USC and UCLA to the Big Ten | Page 79 | Syracusefan.com

USC and UCLA to the Big Ten

sutomcat said:
Not a legal expert, but I suspect the only way ESPN would agree to give the ACC schools more money in this kind of a deal is if the ACC GOR is retained, the P12 effectively is dissolved and the remaining P12 schools join the ACC as full members.

Then ESPN has long term full control over a bunch more P5 schools that they didn’t have control over before. A ton more inventory on the West Coast for football and basketball.

If they agreed to allow this and promised all schools a raise to say $50 million a season, it is a win for everyone. There are enough P12 schools they could effectively continue to run as they always have for Olympic sports. For football there is maybe one game between the East and West divisions a year. And a new championship game….that could generate more revenue.

And some basketball games between the divisions for sure.

A merger with the B12 would not be supported by ESPN. It doesn’t help them get more inventory and control. And we know Fox has no interest in the remaining P12 schools (I believe they has been leaked).
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$50M is the threshold figure I've had in mind for ACC teams as part of an ESPN, ACC, PAC deal. I'm not sure about that figure for PAC teams. It would be a Massive increase and even more so with the loss of USC and UCLA.
 
Toga said:
$50M is the threshold figure I've had in mind for ACC teams as part of an ESPN, ACC, PAC deal. I'm not sure about that figure for PAC teams. It would be a Massive increase and even more so with the loss of USC and UCLA.
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It would be a heck of a deal for the remaining P12 schools. The super entitled ACC schools (Clemson, FSU and Miami) might not be thrilled but it is a nice deal for them too.

If you look at the various measures out there assigning values to P5 schools, the ACC schools are clearly more values than the remaining P12 schools. I could see a scenario where the ACC schools get say $55 million per year and the P12 schools get $45 million, with their rights all locked up until 2036.

The nice thing about sharing a network with the P12 is that the 3 hour time difference should minimize situations when both conferences are playing games at the same time.

It really sounds like it could work.

It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.
 
HtownOrange said:
To further your point, ND has probably valued its academic recruiting, alumni giving, and more particularly athletics gifts ar or about $25MM, making it feasible to stay independent.

Being a school that recruits nationally for academics rather than locally or regionally, ND must factor in its national exposure when considering joining a conference. At a certain point, even ND must face the hard choices, until then, status quo - which is a good thing for SU.
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ND has a massive endowment and absurd name recognition which offsets the difference. Of course when people see 100mm and whatever they are getting now, it becomes a bit more tenuous. But, ND is renegotiating right now. As I said previously if they are accretive to the BIG, i'm sure they are very accretive to their own independent deal (as usual)

Of course everyone here is selfish about what ND should/shouldn't do when all I hear is how SU would move to the SEC!?!?!? or the BIG in a country second if given the chance.

ND is our best chance at remaining big time in athletics because they haven't hit the detonation button.
 
sutomcat said:
It would be a heck of a deal for the remaining P12 schools. The super entitled ACC schools (Clemson, FSU and Miami) might not be thrilled but it is a nice deal for them too.

If you look at the various measures out there assigning values to P5 schools, the ACC schools are clearly more values than the remaining P12 schools. I could see a scenario where the ACC schools get say $55 million per year and the P12 schools get $45 million, with their rights all locked up until 2036.

The nice thing about sharing a network with the P12 is that the 3 hour time difference should minimize situations when both conferences are playing games at the same time.

It really sounds like it could work.

It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.
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ND will factor into this as well since P12 play ND via Stanford.
 
elimunelson said:
ND will factor into this as well since P12 play ND via Stanford.
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I only see Stanford on their future schedules for this year and the 2 years following.

fbschedules.com

Future Notre Dame Football Schedules | FBSchedules.com

View future Notre Dame football schedules and opponents at FBSchedules.com.
fbschedules.com

Clearly ND values independence. I would think an expanded ACC, with a footprint that extends coast and coast, featuring many solid academic sports that share similar core values, would be something ND would love.

It would also be nice to get a financial boost from them kind of being in the conference but not to have to play them so much OOC.

I am thinking ND remaining a member of a jumbo ACC, where they retain football independence and do not have to sleep in the same bed with a conference that has treated them like dirt for decades, might be attractive long term.

Assuming they get paid for football close to what they would get paid if they were a full member of the B1G or the SEC.
 
We're about to find out if Phillips has the chops to keep the ACC relevant, given recent moves by the SEC, Big 12 and B1G. I think there is growing pressure to expand, and clearly there are some opportunities with the PAC-12. For now, GOR/exit sanctions are keeping UM, FSU and Clemson (UNC?) in check. But at some point, probably sooner than later, upper tier ACC teams will be looking for $50M+ a year to stay in. A joint coastal conference might be the solution, especially with a mix of schools that add value and are academically compatible with the ACC in the wild world of NIL.

The question is, without USC and UCLA, what PAC-12 teams would bring in $50M (per team) a year - and in what proportion ($45M/$55M)? That is a business calculation ESPN needs to make. Stanford, Washington and Oregon are valuable properties, although probably worth less than FSU, UM and CLemson. The point is, with the right programs a dual-coast conference could generate national interest and might even keep ND involved as a hybrid. The country is shrinking and something may have to be done to stave off poaching by the factory leagues. Any potential travel headaches would be minimized by divisions. And from ESPN's perspective, a buyout of Fox (co-owner of the Pac12) is likely to be cheap, or even unnecessary, given that the most valuable schools (USC/UCLA) are gone and the league contract has only 2 years left. ESPN has a minority share in the B1G, but Fox controls it (61% and ^) and ESPN's slice is about to get smaller with Amazon buying in. So given how all these things are shaping up, I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN decided to take a hard look at a dual-coast concept.

theathletic.com

Upcoming Big Ten media deal: Everything we know

The Big Ten has plenty of options for its upcoming media rights deal. Here's where things stand.
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
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Toga said:
$50M is the threshold figure I've had in mind for ACC teams as part of an ESPN, ACC, PAC deal. I'm not sure about that figure for PAC teams. It would be a Massive increase and even more so with the loss of USC and UCLA.
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I’d also expect uneven team payouts with a minimum floor of around $30 million to appease the Florida State and Clemson‘s of the conference.
 
elimunelson said:
ND has a massive endowment and absurd name recognition which offsets the difference. Of course when people see 100mm and whatever they are getting now, it becomes a bit more tenuous. But, ND is renegotiating right now. As I said previously if they are accretive to the BIG, i'm sure they are very accretive to their own independent deal (as usual)

Of course everyone here is selfish about what ND should/shouldn't do when all I hear is how SU would move to the SEC!?!?!? or the BIG in a country second if given the chance.

ND is our best chance at remaining big time in athletics because they haven't hit the detonation button.
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The GOR was a great idea at the time and for those that have been blasting the former commissioner I think he put together a solid deal. In order to get ESPN to put up the money and effort at that time was very difficult to pull off. Hindsight is always clear and as the dust is settling on the latest it is very obvious to me that the only reason the ACC is going to survive and especially Syracuse is because of the long term GOR.

We will end up as the 3rd conference and ND will remain independent. There will be a 12-team playoff announced within two years and SU will have a 5-year minimum probably more like 10 years for everything to shake out. In the end i believe that Bees is correct and there will end up being 4 super conferences that are governed by their own commissioner. Because of the GOR and the time it is going to allow for NIL and other issues to settle SU will have a seat at the table.
 
Orangefizz said:
I’d also expect uneven team payouts with a minimum floor of around $30 million to appease the Florida State and Clemson‘s of the conference.
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They won’t do it with annual tv money. It will be keeping more of the postseason allotment.
 
I know SEC and B1G homers think the money is so great that it will be an even bigger dividing line… but:

- it’s already pretty big and Clemson, FSU, Washington, ND, and Oregon have already crashed the 4 team playoff in the playoff era

- talent in those conferences is more pronounced at the very top (Ohio St, Alabama, Georgia) as it is in the PAC 12 and ACC. The new transfer rules make moving easier - but it’s not changing the landscape that much.

- the bottom of these conferences is similar too. Syracuse/Wake/BC vs Vandy vs Purdue etc.

- there’s enough talent to keep competitive balance (again, don’t need to buy into SEC bias) in 4 leagues that stretch the width and length of the country. It’s in ESPN’s (and Fox and Amazon and Apple) longtime interest to have it be that

All adds up to a competitive deal with the ACC/PAC12 would strengthen the sport
 
A P12 merger would be dumb. Why take on their dead weight? If the ACC would even think of adding P12 teams it should only be Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Utah, Colorado. The other 3 schools are useless.

That would give the ACC 21 teams. If you take 3 more from the B12, you can get to 6 pods of 4 schools. That will allow regional scheduling in non FB sports.

West- UW, Oregon, Cal, Stanford
Rockies- Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Kansas
South- FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, Wake
Carolina- UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA
North- BC, SU, Pitt, Miami
Appalachian- Louisville, VA Tech, Cincy, WV

You probably could add a Texas pod too of Houston, Texas Tech, Okie State, and Memphis. That would kill off the P12 and B12. ACC would be a clear #3 and if it lost members to either the B1G or SEC they have plenty of schools to fill in any holes.

That being said the largest big conference add thus far has been 2 teams. A big add has yet to happen.
 
TheCusian said:
I know SEC and B1G homers think the money is so great that it will be an even bigger dividing line… but:

- it’s already pretty big and Clemson, FSU, Washington, ND, and Oregon have already crashed the 4 team playoff in the playoff era

- talent in those conferences is more pronounced at the very top (Ohio St, Alabama, Georgia) as it is in the PAC 12 and ACC. The new transfer rules make moving easier - but it’s not changing the landscape that much.

- the bottom of these conferences is similar too. Syracuse/Wake/BC vs Vandy vs Purdue etc.

- there’s enough talent to keep competitive balance (again, don’t need to buy into SEC bias) in 4 leagues that stretch the width and length of the country. It’s in ESPN’s (and Fox and Amazon and Apple) longtime interest to have it be that

All adds up to a competitive deal with the ACC/PAC12 would strengthen the sport
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Clauson has built Wake into a legit team that no one takes for granted.
 
CousCuse said:
Clauson has built Wake into a legit team that no one takes for granted.
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Agreed. But historically, they are at the bottom of the conference, small private school, etc.

This isn’t remotely controversial.
 
Champ said:
FWIW on the Dan Patrick Show today, DP mentioned that per a source, if The Big 10 can’t land ND, they have their eyes on Va Tech, UVA, UNC, Duke and Cuse.
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At this point, when anyone suggests an ACC school is leaving the conference anytime in the last 10 years, I consider them clueless and not worth listening to.

Dan, I am talking to you. And Paul Finebaum. And dozens of others.

Even the SEC doesn’t have the money or the stomach to try and break the ACC GOR.
 
sutomcat said:
At this point, when anyone suggests an ACC school is leaving the conference anytime in the last 10 years, I consider them clueless and not worth listening to.

Dan, I am talking to you. And Paul Finebaum. And dozens of others.

Even the SEC doesn’t have the money or the stomach to try and break the ACC GOR.
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The men who run ESPN and Fox, and I'm talking about the real owners, won't let anything stand in the way of their assembling the teams they want.
 
CousCuse said:
The men who run ESPN and Fox, and I'm talking about the real owners, won't let anything stand in the way of their assembling the teams they want.
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Except the GOR. Never beaten. Never even challenged.

Thousands of internet posters have confidently said it would be broken. Each and every one has been wrong. As are you.
 
CousCuse said:
Clauson has built Wake into a legit team that no one takes for granted.
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That’s great until he leaves for a better job and they fall back to the bottom. Coaching doesn’t matter at all in these conversations.
 
sutomcat said:
At this point, when anyone suggests an ACC school is leaving the conference anytime in the last 10 years, I consider them clueless and not worth listening to.

Dan, I am talking to you. And Paul Finebaum. And dozens of others.

Even the SEC doesn’t have the money or the stomach to try and break the ACC GOR.
Expand...
If you get really cynical…you might think that the SEC and BIG collaborate to offer 8 ACC teams at the same time….so they vote to disband the league and nullify the GOR.

SEC gets Miami, FSU and Clemson.
BIG takes UNC. NCState, UVA, Va Tech and hopefully Cuse.

GOR goes away. Politicians aren’t ruffled and it’s all done.
 
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