USC and UCLA to the Big Ten

[Cusetown23]

Dick_in_MI is in Lansing. That almost balances it...almost...

I’m in Lansing as well. I was walking in my apartment complex and there was someone grilling in Cuse gear

 

[gmixer]

I want this so bad. PACC. Makes a ton of sense, good cultural fit, and expands coast to coast. I love this.

I like this idea except take out Washington St and Oregon St let them go to the Mountain West as they add no value. Replace them with Kansas and West Virginia and you have 3 eight team divisions that make sense. In the West are the old PACteamsWashington/Oregon/Cal/Stanford/Arizona/ArizonaArizona St/Utah/Colorado. The East division is the old Big East BC/Cuse/Pitt/Louisville/Va Tech/Miami/West Virginia/Kansas. The South division is the old ACC Virginia/NC/NC St/Duke/Wake/Clemson/Ga Tech/Florida St

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I'm not sure i'll love any additional frankensteinian conference allignment that isn't 100% geographically based. It's all so farcical at this point that the only thing i'm rooting for is gross government overreach to tramp down on these grand plans of big land grant schools trying to establish tv dominance.

Ultimately inaction is ok with me but i really want some sort of anti-trust lawsuit or a congressional oversight of the nonsense happening with tax exempt operations.

The bigger the conference the more regional it can become. For instance a 20 or 24 team conference consisting of 4 divisions will allow you in BBall to play 4 or 5 regional rivals both home and away every season. Same goes for many of the other sports.

Ideally the B1G gulps up most of the non SEC P5 schools and we can achieve a 5+ team division of Northeast schools to play every year. Put us in a division with Penn State, BC, Rutgers. Then add in some form of Maryland, Pitt, Miami, and Notre Dame. For football that is great. It isn't as good for BBall but we would be the premier program in the Northeast division which could help recruiting.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Syracuse, because of its history and because of its fanbase and because of its place as the only major athletic program in the state of New York was always in play to get into the final big conference alignment. The difference in payout from the top level to the next level is going to be a lot of money, like $80 million a year when it's all said and done. That's almost a billion dollars a decade.

Don’t disagree at all with any of this, I really have no idea if we had an invite on the table or if it was just a wave from across the midwest

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I like this idea except take out Washington St and Oregon St let them go to the Mountain West as they add no value. Replace them with Kansas and West Virginia and you have 3 eight team divisions that make sense. In the West are the old PACteamsWashington/Oregon/Cal/Stanford/Arizona/ArizonaArizona St/Utah/Colorado. The East division is the old Big East BC/Cuse/Pitt/Louisville/Va Tech/Miami/West Virginia/Kansas. The South division is the old ACC Virginia/NC/NC St/Duke/Wake/Clemson/Ga Tech/Florida St

if that were to be the plan I would leave out Arizona State, move Kansas to the West (they stick out where you have them), and take one of UCF, Memphis, or Cincinnati for the old Big East.

But like I mentioned earlier why leave out Texas? If you are willing to go to 24, then 28 should be fine. With 7 pods of 4 teams, you become more regional.

 

[CousCuse]

Don’t disagree at all with any of this, I really have no idea if we had an invite on the table or if it was just a wave from across the midwest

It seems from the back channel info that Syracuse is still very much in play even after the program has languished for 10 years.

 

[Jake]

Back in 2004…when all this started popping up….I always thought the ACC was a liferaft of like minded institutions, but also thought the BIG was a bigger, more stable boat.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Back in 2004…when all this started popping up….I always thought the ACC was a liferaft of like minded institutions, but also thought the BIG was a bigger, more stable boat.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The SEC started the expansion trend by going from 10 to 12. Since then they have gone from 12 to 14 to 16. So they have added 2 schools all 3 times.

The B1G has gone from 10 to 11 to 12 to 14 to 16. Those 4 expansions have all been small.

The ACC has gone from 8 to 9 to 12* to 14 to 14 (14-1+1). The idea was to go to 12 so I think we should count that as 3 even though it was 2 teams followed by the 3rd. So for the 4 expansions they have been 3 or less teams at a time.

The P12 went from 10 to 12 to 10. Again small move.

The B12 went from 8 to 12 to 10 to 10 (10-2+2) to 12 (10-2+4). So two of their three expansions have been 4 teams.

So this whole time things have moved slowly. Yes, we all wish it would just end already and get it over with. But most likely this will play out slowly.



IMO the SEC should want to be a national Southern conference. Looking West they might want to think about adding Kansas and Colorado, which are both desirable to the B1G as well. I think those are battleground schools. I think the conference who acts first with those 2 schools will make out. I think these are the next 2 dominos to fall.

If the SEC cannot grab Colorado and Kansas, it will make it harder IMO to then go grab BYU, Arizona, San Diego State, and maybe UNLV. Having those bridge schools fills the map. The same can be said of the B1G. Not getting Colorado and Kansas leaves a hole between USC/UCLA and the rest of the conference.

In the East we have FSU and Clemson there for the taking. IMO both the B1G and SEC should want these schools, so another battle. This battle though likely won't take place for another 10 years.

The last battle will be for UNC. Once they are forced to chose a conference, will they stay Southern with the SEC? Or will they go academic with the B1G? This battle won't be for another few years after the FSU/Clemson battle.

Then we have Notre Dame. Whenever they are ready to move to the B1G, a 2nd school will come along for the ride.

Outside of those 4 moves, I don't see expansion happening in the next dozen years. It might go fast after that point, but for now we are in a slow march toward the end game.

 

[Sherman20]

It feels like TGD got the ACC offer and jumped at it, like Kramer and Java World. Did he keep the B1G in the dark or did he try to leverage the ACC offer into a B1G offer? The reaction at the time was as if the B1G was caught off guard. But this is just the impression I got and could be wrong.

We couldn't risk getting left behind, so the ACC offer was great for us. But that being said IMO the B1G's plan was to take SU and RU. When we left for the ACC that left the B1G having to go to plan B. Luckily for them MD fell into their laps thanks to the financial mismanagement of their AD.

It feels like if we were a little more patient, things might have broken right for us. The ACC wasn't expanding without us. But if the B1G had no contact with SU, we had to go.

Hard disagree. The ACC has always been, by far, the best institutional and geographic fit for SU among the P5 conferences (assuming the Big East was doomed).

The ACC has six private schools as members. Literally every other P5 conference had only 1 at the time of the last major realignment (2011).

ACC schools are largely located in areas that have substantial populations of migrated northerners, and/or SU alums. They're also located mostly in high-growth areas.

Are you suggesting that SU should not have joined the ACC in 2011? What was the play? Decline membership, forsake tens of millions of dollars in media money, and play in the AAC? Drop football to independent status and stay in the Big East?

I didn’t disagree with our move at the time and thought it was the right call over Big East football. Predicting the longterm horizon is difficult. Not blaming them, per se, though Gross did ask Jimmy his opinion on ACC vs Big 10 if Syracuse had to make the move, and JB said ACC (this was reported at that time). I’m just saying that in hindsight (being 20/20) the Big10 would have been the better move when looking at long term strength. I’m pointing out that it may have made sense to lobby the Big10 behind the scenes, though without AAU membership we may have been doomed there anyways.

 

[Sherman20]

It feels like TGD got the ACC offer and jumped at it, like Kramer and Java World. Did he keep the B1G in the dark or did he try to leverage the ACC offer into a B1G offer? The reaction at the time was as if the B1G was caught off guard. But this is just the impression I got and could be wrong.

We couldn't risk getting left behind, so the ACC offer was great for us. But that being said IMO the B1G's plan was to take SU and RU. When we left for the ACC that left the B1G having to go to plan B. Luckily for them MD fell into their laps thanks to the financial mismanagement of their AD.

It feels like if we were a little more patient, things might have broken right for us. The ACC wasn't expanding without us. But if the B1G had no contact with SU, we had to go.

“We couldn't risk getting left behind, so the ACC offer was great for us. But that being said IMO the B1G's plan was to take SU and RU. When we left for the ACC that left the B1G having to go to plan B. Luckily for them MD fell into their laps thanks to the financial mismanagement of their AD.”

This was very likely true at the time.

 

[Sherman20]

I'm not sure i'll love any additional frankensteinian conference allignment that isn't 100% geographically based. It's all so farcical at this point that the only thing i'm rooting for is gross government overreach to tramp down on these grand plans of big land grant schools trying to establish tv dominance.

Ultimately inaction is ok with me but i really want some sort of anti-trust lawsuit or a congressional oversight of the nonsense happening with tax exempt operations.

The one hope, which may not last for long, is that the Biden administration’s antitrust regulators in Justice are the most active antitrust enforcers we’ve had there in a few generations and are trying to break up monopolies in a number of sectors. But I don’t know if they’ll spend time on college sports/universities; and they may only have a couple more years to do anything. Matt Stoller has a great newsletter BIG that’s been reporting on these moves.

 

[Chris02M]

Brian Murphy

@murphsturph
· 1h
NC State HC Dave Doeren: "With our grant of rights, it’s kind of hard to be worried about our league. I mean we have 14 teams that can’t go anywhere, a $120-million escape fee. ... We’re in a very strong position as far as not worried about teams leaving." #ACCKickoff

 

[syrBossHogg]

If I remember I think if SU wanted to go to the B10 it would have been between Rutgers and SU, not both. The B10 wanted to add schools near multiple major markets not just NYC.

For a spot in the ACC it was a better fit and less competition for a seat at the table

 

[TheCusian]

Hindsight is a cruel mistress.

It was the right decision made for all the wrong reasons as i've said. I do not like the ACC culturally for Syracuse as i'm an old school Big East guy. But if you don't have a job you need to do whatever it takes to support the family. Syracuse had to move to the ACC to support the athletic dept even if the likes of Jake Crouthamel and Jim Boeheim held their noses at various times.

Decisions made purely for money always end up being the wrong decision.

I don’t think it was made purely for money. The Big East we left was not the same conference we’d helped to build.

The trend lines were not good.

 

[DocFlanders]

They can make it work if done in stages which would happen anyway. It would be the "plan" but not the action.

SEC takes FSU and Clemson, who say that they are leaving in 2035.

A year later UNC then has to decide B1G or SEC. IMO they chose B1G and go along with Miami, GA Tech, and UVA. Exit 2035.

A year later SEC then offers NC State and VA Tech. Exit 2035.

A year later B1G takes Duke, BC, SU, and Notre Dame.

Now in 2026 they can vote to dissolve the ACC as only Louisville, Pitt, and Wake are left.

FSU and Clemson said they are leaving the ACC in 2035 no matter what? I didn’t see that report (not saying it didn’t happen since i am not following this super close)… can you point me to that report I would like to see it

 

[kcsu]

Back in 2004…when all this started popping up….I always thought the ACC was a liferaft of like minded institutions, but also thought the BIG was a bigger, more stable boat.

I dont think we ever had an invite from the Big so there was decision to be made.

 

[Day2]

The SEC started the expansion trend by going from 10 to 12. Since then they have gone from 12 to 14 to 16. So they have added 2 schools all 3 times.

The B1G has gone from 10 to 11 to 12 to 14 to 16. Those 4 expansions have all been small.

The ACC has gone from 8 to 9 to 12* to 14 to 14 (14-1+1). The idea was to go to 12 so I think we should count that as 3 even though it was 2 teams followed by the 3rd. So for the 4 expansions they have been 3 or less teams at a time.

The P12 went from 10 to 12 to 10. Again small move.

The B12 went from 8 to 12 to 10 to 10 (10-2+2) to 12 (10-2+4). So two of their three expansions have been 4 teams.

So this whole time things have moved slowly. Yes, we all wish it would just end already and get it over with. But most likely this will play out slowly.



IMO the SEC should want to be a national Southern conference. Looking West they might want to think about adding Kansas and Colorado, which are both desirable to the B1G as well. I think those are battleground schools. I think the conference who acts first with those 2 schools will make out. I think these are the next 2 dominos to fall.

If the SEC cannot grab Colorado and Kansas, it will make it harder IMO to then go grab BYU, Arizona, San Diego State, and maybe UNLV. Having those bridge schools fills the map. The same can be said of the B1G. Not getting Colorado and Kansas leaves a hole between USC/UCLA and the rest of the conference.

In the East we have FSU and Clemson there for the taking. IMO both the B1G and SEC should want these schools, so another battle. This battle though likely won't take place for another 10 years.

The last battle will be for UNC. Once they are forced to chose a conference, will they stay Southern with the SEC? Or will they go academic with the B1G? This battle won't be for another few years after the FSU/Clemson battle.

Then we have Notre Dame. Whenever they are ready to move to the B1G, a 2nd school will come along for the ride.

Outside of those 4 moves, I don't see expansion happening in the next dozen years. It might go fast after that point, but for now we are in a slow march toward the end game.

Kansas? Why?

 

[HtownOrange]

Kansas? Why?

Because football drives the bus ... and Kansas football ... is ... nevermind ...

Seriously, you are spot on. While Kansas adds historical hoops chops, this must be a football decision. There is no reason to worry about Kansas at this point in time.

 

[Stevenson]

I’m in Lansing as well. I was walking in my apartment complex and there was someone grilling in Cuse gear

I love Horrocks and Meat BBQ.

 

[Jake]

I dont think we ever had an invite from the Big so there was decision to be made.

Agreed. But that’s not my point. We took the only raft we could get on…the smaller one.

 

[Scooch]

Are people forgetting that there was a moment in time when the ACC came close to convincing Penn State to leave the B1G and join? It was not a foregone conclusion 12 years ago that the B1G would forever top the ACC in terms of value.

 

[elimunelson]

Are people forgetting that there was a moment in time when the ACC came close to convincing Penn State to leave the B1G and join? It was not a foregone conclusion 12 years ago that the B1G would forever top the ACC in terms of value.

Is it foregone within the BIG that Michigan and Ohio st realize they need a bigger payout?

Nothing is definite

 

[Hoo's That]

Is it foregone within the BIG that Michigan and Ohio st realize they need a bigger payout?

Nothing is definite

IMO they're the leading B1G candidates to go to the semipro, "don't have to go to class" league. After 2025(?) you can add USC-w.

 

[rrlbees]

IMO they're the leading B1G candidates to go to the semipro, "don't have to go to class" league. After 2025(?) you can add USC-w.

The thing I keep thinking of is if some schools go the route of not having to go to class, possibly get paid with school budget and is basically a minor league……how many school chancellors/presidents, board of trustees, and other school officials are going to support that model? Might be even tougher for state schools. The charter of institutes of higher EDUCATION does not mean being a pay for play minor league.