USC and UCLA to the Big Ten

[Chris02M]

Honestly my last post on this.

How people don’t get this.

The ACC is on borrowed time. Literally the only move that could save the conference is Notre Dame committing full time.

They aren’t going to do that.

ESPN owns the contract till 2036. The Big Ten will go on the market atleast one more time probably 2 times before that.

That is how revenues go up with multiple outlets willing to pay for content.

ACC expanding won’t effect the GOR it would just require codifying the existing GOR with new member. Expansion is stupid though unless ESPn promised a huge increase in annual payment and they aren’t going to do that unless ND committed full time and I doubt even there they would increase it that much. It’s a great deal for ESPN.

The ACC is screwed because ESPN isn’t going to increase the annual payment for free that isn’t how business works.
Espn will take advantage of this contract till it gets close to the end and if the conference doesn’t play ball would use the SEC to pick off whatever teams of value that ESPN wanted them to offer.

This exactly what happened with Oklahoma and Texas and the Big XII.

People need to realize this.

The GOR basically ensures the not desired ACC schools will get a payoff like UConn and the American teams got from the ACC years ago.

We are screwed.

Literally the only play that saves the ACC Notre Dame committing and the ACC dissolves and reformats as a new conference with the PAC-10 schools and the conference becomes a new mega conference that could go on the market and then all the schools would need to be committed and none looking out for themselves and jumping to the Big Ten or SEC which isn’t happening as everyone looks out for themselves.

Syracuse is going to go down a peg. It’s happening.
Notre Dame finally making their decision will cause the change reaction that is coming.

Notre Dame will look to have their cake and eat it as well as long as they can.
People need to realize when I was ripping ESPN and Notre Dame I saw this crap that was coming.

Your probably right that the acc is on borrowed time, how much time only Marty McFly and Doc Brown know. The only reason ESPN has to increase our media rights deal is to block fox and other networks manipulating other leagues to try to get teams to leave and to a lesser degree for content reasons as nobody is watching non p5 games like they used too unless ND did the unthinkable and turned down the bigten and decided to go all in with the acc. I disagree that if the ACC was proactive and added a division of pac 12 schools there would not be a good amount increase but executing it would require some type of commitment from ND first and foremost as more other valuable PAC 12 schools will be chosen by the BIGTEN if ND says nah were good at the 50-to 60 mil extra money after the added travel costs deducted in media arrangements.
I don't think the ACC dropping down into a level b division is a death nail unless the bigten and sec go super crazy at 24 plus members each in which we may make the cut and we may not. 18 to 20 each seems much more clean and clearcut

 

[Chris02M]

Lol sure they will. The B10 can't wait to work out that enormous volleyball game between UCLA and Purdue in mid January or that Field hockey game in early October between USC and Rutty. There gonna need that 100 mill a year because it's gonna cost an absolute fortune for travel expenses.

thats the truth the only way ucla and usc make sense is if there is an entire division out west and you only play 1 or 2 games vs other division

 

[Scooch]

This was in that Twitter brand rankings thread..View attachment 218107

Most of that ranker is directionally correct but SU does not have a top 20 sized fan base. We’re in the 40s.

 

[Sherman20]

Your probably right that the acc is on borrowed time, how much time only Marty McFly and Doc Brown know. The only reason ESPN has to increase our media rights deal is to block fox and other networks manipulating other leagues to try to get teams to leave and to a lesser degree for content reasons as nobody is watching non p5 games like they used too unless ND did the unthinkable and turned down the bigten and decided to go all in with the acc. I disagree that if the ACC was proactive and added a division of pac 12 schools there would not be a good amount increase but executing it would require some type of commitment from ND first and foremost as more other valuable PAC 12 schools will be chosen by the BIGTEN if ND says nah were good at the 50-to 60 mil extra money after the added travel costs deducted in media arrangements.
I don't think the ACC dropping down into a level b division is a death nail unless the bigten and sec go super crazy at 24 plus members each in which we may make the cut and we may not. 18 to 20 each seems much more clean and clearcut

The thing that puts the ACC in a better position than the Big 12 and Pac 12 is the GOR. The PAC 12 and Big 12 GORs expire much sooner. The ACC is in more of a position to be the poacher here.

 

[Chris02M]

The thing that puts the ACC in a better position than the Big 12 and Pac 12 is the GOR. The PAC 12 and Big 12 GOR’s expire much sooner. The ACC is in more of a position to be the poacher here.

that is true and we have the acc network launch that went really well as opposed to longhorn/espn + and pac 12

 

[Chris02M]

Most of that ranker is directionally correct but SU does not have a top 20 sized fan base. We’re in the 40s.

at least until weare back to actually being good regularly vs occasionally

 

[OrangeCrush22]

The ACC needs to ask the remaining PAC-10 teams to join the ACC. Add UNLV, San Diego State, Boise State, and BYU for 14 out west. Function as 2 separate leagues under the same conference. Instead of playing out of conference games you play the other league. 28 team conference with an Atlantic League and a Pacific League

Only way to save the ACC without ND. If politicians force the Washington and Oregon schools to stay together it makes it possible.

Could go a step further and carve up the Big XII and AAC to form a Central League.

 

[TerryD]

Why be deeply involved with Notre Dame, representing what they do. If a friend of yours was involved with a person of such character, you would tell them to get rid of them, it will only cause more pain and never work out, right.

You guys are funny. Texas, Oklahoma, USC, UCLA, Oregon...even Syracuse, BC, Pitt...all changed conferences for more money and better status, but they all get a pass?

Its all cool and good, just smart business, but if ND does it the Irish are singled out as "whoring"?

Ironic.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Lol sure they will. The B10 can't wait to work out that enormous volleyball game between UCLA and Purdue in mid January or that Field hockey game in early October between USC and Rutty. There gonna need that 100 mill a year because it's gonna cost an absolute fortune for travel expenses.

To a degree, I think the distances are being overblown a bit. It isn't like they will be playing in P'way every week. In addition, Rutgers teams will have to fly to LA as well (assuming their driver can find his way to Newark).

I'm sure there will be other western teams added and perhaps divisions. Flights to the Midwest won't be easy, although they will mostly be direct flights from LA. They might end up rarely playing in NJ depending upon how things unfold.

It isn't like Syracuse non-revenue teams have had to play all their games within easy distances either in our past two conferences; Miami, Talahassee, South Florida, Milwaukee, Chicago, Louisville. The flights from LA might take an hour or two longer but once butts have to be on airplanes, it starts to become rather relative. Even our basketball team doesn't always come back to Syracuse between southern games.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The ACC needs to ask the remaining PAC-10 teams to join the ACC. Add UNLV, San Diego State, Boise State, and BYU for 14 out west. Function as 2 separate leagues under the same conference. Instead of playing out of conference games you play the other league. 28 team conference with an Atlantic League and a Pacific League

Only way to save the ACC without ND. If politicians force the Washington and Oregon schools to stay together it makes it possible.

Could go a step further and carve up the Big XII and AAC to form a Central League.

We're in a 14 team league now, and everyone complained for years that we didn't play the teams in the other division often enough.

Now you want a 28 team league?

Why not just call them the American League and National League and we can meet once a year in the World Series.

 

[Cusefan69]

I don’t believe this is correct. If the ACC adds members, they would have to sign the GOR all the other members of the conference have already signed. Nothing changes with the GOR. The new members are added. That is it.

Agreed. I would think that there's some appendix to the GOR that frames the process around identifying, approving and then onboarding the new schools to the conference including "shares eligibility ". There would be no need to open the GOR itself. To me the question would be adding an addendum framing additional penalties for the newly expanded conference in that expand scenario as you would not want to for example bring in a Arizona and Utah and then have them bolt to the Big if offered.
To me the biggest question is whether ESPN would view the ACC expanding with additional schools as a viable enough expansion to warrant a bump in dollars or does ESPN hold their dollars for the SEC who ultimately will continue expanding?

 

[CU44SE]

If Big really wants 32. We are in no question. They would add 6 PAC teams to make 8 teams out west. 14 teams currently and add SU and ND for Midwest and north east block.

Than add another 8 members for a southern block. Virginia, UNC, FSU, Clemson, Louisville, Miami, WV and then one of (Baylor, Kansas, Houston, Oklahoma st, Georgia tech)


You would then cover all 4 areas of the United States. You would cut off Sec expansion and have the most populated states and enrollments. Which is important for steaming (market size not TV sets).

 

[OrangeCrush22]

We're in a 14 team league now, and everyone complained for years that we didn't play the teams in the other division often enough.

Now you want a 28 team league?

Why not just call them the American League and National League and we can meet once a year in the World Series.

If the trend is toward super conferences it will end up like that anyway. Beat the Big Ten and SEC to the punch and see what happens.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

You guys are funny. Texas, Oklahoma, USC, UCLA, Oregon...even Syracuse, BC, Pitt...all changed conferences for more money and better status, but they all get a pass?

Its all cool and good, just smart business, but if ND does it the Irish are singled out as "whoring"?

Ironic.

No, it's because unlike the other teams you mentioned, ND always claimed to be above that. When "above that" becomes "smart" it then becomes hypocrisy. Don't get me wrong; I totally understand, and I have always felt that the golden domers were full of themselves and no better than anyone else. I just laugh when the logic gets twisted.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If the trend is toward super conferences it will end up like that anyway. Beat the Big Ten and SEC to the punch and see what happens.

Right now the Big Ten is at 16, and the SEC will be at 16 when Texas and Okie come in.

If I'm an AD, and I know both of the Big Boy$ are planning to expand to anywhere from 20-32 teams in the near future, why would I jump at an ACC offer.

The ACC (or what's left of it) will still be there.

 

[cusefan88]

The only possible way the ACC survives is to somehow get ND to full-time and then try and pickoff the Big 12 to get to 24 teams.

Add WVU, Kansas, KSU, TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor, Houston, UCF, Ok State.

Even then...that's not a very sexy football conference. Hell of a basketball league though.

 

[Willy75]

I don’t believe this is correct. If the ACC adds members, they would have to sign the GOR all the other members of the conference have already signed. Nothing changes with the GOR. The new members are added. That is it.

What it does is open the door to renegotiating the ESPN contract right?

 

[Toga]

No, it's because unlike the other teams you mentioned, ND always claimed to be above that. When "above that" becomes "smart" it then becomes hypocrisy. Don't get me wrong; I totally understand, and I have always felt that the golden domers were full of themselves and no better than anyone else. I just laugh when the logic gets twisted.

Ba da bing

 

[Stern]

I was talking more about traditional subscribers as everyday people are not going to be fine increasing their cable bills for sports only by the amount needed for the mega conference models

No bubble is popping though and there is no evidence of anything slowing down. You may believe it will but there is no evidence on your side to support that. And people may complain about rates going up but they still pay them. And if they don't, these networks when they buy now still put sports on their streaming platform.

Pretty much any ESPN game you can watch on your cable box or ESPN+. Same with Peacock games and CBS and Paramount + is now doing the same. Sports leagues are winning and breaking the bank.

Sports programing is the only thing keeping cable companies alive right now. Every other type of show you can watch on-demand. You name it, drama, comedy, reality TV, doesn't matter. Sports is on-demand proof and it will always be!

 

[TerryD]

Ba da bing

You want ND to turn down playing in a coast to coast conference with Southern Cal as a member, with a payout of $120 million a year per school...for what, exactly?

No other school in America would turn that down to be stuck in a Tier Two conference with half the payout.

None. You want ND to give up independence. You just want them to join your league.

You want ND to do that, why? So Syracuse and the ACC are "saved" from themselves and make a little more lucre?

That seems to be "whoring", too.

 

[gbo]

Honestly my last post on this.

How people don’t get this.

The ACC is on borrowed time. Literally the only move that could save the conference is Notre Dame committing full time.

They aren’t going to do that.

ESPN owns the contract till 2036. The Big Ten will go on the market atleast one more time probably 2 times before that.

That is how revenues go up with multiple outlets willing to pay for content.

ACC expanding won’t effect the GOR it would just require codifying the existing GOR with new member. Expansion is stupid though unless ESPn promised a huge increase in annual payment and they aren’t going to do that unless ND committed full time and I doubt even there they would increase it that much. It’s a great deal for ESPN.

The ACC is screwed because ESPN isn’t going to increase the annual payment for free that isn’t how business works.
Espn will take advantage of this contract till it gets close to the end and if the conference doesn’t play ball would use the SEC to pick off whatever teams of value that ESPN wanted them to offer.

This exactly what happened with Oklahoma and Texas and the Big XII.

People need to realize this.

The GOR basically ensures the not desired ACC schools will get a payoff like UConn and the American teams got from the ACC years ago.

We are screwed.

Literally the only play that saves the ACC Notre Dame committing and the ACC dissolves and reformats as a new conference with the PAC-10 schools and the conference becomes a new mega conference that could go on the market and then all the schools would need to be committed and none looking out for themselves and jumping to the Big Ten or SEC which isn’t happening as everyone looks out for themselves.

Syracuse is going to go down a peg. It’s happening.
Notre Dame finally making their decision will cause the change reaction that is coming.

Notre Dame will look to have their cake and eat it as well as long as they can.
People need to realize when I was ripping ESPN and Notre Dame I saw this crap that was coming.

Those of us that can think rationally could also see this coming...

 

[Sherman20]

Going to assume expanding does not open up the GOR . Also assuming B1G grabs Washington and Oregon. I'd go hard to set up a bi-coastal league with the remainder of the P10. Our GOR puts us in a much stronger position to grab teams than the B12 whose GOR expires in 2 years. Divisions with a modest number of intersectional games.
I know this set of eyeballs is more likely to tune into a late West Coast game if it's a league game. Content well into the late East Coast night - right ESPN? Depending how many teams from the PAC join, ACC could still target other teams if they add value (e.g. WV, Cincy, UCF, a Texas school). ESPN would need to step up big time.

Add Washington, Oregon, Arizona, ASU, Stanford, Cal, Colorado, Utah, Kansas, Iowa State, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Houston as a Western extension of the ACC, and create and East and West division.

It’s all just awful. There’s no geographic, regional sense to any of this.

 

[tep624]

The only possible way the ACC survives is to somehow get ND to full-time and then try and pickoff the Big 12 to get to 24 teams.

Add WVU, Kansas, KSU, TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor, Houston, UCF, Ok State.

Even then...that's not a very sexy football conference. Hell of a basketball league though.

One problem - ND isn’t joining that conference.

I think what would have to happen is for the ACC to go national and pick up the best available programs. If Oregon/Or St and Wash/Wash St are joined at the hip as it seems, then maybe that’s an opportunity packaged with Arizona/ASU as well. Then pickup the quality B12 programs as well. You could go to 24 with 4 6 team pods or 32 with 4 8 tram pods - NE, SE, Midwest, West. That’s the only thing possible to allow the ACC to be at the Big Boy table long-term.

This structure allows for further proactive expansion too.

 

[syrBossHogg]

This was in that Twitter brand rankings thread..View attachment 218107

I think our fanbase is a bit underrated but this list is still surprising to me.

 

[rrlbees]

You guys are funny. Texas, Oklahoma, USC, UCLA, Oregon...even Syracuse, BC, Pitt...all changed conferences for more money and better status, but they all get a pass?

Its all cool and good, just smart business, but if ND does it the Irish are singled out as "whoring"?

Ironic.

It’s not just whoring. It’s arrogance too.