very very insane to me. <--- that may be hyperbole, but i stand by it.

He is a better driver than Gerry and Andy, by wide margins. He is actually a threat for 2 point baskets.

Outside of fastbreak layups, Gerry's 2 pointers consisted of backdoor cuts to get a pass from the center at the top of the key for a reverse layup and the occasional 2 point jumper out of a inbounds play. andy's were primarly from the set inbounds play.

 

[TBCuse11]

THat just isnt true. This has to be coaching. Cooney sits on 1 side of the court. No screens, no movement. We are voluntarily playing 4 on 5 right now.

Cooney proved he can be a phenomenal shooter over 25+ games.

He shot 4 3's yesteraday. Patterson shot 7 and KJo shot 5. Cooney shot 4.

There can not be another game this season that Cooney doesnt shoot 10. JB needs him to shoot to get his mojo back.

And Cooney can make anyone pay for overplay. He gets to the rack when he wants to.

he gets to the rack and the ball gets swatted in to the 10th row. I guess people jut see what they want to in regards to Cooney. the opposing sides will never agree, and the truth is probably in the middle. I see a guy who the oppposing team puts ONE defender on, never doubles him, and yes Trevor is never open. I see a guy who runs loops around the court non-stop...

agree to disagree.

 

[TBCuse11]

hyperbole? what the heck are you you talking about? I think you took it out of context and added words. Actually I know you did.

He doesn't because at this point I have to assume he is doing what the play is designed for him to do. Pull out a lawn chair and sit on the upper side of the court and sip lemonade. He doesnt move without the ball. He doesn't get a single screen. He literally stays within a 5 foot radius for entire possessions. Sometimes he'll switch sides just to stay in another 5 foot radius. He goes game minuteS without touching the ball on the offensive side of the court. If Boeheim wanted him to differently, I would assume Cooney would be in the doghouse. He isn't so I have to assume he is doing what JB wants. Which is very very insane to me. <--- that may be hyperbole, but i stand by it.

He is a better driver than Gerry and Andy, by wide margins. He is actually a threat for 2 point baskets.

Outside of fastbreak layups, Gerry's 2 pointers consisted of backdoor cuts to get a pass from the center at the top of the key for a reverse layup and the occasional 2 point jumper out of a inbounds play. andy's were primarly from the set inbounds play.

we are just watching two different games man... Wow.

again, agree to disagree...

 

[Ghost]

hyperbole? what the heck are you you talking about? I think you took it out of context and added words. Actually I know you did.

He doesn't because at this point I have to assume he is doing what the play is designed for him to do. Pull out a lawn chair and sit on the upper side of the court and sip lemonade. He doesnt move without the ball. He doesn't get a single screen. He literally stays within a 5 foot radius for entire possessions. Sometimes he'll switch sides just to stay in another 5 foot radius. He goes game minuteS without touching the ball on the offensive side of the court. If Boeheim wanted him to differently, I would assume Cooney would be in the doghouse. He isn't so I have to assume he is doing what JB wants. Which is very very insane to me. <--- that may be hyperbole, but i stand by it.

He is a better driver than Gerry and Andy, by wide margins. He is actually a threat for 2 point baskets.

Outside of fastbreak layups, Gerry's 2 pointers consisted of backdoor cuts to get a pass from the center at the top of the key for a reverse layup and the occasional 2 point jumper out of a inbounds play. andy's were primarly from the set inbounds play.

Out of context? You said he can make anyone pay on the overplay, and can take it to the rack when he wants. I consider that an exaggeration (not hyperbole).

I'm sorry if it seems like a misquote - I added "at will" more as a question. Because it seems insane to me to say he can take anyone off the dribble. No harm intended though! Just disagreeing.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Cooney can drive to the hoop occasionally. Any player who plays college basketball can do that. It comes down to how often it happens and how effective it is. In those terms, both are rare. But, we need it, even if it is occasionally. We need transition baskets. That is a big issue right now. We need Cooney and Kaleb, whoever is up there, to force turnovers. Out best opportunity to score is when the defense can't get back because then we have to run an offensive set (do we have these?), this also allows for Cooney to trail the play and step into his shots. I think we need more of this. Our best chance for Cooney, or anyone, to get looks is through transition and kick outs from the post. Running off screens repeatedly is bad offense because catching the ball on the move while not facing the hoop leads to poor form. Andy was good at this because he squared his body. Cooney tends to fade and rush his shot. He needs to catch the ball while facing the hoop already, which is going to have to happen off of kickouts from our bigs. There's nothing wrong with running him off screens, but do it while the ball is downlow, again, so he can catch and already be facing the hoop.

It's painful to watch our offense. It's worse than last year, which seemed impossible at the time.

Can you imagine what Kentucky would do to us? I'd be shocked if we scored 40 points.

As has been the case all year, we need to keep finding ways to get Chris and Rak 25+ shots a game. In order to do that, SOMEONE needs to make a shot outside of the paint. This is division 1 basketball. Time to step up, boys!

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It really is.

And to the OP's point, its one thing not to hit at an elite clip--but quite another to be congenitally incapable of hitting three point shots. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect that it would be possible to shoot it worse collectively from three point range than last year's team. Boy, was I wrong.

What do you think is the root cause here? I saw someone mention a week or so ago that practicing in the Melo Center might be the problem. I'd love to see the stats on our team shooting at home versus on the road. Visual perspective is a huge thing to a shooter, and maybe we need to have our guys shooting more at the dome with those ridiculous open sight lines.

Or are we just not that good as shooters in a game situation?

 

[CusefanATL]

I guess people jut see what they want to in regards to Cooney. the opposing sides will never agree, and the truth is probably in the middle.

I definitely think the people overly criticizing Cooney are way off... but I am by no means calling him great. I think he could be remembered in the same way Rautins is at the end of his career. That is his ceiling to me. Which is decent, but nothing like Gerry's career.

I honestly believe I've got the truth.

Its time to let cooney be Cooney. He should be shooting 8-10 3's a game. The other teams are always going to have to respect it. And that will open everything up. 4 3pt attempts is just a travesty.

 

[TBCuse11]

I definitely think the people overly criticizing Cooney are way off... but I am by no means calling him great. I think he could be remembered in the same way Rautins is at the end of his career. That is his ceiling to me. Which is decent, but nothing like Gerry's career.

I honestly believe I've got the truth.

Its time to let cooney be Cooney. He should be shooting 8-10 3's a game. The other teams are always going to have to respect it. And that will open everything up. 4 3pt attempts is just a travesty.

but if he shoots 8, he will make 2 or 1 most games.. thats what stats show us. I refuse to accept that is what we are this year. Yeah, we might upset Virginia or Duke if he goes off for 9 threes, but we will also lose to BC, Wake, La Tech, etc... the games he shoots how he has been.

if you arent part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Period. Trevor has not been the solution this year AT ALL.

 

[CusefanATL]

but if he shoots 8, he will make 2 or 1 most games.. thats what stats show us. I refuse to accept that is what we are this year. Yeah, we might upset Virginia or Duke if he goes off for 9 threes, but we will also lose to BC, Wake, La Tech, etc... the games he shoots how he has been.

if you arent part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Period. Trevor has not been the solution this year AT ALL.

fair enough, i respect your opinion. But completely disagree with you.

Cooney has absolutely proven he can do it. He needs to get out of his funk.

 

[TBCuse11]

fair enough, i respect your opinion. But completely disagree with you.

Cooney has absolutely proven he can do it. He needs to get out of his funk.

he proved it about 25 games ago. and has now proven for the lat 25 that he cant do it anymore.
i hope u are right, trust me. boy do i ever. but the definition of insanity...

 

[perdurabo]

The definition of insanity is panicking 25% of the way through the season.

 

[CaptainJ]

View attachment 31280

My eyes did not deceive me. That indeed is Tattoo from Fantasy Island getting all gangster!