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Thunder and Lightning

General20

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When you think about the center position next year its hard not to come to the conclusion that Syracuse is going to have a lot of answers.

Keita proved at the end of last season that he is, in his own right, a good center who can handle major minutes against all types of opponents. Something I never thought he could be.

Keita has always had a great motor and great speed for a big guy. As he has come to understand the zone, he has learned to put that speed to excellent use on the defensive end. In the past Syracuse has struggled to guard teams that can play five-out (either without a true big man or with a big man who can shoot) because Syracuse has not had centers comfortable (and quick enough) to guard anybody outside.

Keita on the other hand is more than willing to get outside quick and guard somebody which makes it extremely difficult to to play five-out against Syracuse's zone, or even just overload one side.

This attribute alone has been huge for Syracuse, but Keita has also improved his offensive game one hundred fold and proven he can bang one on one with some of the better centers out there (the one thing I thought he could never do). So now we have a complete center whose specialty is getting out and covering space.

If you were able to match anybody up with this kind of a player who would it be?

Probably a big bruising center whose best attribute is scoring.

Keita has proven he can bang down low, but its never going to be the thing he's best at. Neither is scoring. But those could (and I think will) be the exact attributes that DaJuan Coleman excels at.

I know some were less than impressed with his play as a freshman, but I'm not one of those people. In my entire time watching Syracuse (about 27 years), they have never had a freshman center who was good. Think about it.

Coleman showed all the flashes of greatness I need to see. I think he is going to be a very productive player as a sophomore, both scoring the ball and battling for position inside. The exact attributes you'd want to compliment Keita.

Syracuse should have the luxury of playing both big minutes and letting the opponent dictate who gets more minutes. If Syracuse needs extra muscle we will see DaJuan. If they need extra speed it will be Baye. That is why in my head I have already taken to calling the duo Thunder and Lightning. Seems applicable to me.

My guess is Hopkins is going to get a lot more kudos as a big man coach than he did this year, and the talk of Syracuse needing to hire one is going to die out.

This could be one of the better pairing of skill sets we have ever seen at Syracuse, and it got me thinking. If you could pair up any two players throughout history, who would you pick?

I personally, would start with Douglas and Warrick. The best alley-oop thrower of all time (for those too young, the guy made driving and ooping, rather than driving and dishing, an art form) paired up with the longest, highest leaper Syracuse has ever had.

Another fun one is MCW and Rautins. This has been talked about before, but good luck scoring against a team with that kind of length and quick hands out at the top of the zone.

The final one I will throw out there is Jeremy McNeil and James Theus. This might seem like a weird one because those are two role players at best, but they both excelled at the same thing. The press. McNeil was the best I have seen at guarding the basket once the press is broken, and Theus is the best we have had at getting steals at the front of the press. Pair those two guys with just about any three other guys and you have a devastating press on your hands.

Anybody have any others?
 
The final one I will throw out there is Jeremy McNeil and James Theus. This might seem like a weird one because those are two role players at best, but they both excelled at the same thing. The press. McNeil was the best I have seen at guarding the basket once the press is broken, and Theus is the best we have had at getting steals at the front of the press. Pair those two guys with just about any three other guys and you have a devastating press on your hands.

I literally don't have 1 thought about James Theus. Not 1 iota of a thought. I can't believe he excelled at anything sports related here.
 
Nice analysis and nickname for what appears to be our future center duo since everyone seems to be resigning to the rumors that Rak is gone. I'm definitely excited to see how Coleman progresses in his sophomore year, but I'm almost hoping that he doesn't explode enough to jump to the NBA after next season. I really want to see him dominate inside as a junior with McCullough and (hopefully) Ennis on the floor too.
 
Nice analysis and nickname for what appears to be our future center duo since everyone seems to be resigning to the rumors that Rak is gone..

WHAT?! I thought there was absolutely no validity to that?

I haven't heard a single mention of that since the day after the championship game.

I was under the impression that the rumor was put to rest. Maybe I was mistaken? Maybe all of the posts are being deleted on here?
 
I literally don't have 1 thought about James Theus. Not 1 iota of a thought. I can't believe he excelled at anything sports related here.


I really dont know how many steals he averaged, but I bet if you were not too lazy to go look it up (which I am) you'd see he got a lot of steals here.

Offensively he was not good and he was too small to play the zone right, but he was a better option than Warrick as a freshman who was the starter.
 
WHAT?! I thought there was absolutely no validity to that?

I haven't heard a single mention of that since the day after the championship game.

I was under the impression that the rumor was put to rest. Maybe I was mistaken? Maybe all of the posts are being deleted on here?

For the record. I am not making any assumptions about Rak leaving. I hope he stays and will assume so until otherwise. I just dont think he is going to be our first option.

Still, I am not a fan at all of talking about current payer leaving - pushing them out the door if you will - unless its obvious they are going to be a top draft pick.
 
I know some were less than impressed with his play as a freshman, but I'm not one of those people. In my entire time watching Syracuse (about 27 years), they have never had a freshman center who was good. Think about it.

I attribute part of that to the fact that we've never had big men that are protected by the refs early in their career. I watch other teams highly rated frosh centers get away with a decent amount of contact while our bigs generally get whistled for fouls quickly until year 2 or 3 when they've established a name for themselves.
 
We've got some 40 points a game to replace. Needs to come from somewhere. I'm thinking Coleman gives us about a dozen. Keita... no idea. Maybe 6 a game?
 
We've got some 40 points a game to replace. Needs to come from somewhere. I'm thinking Coleman gives us about a dozen. Keita... no idea. Maybe 6 a game?


I'd love 18 a game from the center spot
 
I'd love 18 a game from the center spot
Yeah, that feels high. I expect us to be an interior oriented team next season though.
 
Yeah, that feels high. I expect us to be an interior oriented team next season though.
Does feel high. If we get 12 and 8-10 out of the center spot, I'll be happy.
 
When you think about the center position next year its hard not to come to the conclusion that Syracuse is going to have a lot of answers.

I know some were less than impressed with his play as a freshman, but I'm not one of those people. In my entire time watching Syracuse (about 27 years), they have never had a freshman center who was good. Think about it.

Coleman showed all the flashes of greatness I need to see. I think he is going to be a very productive player as a sophomore, both scoring the ball and battling for position inside. The exact attributes you'd want to compliment Keita.
s?


Good post, I agree. I think people that are down on DC haven't followed SU hoops, or college ball in general. Big guys take a lot of time. A coach extremely familiar with DC's current situation thinks that 1 in 30 big men are truly ready from day 1. The other 29 take time because of how different it is from hs, unlike 1-4's. All one has to do is watch him throw an outlet, or catch it on the post, to see he has a great skill set. Once he understands positioning his feet, using his frame to carve space and keeping the ball up, he's a 20 point scorer. That will come. He needs to get in better shape to get the ball a bit quicker for rebounding and if/when he does that, he goes from 5-6 boards a game guy to 11 boards a game. He also needs the improvement to be quicker on D and needs the mental improvement for zone (which comes with age and practice).

My only concern for him is how long it takes for this stuff to come, not if it will come...
 
I am also excited about DC2 I think we will see big improvements and he really has a chance to be a dominating force by seasons end. Everything is there already, just needs time and some fine tuning IMO.
 
Does feel high. If we get 12 and 8-10 out of the center spot, I'll be happy.
Yeah, we're going to need points to come from somewhere. Ennis, Gbinije, Grant, Cooney and Coleman should all put more points on the board (Rak too assuming he sticks around), just a question of how many more.
 
I got to be honest...I saw this thread title and first thing I fought was Garth Brooks - The Thunder Rolls.
 
Yeah, we're going to need points to come from somewhere. Ennis, Gbinije, Grant, Cooney and Coleman should all put more points on the board (Rak too assuming he sticks around), just a question of how many more.

Fun thread, and I agree that the Coleman/Keita combination could give us depth, energy and (long-awaited) inside offense next year.

While we're on the front line, I'm cautiously hoping CJ and Rak come back. I've heard all the rumors, but it's a fact that Rak has unfinished business at SU -- we've all seen him flash his athleticism. It's time for a few more points and a lot more consistency. And next to the 'thunder and lightening' ... having CJ and Grant bookending DC2/Keita/Rak could be doom and gloom for opposing teams. This would be one of the deepest, most talented front lines we've had in years.

In the backcourt, I think Tyler and Gbinije will be able to drive the ball. The question is -- who will be the outside threat? Having a sharpshooter would spread defenses out for our inside guys and restore the balance we've been lacking since 2010. The most likely candidates are: TC (renewed confidence?); Gbinije (he's athletic and can drive, but can he stroke it?); BJ? (some predict RS, others feel he's ready to contribute with a balanced game and smooth outisde jumper); or even CJ (emerging threat from outside and, if he comes back, could roam farther out with DC2/Rak and Grant anchoring the paint).

We have all summer to sort this out .. one important piece of this puzzle will be revealed tomorrow.
 
I expect that CJ doubles his three point shots next season, and while his percentage drops he still manages to make 2 a game or so, certainly enough to keep them honest on defense. His penetration will be even further augmented by his mid and long range shooting.

Most importantly, he is going to become a post monster against any team that tries to guard him with a small forward. He showed some of that game this year, but with Triche and MCW needing driving lanes, and with Southerland as a valuable outside shooter, he didn't get to post as often as he could have. Next year, every game is going to be like Michigan... They will try to guard him big and he will go around his defender, when they go small, he will post them up. Considering he is the only returning player who is a consistent scorer, it wouldn't surprise me if he was one of the very few Orange to average 20. Partially because I think he is that good, partially because the pace of the ACC is going to be that much faster, and partially because he is going to be our go to scorer until another player proves his worth.

CJ Fair is going to be an incredible scoring threat next year, and proved he can be a tremendous defender this year.

I don't think he has the personality to be the team leader, and I am not sure who on the team does have that personality among our upperclassmen. Fair, Keita, and Christmas all have their leadership problems. Fair and Keita just seem too reserved, Christmas has motor issues. We may need to rely on a newcomer to bring leadership, or a freshman stepping into the role as he grows into a sophomore. Gbinije, Coleman, Ennis, Grant and Cooney all are relative unknowns in their leadership qualities. Something will come together and we will have a great team next year. I just hope that Fair sticks around to be the best player on the team.
 
I expect that CJ doubles his three point shots next season, and while his percentage drops he still manages to make 2 a game or so, certainly enough to keep them honest on defense. His penetration will be even further augmented by his mid and long range shooting.

Most importantly, he is going to become a post monster against any team that tries to guard him with a small forward. He showed some of that game this year, but with Triche and MCW needing driving lanes, and with Southerland as a valuable outside shooter, he didn't get to post as often as he could have. Next year, every game is going to be like Michigan... They will try to guard him big and he will go around his defender, when they go small, he will post them up. Considering he is the only returning player who is a consistent scorer, it wouldn't surprise me if he was one of the very few Orange to average 20. Partially because I think he is that good, partially because the pace of the ACC is going to be that much faster, and partially because he is going to be our go to scorer until another player proves his worth.

CJ Fair is going to be an incredible scoring threat next year, and proved he can be a tremendous defender this year.

I don't think he has the personality to be the team leader, and I am not sure who on the team does have that personality among our upperclassmen. Fair, Keita, and Christmas all have their leadership problems. Fair and Keita just seem too reserved, Christmas has motor issues. We may need to rely on a newcomer to bring leadership, or a freshman stepping into the role as he grows into a sophomore. Gbinije, Coleman, Ennis, Grant and Cooney all are relative unknowns in their leadership qualities. Something will come together and we will have a great team next year. I just hope that Fair sticks around to be the best player on the team.

It's Keita's team.

I don't agree with the idea that Coleman has shown flashes of greatness (or is anything but a four-year player), that any Syracuse big will average 20 points or 11 rebounds in the near future, or a handful of other things in the thread, but leadership is - after a season that was rocky at times - as set as it's ever been.

Baye's the leader and we'll be a better team for it.
 
It's funny, McGary from Michigan is exactly what I thought we were getting with DC. I hope he can get there. What I saw was that he was just too nervous and he was panicking with the ball. That should be very easy to overcome now that he has a year under his belt. I'm expecting him to be much better offensively. But his biggest problems were on defense where he was not even remotely credible. That, too, should improve just from the year of experience and practice. I'll bet he has some incrementally better offensive numbers next year but improved defense will allow him to stay out there more minutes and so his rebounds should go up by quite a bit.
 
It's Keita's team.

I don't agree with the idea that Coleman has shown flashes of greatness (or is anything but a four-year player), that any Syracuse big will average 20 points or 11 rebounds in the near future, or a handful of other things in the thread, but leadership is - after a season that was rocky at times - as set as it's ever been.

Baye's the leader and we'll be a better team for it.
Baye made great strides in improvement on both sides of the court...but he's not a leader, nor would I want him to be.
 
Baye made great strides in improvement on both sides of the court...but he's not a leader, nor would I want him to be.

Don't know what to tell you (other than "you're mistaken about this"). He's the leader. And his teammates and coaches want him to be.

(And why anyone would or wouldn't want a kid to be a leader is somewhat puzzling.)
 
Don't know what to tell you (other than "you're mistaken about this"). He's the leader. And his teammates and coaches want him to be.

(And why anyone would or wouldn't want a kid to be a leader is somewhat puzzling.)

He may be a leader off the court and by example. I'm talking in terms of work ethic, improvement and striving for higher goals. There's no doubt this kid has improved throughout his created and worked himself into an essential niche role for this Syracuse team. However, he still makes some boneheaded, innocent but boneheaded, mistakes and doesn't have the basketball IQ to be a team leader. Maybe he's an emotional leader, I'd be fine with that.
 
He may be a leader off the court and by example. I'm talking in terms of work ethic, improvement and striving for higher goals. There's no doubt this kid has improved throughout his created and worked himself into an essential niche role for this Syracuse team. However, he still makes some boneheaded, innocent but boneheaded, mistakes and doesn't have the basketball IQ to be a team leader. Maybe he's an emotional leader, I'd be fine with that.

Unorthodox to have a reserve as the leader, I know.

Beyond that, all team leaders make boneheaded mistakes (you should be thankful you missed the hundreds of posts about Scoop for two-plus years). Baye's different than your typical guard, for sure. But on all those criteria you listed (work ethic, striving, etc.), he's the guy. It's going to work out well; very different from the bulk of this past season.
 

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