turmoil at Duke

[upperdeck]

I post this here because there is more traffic, but its not really a bball story.. Heard a short conversation today with a Prof who just left Duke. Seems Duke has gone all in on sports. the are spending all money on sports related infrastructure and a large part of the campus community is not happy about it. I was told profs all over campus are looking to get out as they have no support and the research Profs cant get stuff done. They said the campus is crumbling and the best Profs who have choices are leaving but once they leave Duke is not playing nice and not releasing the research dollars so projects are in limbo all over. A lot of in fighting amongst the power players who support the campus between sports and education initiatives.. I am told its getting pretty ugly.

 

[bballbeadle]

I post this here because there is more traffic, but its not really a bball story.. Heard a short conversation today with a Prof who just left Duke. Seems Duke has gone all in on sports. the are spending all money on sports related infrastructure and a large part of the campus community is not happy about it. I was told profs all over campus are looking to get out as they have no support and the research Profs cant get stuff done. They said the campus is crumbling and the best Profs who have choices are leaving but once they leave Duke is not playing nice and not releasing the research dollars so projects are in limbo all over. A lot of in fighting amongst the power players who support the campus between sports and education initiatives.. I am told its getting pretty ugly.

Interesting and quite the shame. My hubby got "Duked" and we know others. Duke will keep you on their staff as long as you bring in your own grant money. If you don't, you are shown the door. It's still hard to believe it is this bad, though. Duke is rolling in money and proud of their reputation.

 

[Townie72]

Could it be that this is part of the house cleaning that should have gone on in the aftermath of the Lacrosse faculty disgrace in which a significant number of the faculty publically assumed the guilt of students who were later proved to be innocent?

In the DC area, where some of these kids were from. the Duke reputation took a serious hit.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Quite honestly, would you expect to hear anything else from a professor at a school in D1? This may not be any kind of sea change but simply the normal frustrations of research spending vs other spending. Having spent some time in the academic/research world I know these are not the most friendly environments and the social/political skills of a lot of great researchers are very very poor.

 

[Delmar]

From its beginning, Duke as an institution has always been concerned about appearances. They copied the architecture of the Princeton campus and happily assumed the name as "Princeton of the South." A generation or two ago it would not have been mentioned in the same company as Vanderbilt or Northwestern, or Stanford. Old time North Carolinians regarded Davidson and UNC as superior schools. Duke has spent its money well to build first rate graduate programs, and has grown into the image it has wanted to project. Duke's national reputation has been greatly enhanced by its basketball program. Support for athletics is about image and reputation, perhaps more than academics as the first two posters suggest.

I can't really speak to the current conflict mentioned here.

 

[Shenexon]

Interesting and quite the shame. My hubby got "Duked" and we know others. Duke will keep you on their staff as long as you bring in your own grant money. If you don't, you are shown the door. It's still hard to believe it is this bad, though. Duke is rolling in money and proud of their reputation.

If that's what it took for you to become the superb SU basketball fan that you are, we should all send thank you cards to Duke.

 

[SUFan44]

I post this here because there is more traffic, but its not really a bball story.. Heard a short conversation today with a Prof who just left Duke. Seems Duke has gone all in on sports. the are spending all money on sports related infrastructure and a large part of the campus community is not happy about it. I was told profs all over campus are looking to get out as they have no support and the research Profs cant get stuff done. They said the campus is crumbling and the best Profs who have choices are leaving but once they leave Duke is not playing nice and not releasing the research dollars so projects are in limbo all over. A lot of in fighting amongst the power players who support the campus between sports and education initiatives.. I am told its getting pretty ugly.

Every single professor at every single high D1 University thinks athletics is a joke and has no value.

I'm not trying to paint this person into a corner, but most academic types are 100% against athletics at every level, no matter what percentage of money is put towards anything on campus. And no matter how much money said athletics help bring into the University, be it from applications, marketing/exposure, TV revenue, etc.

Could be wrong, but this sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[bballbeadle]

If that's what it took for you to become the superb SU basketball fan that you are, we should all send thank you cards to Duke.

Ha ha ha ha! It takes one to know one, eh?

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Every single professor at every single high D1 University thinks athletics is a joke and has no value.

I'm not trying to paint this person into a corner, but most academic types are 100% against athletics at every level, no matter what percentage of money is put towards anything on campus. And no matter how much money said athletics help bring into the University, be it from applications, marketing/exposure, TV revenue, etc.

Could be wrong, but this sounds like sour grapes to me.

I was just going to post something similar. Hasn't this argument been going on since Naismeth hung the first peach basket.

 

[Shenexon]

Ha ha ha ha! It takes one to know one, eh?

I mostly watch basketball on tv...you have seats you'll bequeath to your daughter. You and your ilk make the dome the premier venue for college basketball. I'm a fan but those of you that brave Syracuse winters and fill the dome are supporters. Thanks for the plug, but you're on a whole different level of fandom...

 

[ClamOtto]

Every single professor at every single high D1 University thinks athletics is a joke and has no value.

I'm not trying to paint this person into a corner, but most academic types are 100% against athletics at every level, no matter what percentage of money is put towards anything on campus. And no matter how much money said athletics help bring into the University, be it from applications, marketing/exposure, TV revenue, etc.

Could be wrong, but this sounds like sour grapes to me.

This statement is flat out wrong. Do you have any idea how many SU profs (same at most other schools) have season tickets and love athletics?

 

[ClamOtto]

I post this here because there is more traffic, but its not really a bball story.. Heard a short conversation today with a Prof who just left Duke. Seems Duke has gone all in on sports. the are spending all money on sports related infrastructure and a large part of the campus community is not happy about it. I was told profs all over campus are looking to get out as they have no support and the research Profs cant get stuff done. They said the campus is crumbling and the best Profs who have choices are leaving but once they leave Duke is not playing nice and not releasing the research dollars so projects are in limbo all over. A lot of in fighting amongst the power players who support the campus between sports and education initiatives.. I am told its getting pretty ugly.

Sorry to say, but you could say the same thing about SU if you substitute "veterans programs" for sports. And please, before I get attacked, I'm not criticizing veterans or programs to support veterans. Just commenting on the feeling around campus about the university's recent focus and the fact that many top researchers have left in the past few years.

 

[jncuse]

I can sense many back surgeries coming up shortly

 

[RICuse44]

Interesting and quite the shame. My hubby got "Duked" and we know others. Duke will keep you on their staff as long as you bring in your own grant money. If you don't, you are shown the door. It's still hard to believe it is this bad, though. Duke is rolling in money and proud of their reputation.

Most major research universities will do this to you though. The culture is that you move up in the ranks- which typically means securing grant money for research- or you move out.

It's funny that the thing typically least valued in undergraduate and graduate education is teaching ability. A shame really.

 

[OrangeOnions]

When reached for comment, Coach K said, "Amazing."

 

[bballbeadle]

Most major research universities will do this to you though. The culture is that you move up in the ranks- which typically means securing grant money for research- or you move out.

It's funny that the thing typically least valued in undergraduate and graduate education is teaching ability. A shame really.

Yup, the old hubs was a great teacher of the residents and med students. But he didn't get his grant so, off you go. And this is not unusual. I just remember my agony when he told me we had to move and then we came to look at Syracuse in the dead of winter and I was in "a bit" of despair.

But it turned out all right!

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Every single professor at every single high D1 University thinks athletics is a joke and has no value.

I'm not trying to paint this person into a corner, but most academic types are 100% against athletics at every level, no matter what percentage of money is put towards anything on campus. And no matter how much money said athletics help bring into the University, be it from applications, marketing/exposure, TV revenue, etc.

Could be wrong, but this sounds like sour grapes to me.

This statement is absolutely incorrect. As somebody that knows a high number of research faculty at several large research institutions, I can tell you that there are a large number of faculty that appreciate the positive press and advertising that athletics bring to their universities. Don't underestimate the impact that athletics have in terms of advertising for a school; to state that all faculty have this prevailing negative view on athletics is just completely untrue. Are there some that do- absolutely! Is this a matter of debate within the faculty of many P5 schools? You bet. Just look over (down) at Rutgers, where the faculty are constantly criticizing the resources being poured into athletics. Of course, in the case of that perpetual dumpster fire, they probably have a reasonable argument since seemingly all publicity garnered by their athletic department is so negative and they have gotten such terrible results, even with the B1G invite. That laughing stock is hardly a typical example.

To say that there's this prevailing view among faculty that athletics are a total waste, however, is just absolutely false. From my vantage point within academia, the main focus is on securing funding and completing projects. If potential grad students and researchers are aware of a school because of its name recognition in athletics, and give the school a look when they may have otherwise never heard of it or separated it from similar institutions, how could that possibly be a bad thing? Many faculty realize this and don't see it as running contrary to their objectives. SU has many notable faculty that are season ticket holders and give the athletic department a great deal of support.

 

[CuseTroop]

Quite honestly, would you expect to hear anything else from a professor at a school in D1? This may not be any kind of sea change but simply the normal frustrations of research spending vs other spending. Having spent some time in the academic/research world I know these are not the most friendly environments and the social/political skills of a lot of great researchers are very very poor.

We are only D1 for Hockey up here, and I haven't been in one budget meeting in the last 2 years where someone has brought up dropping athletics. Even before we fell into the major budget crisis we and the state are currently in.

 

[CuseTroop]

I post this here because there is more traffic, but its not really a bball story.. Heard a short conversation today with a Prof who just left Duke. Seems Duke has gone all in on sports. the are spending all money on sports related infrastructure and a large part of the campus community is not happy about it. I was told profs all over campus are looking to get out as they have no support and the research Profs cant get stuff done. They said the campus is crumbling and the best Profs who have choices are leaving but once they leave Duke is not playing nice and not releasing the research dollars so projects are in limbo all over. A lot of in fighting amongst the power players who support the campus between sports and education initiatives.. I am told its getting pretty ugly.

They need to be careful with those dollars. I can understand Duke not wanting those research dollars to leave with the researcher, the "facilities and Administrative" dollars earned from those projects are already in projection budgets for the next couple FYs. For a smaller department, losing a big project, could easily mean losing someone from your admin staff.

But if they are going to keep the project, they need to assign a new researcher, and keep the project moving. You don't earn the F&A unless dollars are being spent. And the major funding agencies do not like taking money back. They could find themselves blackballed by some.

 

[CuseTroop]

This statement is flat out wrong. Do you have any idea how many SU profs (same at most other schools) have season tickets and love athletics?

Until the second the research departments operating budgets start to decline, and departments start to get less unrestricted funding (not grant money. Money used to pay staff, fund training trips, building maintenance, ect) Then you will hear it. And just because you see a professor at a game, doesn't mean he's not sitting in faculty meetings screaming about how much they spend on Athletics

 

[CuseTroop]

Most major research universities will do this to you though. The culture is that you move up in the ranks- which typically means securing grant money for research- or you move out. It's funny that the thing typically least valued in undergraduate and graduate education is teaching ability. A shame really.

I mean, you have to have that culture, for both the school and the researcher. If your researchers aren't bringing in big dollars, how can your department survive?

For the researcher, unless they are teaching (which most researchers do not like to do) their only salary comes from their projects. No project, no teaching, no monies

 

[Kowbelkat]

My wife works for Duke Eye Center and the Duke dr's are encouraged to do pro bono lasik surgery if an athlete wants it, they get around ncaa by doing a couple other students a year as research

 

[rrlbees]

Every single professor at every single high D1 University thinks athletics is a joke and has no value. I'm not trying to paint this person into a corner, but most academic types are 100% against athletics at every level, no matter what percentage of money is put towards anything on campus. And no matter how much money said athletics help bring into the University, be it from applications, marketing/exposure, TV revenue, etc. Could be wrong, but this sounds like sour grapes to me.

I'm sure every campus has profs that share that opinion. But it's not close to all and certainly not at SU. I know many profs and even a few research types. They are huge fans and most have season tickets. Heck, one prof got a suite for today's game.

 

[RICuse44]

I mean, you have to have that culture, for both the school and the researcher. If your researchers aren't bringing in big dollars, how can your department survive?

For the researcher, unless they are teaching (which most researchers do not like to do) their only salary comes from their projects. No project, no teaching, no monies

Oh absolutely. I'm not talking about faculty that doesn't teach and just does research. They have to bring in grant money. I'm talking about faculty that teaches but maybe has less grant money (or an equivalent type of contribution). In my experience these folks tend to be pushed out. Actual teaching of students in undergraduate and graduate education tends to receive less importance. Just look at the number of TAs and not professors running many classes in the university setting.

 

[Quazzum69]

I post this here because there is more traffic, but its not really a bball story.. Heard a short conversation today with a Prof who just left Duke. Seems Duke has gone all in on sports. the are spending all money on sports related infrastructure and a large part of the campus community is not happy about it. I was told profs all over campus are looking to get out as they have no support and the research Profs cant get stuff done. They said the campus is crumbling and the best Profs who have choices are leaving but once they leave Duke is not playing nice and not releasing the research dollars so projects are in limbo all over. A lot of in fighting amongst the power players who support the campus between sports and education initiatives.. I am told its getting pretty ugly.