USC and UCLA to the Big Ten | Page 72 | Syracusefan.com

USC and UCLA to the Big Ten

Yeah, no

It’s a huge part of it - but there are numerous reasons why Syracuse is different.
If it's not then your not a P5 program, OK. By the way, you gave me all kinds of snark a couple of years ago when I was saying that realignment was coming fast and Syracuse had better have a sense of urgency about getting the football program fixed, asap. Your response was that there was plenty of time, or don't you recall that?
 
How do you know what the ACC is doing and planning? Do you know if they are talking to the p12? The b12? Individual teams? No you don’t. For them or any AD to disclose anything they are doing would torpedo any plans they may have.
I have to believe that no matter how likely or unlikely it is, the ACC strategy was to wait out the last couple of years if Notre Dame’s NBC deal. If they come aboard for football, add one more and get to 16. If not, either stand pat at 14 or add two more. Got to think one of the B12 Texas schools would be a prime target.
 
If it's not then your not a P5 program, OK. By the way, you gave me all kinds of snark a couple of years ago when I was saying that realignment was coming fast and Syracuse had better have a sense of urgency about getting the football program fixed, asap. Your response was that there was plenty of time, or don't you recall that?
Lol. Winning helps everything. It’s not a novel point. What I was pushing against then is the same thing I pushed back against now: no context, no nuance.

In this thread I made the point that we’re basically in the same position we’ve been in relative to the powers of the sport. Winning more consistently would help out position, absolutely. But look at PITT or even Wake - they have a better recent history and it’s not like they are going to get gobbled up. The programs that are attractive are above us as brands with bigger fanbases built over generations. A couple more winning seasons wasn’t going to vault us to that level.

To the AD thing - Syracuse tries hard to balance football with basketball and lacrosse. They push against the SEC model of “football at the expense of everything else” and that leads to the AD being judged on a wide gamut of things important to the school. Again, football is important - just not the “only” thing.
 
Lol. Winning helps everything. It’s not a novel point. What I was pushing against then is the same thing I pushed back against now: no context, no nuance.

In this thread I made the point that we’re basically in the same position we’ve been in relative to the powers of the sport. Winning more consistently would help out position, absolutely. But look at PITT or even Wake - they have a better recent history and it’s not like they are going to get gobbled up. The programs that are attractive are above us as brands with bigger fanbases built over generations. A couple more winning seasons wasn’t going to vault us to that level.

To the AD thing - Syracuse tries hard to balance football with basketball and lacrosse. They push against the SEC model of “football at the expense of everything else” and that leads to the AD being judged on a wide gamut of things important to the school. Again, football is important - just not the “only” thing.
Wake and PITT have major things blocking them from getting selected that Syracuse doesn't have regarding their standing in their states with PSU and UNC limiting them. Yet both of those schools have prioritized football, it seems. The only thing holding Syracuse back is the perception that they don't have a football focus, like Kansas and Arizona who want to be basketball schools.
 
Wake and PITT have major things blocking them from getting selected that Syracuse doesn't have regarding their standing in their states with PSU and UNC limiting them. Yet both of those schools have prioritized football, it seems. The only thing holding Syracuse back is the perception that they don't have a football focus, like Kansas and Arizona who want to be basketball schools.
Honestly I struggle to see a lack of focus, particularly on the heels of this off-season with the coaching hires and investment in facilities. Not to mention the Fine Mess stepping up with life altering NIL deals!
 
Honestly I struggle to see a lack of focus, particularly on the heels of this off-season with the coaching hires and investment in facilities. Not to mention the Fine Mess stepping up with life altering NIL deals!
There are lot of people who are pulling hard, people who are devoted to Syracuse football. Hoping for the best with the new coaching staff. I can only say this, if Syracuse was having the success that Wake and Pitt have been having, they would be on the shortest of short list's to get a B1G invite. AAU or no AAU.
 
There are lot of people who are pulling hard, people who are devoted to Syracuse football. Hoping for the best with the new coaching staff. I can only say this, if Syracuse was having the success that Wake and Pitt have been having, they would be on the shortest of short list's to get a B1G invite. AAU or no AAU.
I am not sure Wake and Pitt have been doing as well as you think.

There is a lot of mediocre seasons for both programs in recent years. They did both have good years last year.

But last season was the only season either program won more than 8 games in the last 12 years.

That said, it would be good for Syracuse to start building a string of winning seasons. We can and will do better.

Pitt last 12 seasons...

OverallConferenceSRSPolls
RkYearConfWLTPctWLTPctSRSSOSAP PreAP HighAP PostCoach(es)BowlNotes
12022ACC
22021ACC113.786810.88912.320.321313Pat Narduzzi (11-3)Peach Bowl-L
32020ACC650.545550.5001.54-1.1921Pat Narduzzi (6-5)
42019ACC850.615440.5000.600.52Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Quick Lane Bowl-W
52018ACC770.500620.7505.706.5524Pat Narduzzi (7-7)Sun Bowl-L
62017ACC570.417350.3751.214.13Pat Narduzzi (5-7)
72016ACC850.615530.6258.123.5122Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Pinstripe Bowl-L
82015ACC850.615620.7506.323.7823Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Military Bowl-L
92014ACC670.462440.5002.740.97Paul Chryst (6-6), Joe Rudolph (0-1)Armed Forces Bowl-L
102013ACC760.538350.3753.723.49Paul Chryst (7-6)Little Caesars Bowl-W
112012Big East670.462340.4292.05-0.64Paul Chryst (6-7)BBVA Compass Bowl-L


Wake last 13 seasons...

OverallConferenceSRSPolls
RkYearConfWLTPctWLTPctSRSSOSAP PreAP HighAP PostCoach(es)BowlNotes
12022ACC
22021ACC113.786720.77811.280.991015Dave Clawson (11-3)Gator Bowl-W
32020ACC450.444340.429-0.330.12Dave Clawson (4-5)Duke's Mayo Bowl-L
42019ACC850.615440.5003.230.0019Dave Clawson (8-5)Pinstripe Bowl-L
52018ACC760.538350.3752.412.41Dave Clawson (7-6)Birmingham Bowl-W
62017ACC850.615440.50011.426.03Dave Clawson (8-5)Belk Bowl-W
72016ACC760.538350.3750.731.80Dave Clawson (7-6)Military Bowl-W
82015ACC390.250170.125-3.703.55Dave Clawson (3-9)
92014ACC390.250170.125-7.641.61Dave Clawson (3-9)
102013ACC480.333260.2500.002.17Jim Grobe (4-8)
112012ACC570.417350.375-6.201.05Jim Grobe (5-7)
122011ACC670.462530.625-0.661.11Jim Grobe (6-7)Music City Bowl-L
132010ACC390.250170.125-5.074.26Jim Grobe (3-9)
 
I am not sure Wake and Pitt have been doing as well as you think.

There is a lot of mediocre seasons for both programs in recent years. They did both have good years last year.

But last season was the only season either program won more than 8 games in the last 12 years.

That said, it would be good for Syracuse to start building a string of winning seasons. We can and will do better.

Pitt last 12 seasons...

OverallConferenceSRSPolls
RkYearConfWLTPctWLTPctSRSSOSAP PreAP HighAP PostCoach(es)BowlNotes
12022ACC
22021ACC113.786810.88912.320.321313Pat Narduzzi (11-3)Peach Bowl-L
32020ACC650.545550.5001.54-1.1921Pat Narduzzi (6-5)
42019ACC850.615440.5000.600.52Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Quick Lane Bowl-W
52018ACC770.500620.7505.706.5524Pat Narduzzi (7-7)Sun Bowl-L
62017ACC570.417350.3751.214.13Pat Narduzzi (5-7)
72016ACC850.615530.6258.123.5122Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Pinstripe Bowl-L
82015ACC850.615620.7506.323.7823Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Military Bowl-L
92014ACC670.462440.5002.740.97Paul Chryst (6-6), Joe Rudolph (0-1)Armed Forces Bowl-L
102013ACC760.538350.3753.723.49Paul Chryst (7-6)Little Caesars Bowl-W
112012Big East670.462340.4292.05-0.64Paul Chryst (6-7)BBVA Compass Bowl-L


Wake last 13 seasons...

OverallConferenceSRSPolls
RkYearConfWLTPctWLTPctSRSSOSAP PreAP HighAP PostCoach(es)BowlNotes
12022ACC
22021ACC113.786720.77811.280.991015Dave Clawson (11-3)Gator Bowl-W
32020ACC450.444340.429-0.330.12Dave Clawson (4-5)Duke's Mayo Bowl-L
42019ACC850.615440.5003.230.0019Dave Clawson (8-5)Pinstripe Bowl-L
52018ACC760.538350.3752.412.41Dave Clawson (7-6)Birmingham Bowl-W
62017ACC850.615440.50011.426.03Dave Clawson (8-5)Belk Bowl-W
72016ACC760.538350.3750.731.80Dave Clawson (7-6)Military Bowl-W
82015ACC390.250170.125-3.703.55Dave Clawson (3-9)
92014ACC390.250170.125-7.641.61Dave Clawson (3-9)
102013ACC480.333260.2500.002.17Jim Grobe (4-8)
112012ACC570.417350.375-6.201.05Jim Grobe (5-7)
122011ACC670.462530.625-0.661.11Jim Grobe (6-7)Music City Bowl-L
132010ACC390.250170.125-5.074.26Jim Grobe (3-9)
Perception is everything. 2020 makes their current runs look bad, that has to be discounted to be fair. Syracuse discounted a 1 win season.
 
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I have to believe that no matter how likely or unlikely it is, the ACC strategy was to wait out the last couple of years if Notre Dame’s NBC deal. If they come aboard for football, add one more and get to 16. If not, either stand pat at 14 or add two more. Got to think one of the B12 Texas schools would be a prime target.
Most likely NBC significantly ups the $ on a new deal and they stay independent. Only incentive to join the ACC is if ESPN somehow were to trump NBC's proposal... and the playoff somehow remains at 4 teams.

So assuming there's no financial loophole where they can jump to the B10... there's a 99% chance ND stays indy... which means the ACC stands pat at 14. Unfortunately that just delays the inevitable. Buys time to do what kind of maneuvering exactly... other than a temporary stay of execution?
 
Honestly I struggle to see a lack of focus, particularly on the heels of this off-season with the coaching hires and investment in facilities. Not to mention the Fine Mess stepping up with life altering NIL deals!
“Life altering”…..Lol. Love your sense of humor!
 
I am not sure Wake and Pitt have been doing as well as you think.

There is a lot of mediocre seasons for both programs in recent years. They did both have good years last year.

But last season was the only season either program won more than 8 games in the last 12 years.

That said, it would be good for Syracuse to start building a string of winning seasons. We can and will do better.

Pitt last 12 seasons...

RkYearConfWLTPctWLTPctSRSSOSAP PreAP HighAP PostCoach(es)BowlNotes
OverallConferenceSRSPolls
12022ACC
22021ACC113.786810.88912.320.321313Pat Narduzzi (11-3)Peach Bowl-L
32020ACC650.545550.5001.54-1.1921Pat Narduzzi (6-5)
42019ACC850.615440.5000.600.52Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Quick Lane Bowl-W
52018ACC770.500620.7505.706.5524Pat Narduzzi (7-7)Sun Bowl-L
62017ACC570.417350.3751.214.13Pat Narduzzi (5-7)
72016ACC850.615530.6258.123.5122Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Pinstripe Bowl-L
82015ACC850.615620.7506.323.7823Pat Narduzzi (8-5)Military Bowl-L
92014ACC670.462440.5002.740.97Paul Chryst (6-6), Joe Rudolph (0-1)Armed Forces Bowl-L
102013ACC760.538350.3753.723.49Paul Chryst (7-6)Little Caesars Bowl-W
112012Big East670.462340.4292.05-0.64Paul Chryst (6-7)BBVA Compass Bowl-L


Wake last 13 seasons...

RkYearConfWLTPctWLTPctSRSSOSAP PreAP HighAP PostCoach(es)BowlNotes
OverallConferenceSRSPolls
12022ACC
22021ACC113.786720.77811.280.991015Dave Clawson (11-3)Gator Bowl-W
32020ACC450.444340.429-0.330.12Dave Clawson (4-5)Duke's Mayo Bowl-L
42019ACC850.615440.5003.230.0019Dave Clawson (8-5)Pinstripe Bowl-L
52018ACC760.538350.3752.412.41Dave Clawson (7-6)Birmingham Bowl-W
62017ACC850.615440.50011.426.03Dave Clawson (8-5)Belk Bowl-W
72016ACC760.538350.3750.731.80Dave Clawson (7-6)Military Bowl-W
82015ACC390.250170.125-3.703.55Dave Clawson (3-9)
92014ACC390.250170.125-7.641.61Dave Clawson (3-9)
102013ACC480.333260.2500.002.17Jim Grobe (4-8)
112012ACC570.417350.375-6.201.05Jim Grobe (5-7)
122011ACC670.462530.625-0.661.11Jim Grobe (6-7)Music City Bowl-L
132010ACC390.250170.125-5.074.26Jim Grobe (3-9)
I would take Pitt’s record in a heartbeat
 
If you read the article and the full transcript of the interview, the headline really doesn’t reflect what Wildhack said. His full quote when asked if it was inevitable that Syracuse would be left out of imminent additional expansion of the B10 and SEC:

“I don’t know if that’s inevitable or not,” Wildhack said last week. “It clearly could go that way.”

He strongly believes the GOR will keep the ACC together for the foreseeable future and if you listen to the latest Nunes podcast there is an interesting discussion about NBC is actively looking for more live sports for Peacock, how that may affect the Notre Dame deal which expires in 2024 and how that may affect the ACC.
ND should do a WWE deal with Peacock.

whatever games they own, they should package up with the rights to their live games and sell it away.

all the live games continue for free on NBC, but as soon as the game is over, it gets bumped prominently on Peacock and then archived in the ND drop down menu like a RAW or Smackdown.

old games, bowl games...whatever the fluck they own...put it on there.

theyd make a goddamn fortune.

have the deal expire in 2034...
 
If you read the article and the full transcript of the interview, the headline really doesn’t reflect what Wildhack said. His full quote when asked if it was inevitable that Syracuse would be left out of imminent additional expansion of the B10 and SEC:

“I don’t know if that’s inevitable or not,” Wildhack said last week. “It clearly could go that way.”
I read the full article. I want to hear him say “My name is John Wildhack and I take no prisoners”. Not this “maybe we’re screwed maybe we’re not” crap.
 
Wake and PITT have major things blocking them from getting selected that Syracuse doesn't have regarding their standing in their states with PSU and UNC limiting them. Yet both of those schools have prioritized football, it seems. The only thing holding Syracuse back is the perception that they don't have a football focus, like Kansas and Arizona who want to be basketball schools.
What have they done to prioritize football that we’ve not? Our perception is hurt by location Re: recruiting and not winning more (which are related). Some bad hiring decisions and lack of investment during the late Big East years took some time to dig out, but Wildhack is doing a lot to support the program - within reason for a private school in the NE with limited recruiting areas.

PITT and Wake are not big enough brands to move the needle, as is most of the P5. I don’t feel bad about that - it is what it is. We’re not USC or UNC. A proud program with a good history and a decent sized fan base, yes. A good brand relative to the other NE schools like horrible UMASS or UConn, yes. It’s just not be enough to move the needle financially for the B1G and the SEC. Unless we swapped recent history with Clemson a modest improvement in the win total isn’t getting it done.
 
There are lot of people who are pulling hard, people who are devoted to Syracuse football. Hoping for the best with the new coaching staff. I can only say this, if Syracuse was having the success that Wake and Pitt have been having, they would be on the shortest of short list's to get a B1G invite. AAU or no AAU.
And then UMASS would be next!

Sheeesh
 
What have they done to prioritize football that we’ve not? Our perception is hurt by location Re: recruiting and not winning more (which are related). Some bad hiring decisions and lack of investment during the late Big East years took some time to dig out, but Wildhack is doing a lot to support the program - within reason for a private school in the NE with limited recruiting areas.

PITT and Wake are not big enough brands to move the needle, as is most of the P5. I don’t feel bad about that - it is what it is. We’re not USC or UNC. A proud program with a good history and a decent sized fan base, yes. A good brand relative to the other NE schools like horrible UMASS or UConn, yes. It’s just not be enough to move the needle financially for the B1G and the SEC. Unless we swapped recent history with Clemson a modest improvement in the win total isn’t getting it done.
Syracuse on the gambling board at +2500, after 1 winning season in 10 years. That's how close they are to being selected. Syracuse has a huge history starting with the building of Archbold and has taken on the top powers for a century and competed extremely well. The AD makes it sound like he is OK with going down a rung. His legacy is on the line whether he wants it to be or not.
 
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Syracuse on the gambling board at +2500, after 1 winning season in 10 years. That's how close they are to being selected. Syracuse has a huge history starting with the building of Archbold and has taken on the top powers for a century and competed extremely well. The AD makes it sound like he is OK with going down a rung. His legacy is on the line whether he wants to be or not.


All in your opinion which is fine but your insistence on dealing in absolutes is a bit much at times, actually most times. We get it, If Syracuse gets left out of Big 10 expansion then Wildhack is a failure in your opinion. I just disagree
 
As would I, but it wouldn’t change the ESPN/FOX brand calculation.
Only thing they would do that is sustained excellence in hoops and FB, mostly football, neither of which we have or had in well over a decade.
 
Perception is everything. 2020 makes their current runs look bad, that has to be discounted to be fair. Syracuse discounted a 1 win season.
I guess what I am saying is that we have proven we are as capable as those programs of achieving a double digit win season. We are all the same on that front.

We just need to replace a couple of our 4-8 or 5-7 stinkers with 7-5 or 6-6 seasons and we are right there with those two.

Two more wins a season and we are there with them. It is not an enormous gap.
 
You want him to lie?
I want him to project confidence and resolve. It's fine to admit that you don't like what's happening and yet still rally the troops to go to war. I don't want my leader saying 'go home, hide in your basement and pray the bombs land somewhere else'.
 

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