To Quote Dalton from Roadhouse

[orangecuse]

A few thoughts on all this excellent content.

1. Brian Ward - He has had up and downs. We’re never going to be a dominating D, and that’s ok. We just need to hold up, tighten up in red zone, be opportunistic. But it’s hard not to notice that in 4 years we’ve broken 3 ALL TIME records for futility here. Rushing yardage (yesterday), Total yardage (Louisville), Total points allowed (Pitt). I get that we have holes, but we shouldn’t be re-writing the record book of shame.

2. Transfer portal - So it sounds good in theory, but how much of a quick fix is it? Won‘t anyone we get have to sit out a year unless someone wants to stuff the NCAA’s pockets like Ohio State did to get Fields immediately eligible? Guessing we don’t have that cache. We can look for grad transfers of course, but have to pick better, can’t bring someone in for the sake of adding a human (see Alexander, Ryan).

3. This may be unfair, but yesterday it really looked like some players had checked out. It was as if they heard all week about how physical this game would be and they just weren’t up for it. I‘m the casual fan that never notices this stuff during a game, I just watch where the football is. But watching the replay, and watching plays over and over, focusing in different players, it’s eye opening. There are plenty of examples where it’s obvious guys weren’t giving 100%. How do you solve that one? Just by offseason refocus?

Do you think it’s realistic we can bring in impact players for next year?

In regards to point 1; not a coincidence with Ward at the helm there...flat out disgraceful & embarrassing.

Point 2; I think the casual fan could even notice the lack of effort in various plays, it was that obvious. No doubt, re-watching it, focusing on certain players, etc., the issue stands out even more like a sore thumb. That's why Dino's comments in his post game presser about him stating; "that the effort was still there in the 2nd half even though the score doesn't say so" is so troubling to me. If he truly believed that (in the moment) and was being 100% transparent, well, he's going to be in a world of pain when he breaks down that tape. His guys quit.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

A few thoughts on all this excellent content.

1. Brian Ward - He has had up and downs. We’re never going to be a dominating D, and that’s ok. We just need to hold up, tighten up in red zone, be opportunistic. But it’s hard not to notice that in 4 years we’ve broken 3 ALL TIME records for futility here. Rushing yardage (yesterday), Total yardage (Louisville), Total points allowed (Pitt). I get that we have holes, but we shouldn’t be re-writing the record book of shame.

2. Transfer portal - So it sounds good in theory, but how much of a quick fix is it? Won‘t anyone we get have to sit out a year unless someone wants to stuff the NCAA’s pockets like Ohio State did to get Fields immediately eligible? Guessing we don’t have that cache. We can look for grad transfers of course, but have to pick better, can’t bring someone in for the sake of adding a human (see Alexander, Ryan).

3. This may be unfair, but yesterday it really looked like some players had checked out. It was as if they heard all week about how physical this game would be and they just weren’t up for it. I‘m the casual fan that never notices this stuff during a game, I just watch where the football is. But watching the replay, and watching plays over and over, focusing in different players, it’s eye opening. There are plenty of examples where it’s obvious guys weren’t giving 100%. How do you solve that one? Just by offseason refocus?

Do you think it’s realistic we can bring in impact players for next year?

On Ward we haven’t been good in conference games in regards to yards per play:

2019 14th in ACC
2018 6th
2017 14th
2016 14th

Is that really worth keeping?

Under Bullough we were:

2015 14th
2014 3rd
2013 8th

Interesting that under Shafer we were the best his first two seasons and poor his last two seasons in conference as DC.

As for TOs gained and sacks we have been up and down under Ward:

TOs
2019 tied for 12th
2018 1st
2017 14th
2016 tied for 2nd

Sacks
2019 13th
2018 tied for 2nd
2017 tied for 13th or last
2016 14th

On 3rd down we have been:

2019 11th
2018 3rd
2017 4th
2016 12th

So that too is all over the place.

Redzone TD%
2019 12th
2018 5th
2017 13th
2016 12th

So we have been a bad D across the board in conference 3 out of 4 years. That can’t happen. All we need is consistently Top 10 and we will be fine. That isn’t asking much.

 

[Townie72]

On DeVito.

I'm not anywhere as near sold as is Jersey Orange (Who knows more about football than I'll ever know)

Without question TD has a great arm and throws a beautiful ball.

I beleive he has learned a lot this year. He has eliminated the Intentional Grounding errors and the Interceptions and appears to less frequently throw the ball where the receiver can't catch it.

So what's missing? It has to do with the innate ability that some QBS have to know where they are on the field and what they should do in any circumstance. I saw this problem three times yesterday starting with going beyond the line of scrimmage and throwing the ball. I know the refs said he wasn't across the line of scrimmage, but on my TV he was. (I think this was one of those "no indisputable evidence things) Then there was attempting to reach six feet for the first down with the ball in his hand resulting in a fumble.

I don't see other QBs doing this. Although to be fair, he might be under more pressure than they are. But it remains a question in my mind.

 

[Chip]

On DeVito.

I'm not anywhere as near sold as is Jersey Orange (Who knows more about football than I'll ever know)

Without question TD has a great arm and throws a beautiful ball.

I beleive he has learned a lot this year. He has eliminated the Intentional Grounding errors and the Interceptions and appears to less frequently throw the ball where the receiver can't catch it.

So what's missing? It has to do with the innate ability that some QBS have to know where they are on the field and what they should do in any circumstance. I saw this problem three times yesterday starting with going beyond the line of scrimmage and throwing the ball. I know the refs said he wasn't across the line of scrimmage, but on my TV he was. (I think this was one of those "no indisputable evidence things) Then there was attempting to reach six feet for the first down with the ball in his hand resulting in a fumble.

I don't see other QBs doing this. Although to be fair, he might be under more pressure than they are. But it remains a question in my mind.

With better awareness, he could be that mobile QB that teams have to account for. You can see it when he does take off and has room, he’s plenty fast. But that innate ability to avoid the rush and find the running lane, I just don’t see it. Dungey had it. A couple of sacks yesterday, DeVito tried to make a move and ran right into it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

On DeVito.

I'm not anywhere as near sold as is Jersey Orange (Who knows more about football than I'll ever know)

Without question TD has a great arm and throws a beautiful ball.

I beleive he has learned a lot this year. He has eliminated the Intentional Grounding errors and the Interceptions and appears to less frequently throw the ball where the receiver can't catch it.

So what's missing? It has to do with the innate ability that some QBS have to know where they are on the field and what they should do in any circumstance. I saw this problem three times yesterday starting with going beyond the line of scrimmage and throwing the ball. I know the refs said he wasn't across the line of scrimmage, but on my TV he was. (I think this was one of those "no indisputable evidence things) Then there was attempting to reach six feet for the first down with the ball in his hand resulting in a fumble.

I don't see other QBs doing this. Although to be fair, he might be under more pressure than they are. But it remains a question in my mind.

See, the going past the line thing is interesting to me, because that's exactly the kind of play and creativity I think a lot of people are saying he doesn't have, and he made that play, and now you're saying it's showcasing his lack of awareness.

I mean... who's right? Everyone? Nobody?

 

[tbonezone]

Brutal honesty is what we need, no matter how painful it is.

A great, but somber post.

dancing time is over . time to get dirty.

(original roadhouse movie tag line)

 

[SWC75]

What you say makes a ton of sense. What do you see in Dino that makes you feel that Dino is the guy to get this done?

I have 0% of your football knowledge. I don't see anything in Dino's background that says he can make and execute the changes you have layed out. I love Dino's charisma and he's obviously a very intelligent man. Those are two great traits that don't mean he'll be a great head coach.

I havent seen anything in his history that indicates he's a builder. I've seen him do well with other people's stuff, but those are two different skills.

Eastern Illinois Game by Game Results

web.archive.org

 

[Cusefan69]

Some weaknesses, sure, but to this extent? I question that "most that follow Cuse" (at least here) did their homework then. Proven by the pre-season (What SU's record/number of wins) thread would be...

Yeah I hear ya...I'm not talking everything, just lines...I know those and linebacker where my going in concerns.

 

[orlandoorange]

Eastern Illinois Game by Game Results

web.archive.org

Eastern Illinois Game by Game Results

web.archive.org

Right, but its not like they were a wasteland prior to his arrival- they won their conference championship 5 or 6 times in the early 2000s and Garapolo was a jr when DB took over.

 

[690West]

You know, for that line of work I thought you'd be bigger.

 

[SWC75]

Right, but its not like they were a wasteland prior to his arrival- they won their conference championship 5 or 6 times in the early 2000s and Garapolo was a jr when DB took over.

If they were 2-9 for two straight years before he came, then 7-5, then 12-2, then he's a builder. What do the "early 2000's" have to do with it when he was coach there in 2012-13?

 

[orlandoorange]

If they were 2-9 for two straight years before he came, then 7-5, then 12-2, then he's a builder. What do the "early 2000's" have to do with it when he was coach there in 2012-13?

They won the conf championship in 2009. Spoo recruited DBs stud quarterback. I think if SU won a conf championship in 2009 and them had a "drought" of 3 years we'd be good with that, seems more like new paint than ripping things down to the studs.

Dino is about to win 1 more game than Spoo did in his final year.

 

[Scooch]

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

Too much to read. I'll just assume it was a very positive post. Go orange!

 

[SWC75]

They won the conf championship in 2009. Spoo recruited DBs stud quarterback. I think if SU won a conf championship in 2009 and them had a "drought" of 3 years we'd be good with that, seems more like new paint than ripping things down to the studs.

Dino is about to win 1 more game than Spoo did in his final year.

2-9, 2-9, 7-5, 12-2 is more than the elephants growing up.

 

[FrancoPizza]

JO this was fantastic and much appreciated. I just have one question: was this posted before the season began and we were too busy slathering on the kool aid lube to notice?

 

[TexanMark]

Excellent post. I do believe the staff knew that the lack of depth from the 2018 squad was going to be a big problem. Dino kept harping on depth.

The signs were there but we didn't want to see them After Liberty we should have known the oline was as bad as our worst fears and after Maryland the same for the dline and backers.

Recruiting has improved but still has a long way to go.

At this level rebuilding years are 2-10, 3-9 and 4-8. Oscar Gamble.

The Liberty win was fools gold...they had a brand new coach coaching upstairs from a friggin hospital bed. Liberty today very likely could beat us.

 

[tep624]

We have to cross our fingers that there will be some gems in the Portal this offseason. Last year was particularly weak. You know it’s going to be hit or miss when the top couple of guys are coming out of the Sun Belt or MAC.

The staff had the misfortune of losing 3 SR’s to graduation and also effectively losing both the OT recruits from the 2016 class who would have been natural successors at this point, with O’Sullivan’s injury DQ and Clark just not making the 2 deep. All that during a weak portal year.

 

[orlandoorange]

2-9, 2-9, 7-5, 12-2 is more than the elephants growing up.

We'll agree on that. It's quite possible Spoo was tired in his last couple of years of coaching. The guy was in his 70s and had just taken a year off from surgery. Maybe their tuba count was down those 2 years. I don't know.

DB inherited a QB who plays on Sundays. Tony Romo played for Spoo as well. I just don't think their program was in dire shape, the 2-9 seasons were much more blips than the norm.

Regardless, for our situation, time is the only thing that will give us the answers about DB. I hope that you are right, I just have doubts.

 

[florange44]

The staff had the misfortune of losing 3 SR’s to graduation and also effectively losing both the OT recruits from the 2016 class who would have been natural successors at this point, with O’Sullivan’s injury DQ and Clark just not making the 2 deep. All that during a weak portal year.
[/QUOTE]

Add to that perfect storm, Heckel’s injury and Deurig injury which combined to cause Servais to play center and you can see why we struggled at OT this year.
The only solution I see is grad transfer center and OT.

Florange44

 

[Townie72]

See, the going past the line thing is interesting to me, because that's exactly the kind of play and creativity I think a lot of people are saying he doesn't have, and he made that play, and now you're saying it's showcasing his lack of awareness.

I mean... who's right? Everyone? Nobody?

Well, I guess you could say it was “creative”. But my concern is only about “awareness” and instincts.

The play reminded me of my sandlot, touch football experience as a kid. Playing with just a couple of guys on each side, there was plenty of “creativity” and lots of QB runs. But even then there were two things EVERYBODY knew. First, was that you couldn’t throw two forward passes on the same play. Second was that you couldn’t go beyond the line of scrimmage and then pass the ball. These rules aren’t some obscure technicalities. They are fundamental to the sport. In these games in which there were plenty of “I tagged you” and “No you didn’t.” arguments, no bo day bothered to argue these rules.

It’s sort of like knowing you cannot pick up your dribble and restart it.

I harken back to the several intentional grounding calls. On the second one I can remember thinking, “How can he not know? Does he not understand the rules? Does he panic and forget.? Has he been told to avoid a sack under any circumstances.

Each one of these by themselves aren’t cardinal sins. And they could be just part of the learning process. But they seem to be part of a pattern of questionable fundamental football instincts.If you are on the sidelines three yards away from a first down and there is a defensive player between you and the marker, what would cause you to try and reach across him with the ball in one hand?

I like the kid. Of course, I fundamentally like all SU players as being “the good guys” I hope he has tremendous success here and afterwards. I could be completely F.O. S. on this. I also believe that Dino is as close to being completely committed to TD as he can be. Partially due to the lack of better alternatives.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, I guess you could say it was “creative”. But my concern is only about “awareness” and instincts.

The play reminded me of my sandlot, touch football experience as a kid. Playing with just a couple of guys on each side, there was plenty of “creativity” and lots of QB runs. But even then there were two things EVERYBODY knew. First, was that you couldn’t throw two forward passes on the same play. Second was that you couldn’t go beyond the line of scrimmage and then pass the ball. These rules aren’t some obscure technicalities. They are fundamental to the sport. In these games in which there were plenty of “I tagged you” and “No you didn’t.” arguments, no bo day bothered to argue these rules.

It’s sort of like knowing you cannot pick up your dribble and restart it.

I harken back to the several intentional grounding calls. On the second one I can remember thinking, “How can he not know? Does he not understand the rules? Does he panic and forget.? Has he been told to avoid a sack under any circumstances.

Each one of these by themselves aren’t cardinal sins. And they could be just part of the learning process. But they seem to be part of a pattern of questionable fundamental football instincts.If you are on the sidelines three yards away from a first down and there is a defensive player between you and the marker, what would cause you to try and reach across him with the ball in one hand?

I like the kid. Of course, I fundamentally like all SU players as being “the good guys” I hope he has tremendous success here and afterwards. I could be completely F.O. S. on this. I also believe that Dino is as close to being completely committed to TD as he can be. Partially due to the lack of better alternatives.

McNabb got called for crossing the line and throwing a pass after dropping back several times.

 

[Townie72]

McNabb got called for crossing the line and throwing a pass after dropping back several times.

What part of “part of a pattern” didn’t you understand?

When I was about to post that, I hesitated, wondering if this might be too nuanced an observation for this forum.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Well, I guess you could say it was “creative”. But my concern is only about “awareness” and instincts.

The play reminded me of my sandlot, touch football experience as a kid. Playing with just a couple of guys on each side, there was plenty of “creativity” and lots of QB runs. But even then there were two things EVERYBODY knew. First, was that you couldn’t throw two forward passes on the same play. Second was that you couldn’t go beyond the line of scrimmage and then pass the ball. These rules aren’t some obscure technicalities. They are fundamental to the sport. In these games in which there were plenty of “I tagged you” and “No you didn’t.” arguments, no bo day bothered to argue these rules.

It’s sort of like knowing you cannot pick up your dribble and restart it.

I harken back to the several intentional grounding calls. On the second one I can remember thinking, “How can he not know? Does he not understand the rules? Does he panic and forget.? Has he been told to avoid a sack under any circumstances.

Each one of these by themselves aren’t cardinal sins. And they could be just part of the learning process. But they seem to be part of a pattern of questionable fundamental football instincts.If you are on the sidelines three yards away from a first down and there is a defensive player between you and the marker, what would cause you to try and reach across him with the ball in one hand?

I like the kid. Of course, I fundamentally like all SU players as being “the good guys” I hope he has tremendous success here and afterwards. I could be completely F.O. S. on this. I also believe that Dino is as close to being completely committed to TD as he can be. Partially due to the lack of better alternatives.

I think many tend to agree with this, unfortunately. Instincts can't be taught. If we ever cobble together a serviceable line, the offense will be orders of magnitude better. But TD's inability to extend plays and drives with common sense really is going to be an anchor weighing things down.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What part of “part of a pattern” didn’t you understand?

When I was about to post that, I hesitated, wondering if this might be too nuanced an observation for this forum.

Don't pull that crap on me.