We need to play in big boy pre-season tournaments

[PoppyHart]

There was no value to playing the 2016 Brooklyn Hoops (tm) Holiday Invitational.

- We played 3 games against creampuffs (sorry Monmouth) which do not excite anyone and don't really help our computer rankings.
- The one game in NYC was on a Saturday in November during rivalry week for CFB!
- The opponent was a football school with 5 NCAA appearances in 40+ years, and who hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 1973
- The game was televised by something called the American Sports Network (rumored to be going out of business in 3 weeks) w/ Mike Gleason and Mark Adams on the call.
- The game was ostensibly a trial run for the ACCT, but whatever familiarity we garnered in November was of little help in March.

We got into the tourney in 2016 b/c of Atlantis. We ended November 2015 with neutral court wins over 2 top-35 RPI teams (one of who would ultimately be a 3-seed). We left November 2016 with nothing.

Of course, we can't play in Atlantis or Maui every year. But in the years we are not, we need to travel to the places where we can play 3 neutral-site, RPI-enhancing, selection committee-approved games; Disney, Charleston, Vegas, Anaheim, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, etc.. Not the made for TV 1-off events which provide 3 home games and 1-predetermined neutral site game.

 

[Alsacs]

There was no value to playing the 2016 Brooklyn Hoops (tm) Holiday Invitational.

- We played 3 games against creampuffs (sorry Monmouth) which do not excite anyone and don't really help our computer rankings.
- The one game in NYC was on a Saturday in November during rivalry week for CFB!
- The opponent was a football school with 5 NCAA appearances in 40+ years, and who hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 1973
- The game was televised by something called the American Sports Network (rumored to be going out of business in 3 weeks) w/ Mike Gleason and Mark Adams on the call.
- The game was ostensibly a trial run for the ACCT, but whatever familiarity we garnered in November was of little help in March.

We got into the tourney in 2016 b/c of Atlantis. We ended November 2015 with neutral court wins over 2 top-35 RPI teams (one of who would ultimately be a 3-seed). We left November 2016 with nothing.

Of course, we can't play in Atlantis or Maui every year. But in the years we are not, we need to travel to the places where we can play 3 neutral-site, RPI-enhancing, selection committee-approved games; Disney, Charleston, Vegas, Anaheim, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, etc.. Not the made for TV 1-off events which provide 3 home games and 1-predetermined neutral site game.

Your right but with the ACC being a 15 team conference its tough to get a good preseason tournament each year.
Plus, Boeheim doesn't probably want to play any tournament outside the East Coast after the 2013 Maui tournament.

Hopefully Hopkins with his West Coast ties won't mind more national tournament.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Next year SU adds 2 more ACC teams to the schedule. That will probably mean adding a 1-1 record to what we would usually have. That's 2 less non conference games. If we lose more than two games in the non conference portion of the schedule you can kiss the tournament away again next year.

 

[dasher]

Next year SU adds 2 more ACC teams to the schedule. That will probably mean adding a 1-1 record to what we would usually have. That's 2 less non conference games. If we lose more than two games in the non conference portion of the schedule you can kiss the tournament away again next year.

I think the extra two games will come at the expense of a big OOC game and a cupcake. Not a pre season tournament.

 

[cuse10]

Preseason tournaments try to avoid a certain number of teams from one conference. The only "big boy" tournaments are Maui and Atlantis.

 

[Cusefan0307]

2016-17 Early Season Tournaments And Events

Here's a list of all the early season tournaments that happened this year. FWIW we play Kansas in Miami next year. Hopefully we have the talent to compete.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Restart the Carrier Classic

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think the extra two games will come at the expense of a big OOC game and a cupcake. Not a pre season tournament.

I agree. I was just saying we will have two less pre-conference games because of the the additional two ACC games. I doubt JB plays too many extra tough games.

 

[skurey]

Is there still that thing with UK Duke MSU and Kansas playing one game each year?

If so we should do one with Syracuse UCLA Indiana and Nova or something. Man picking four teams from different conferences is tough.

 

[Alsacs]

We are playing 2 tomato cans and Kansas in Miami as part of the Miami Hoophall Invitational.

This year's tomato cans were Monmouth(pretty good team), SC State(garbage team)

Next year the tomato cans will play Kansas, Syracuse.

 

[Chris02M]

Next year SU adds 2 more ACC teams to the schedule. That will probably mean adding a 1-1 record to what we would usually have. That's 2 less non conference games. If we lose more than two games in the non conference portion of the schedule you can kiss the tournament away again next year.

Thats 2 years from now when acc network actually launches

 

[Ish88888]

Restart the Carrier Classic

The carrier classic was an italian bakery of cream puffs, assorted. Looking at this from the flip side, the upper mud majors , like Illinois St. Why not give them a home/home series? Their coach, Muller, i believe, has a very good point. They, like other upper level mid major teams are left out every year bc of lack of OOC strength. Like Muller said, he made 20 calls to the P5 teams and nothing, crickets. We need to drop some of the patsies like cornell and the gate and give teams like Wichita, Illinois st. , Northern iowa, URI, MTSU, and such a home and home. Why not. Its better for all.

 

[skurey]

The carrier classic was an italian bakery of cream puffs, assorted. Looking at this from the flip side, the upper mud majors , like Illinois St. Why not give them a home/home series? Their coach, Muller, i believe, has a very good point. They, like other upper level mid major teams are left out every year bc of lack of OOC strength. Like Muller said, he made 20 calls to the P5 teams and nothing, crickets. We need to drop some of the patsies like cornell and the gate and give teams like Wichita, Illinois st. , Northern iowa, URI, MTSU, and such a home and home. Why not. Its better for all.

It's better for them. Not for us.

 

[Hoo's That]

Just about every pre-season tournament wants an ACC team to participate. It was my understanding that the Conference has established a rotation so everyone gets a chance to play in them. I couldn't begin to tell you the order, but there really is supposed to be one.

 

[Cuse'91]

The carrier classic was an italian bakery of cream puffs, assorted. Looking at this from the flip side, the upper mud majors , like Illinois St. Why not give them a home/home series? Their coach, Muller, i believe, has a very good point. They, like other upper level mid major teams are left out every year bc of lack of OOC strength. Like Muller said, he made 20 calls to the P5 teams and nothing, crickets. We need to drop some of the patsies like cornell and the gate and give teams like Wichita, Illinois st. , Northern iowa, URI, MTSU, and such a home and home. Why not. Its better for all.

Should just combine the Colgate/Cornell games into 1 weekend and invite a "Illinois St" type team as the 4th, instant "Carrier Classic."

 

[Ish88888]

It's better for them. Not for us.

Not really, we play 4 teams like that and go 2-2, its better than going 0-2 vs, teams like whisky and Gtown. All p5 teams need to change their thinking and give these teams a shot. Its an arrogant attitude. These teams are p4 quality and their rpi will look good come march.

 

[Ish88888]

Should just combine the Colgate/Cornell games into 1 weekend and invite a "Illinois St" type team as the 4th, instant "Carrier Classic."

Great idea.

 

[Briancuse]

2016-17 Early Season Tournaments And Events

Here's a list of all the early season tournaments that happened this year. FWIW we play Kansas in Miami next year. Hopefully we have the talent to compete.

I can't wait for the haters to talk about how we never leave the state of Ny next year.

 

[MSOrange]

I think the extra two games will come at the expense of a big OOC game and a cupcake. Not a pre season tournament.

I would agree. Don't most of the preseason tournaments only count as 1 game in the maximum number of regular season games that you can play, regardless of how many games you play in the tournament?

 

[PoppyHart]

I would agree. Don't most of the preseason tournaments only count as 1 game in the maximum number of regular season games that you can play, regardless of how many games you play in the tournament?

You can play up to 4 games, and it only counts as 1 game. So the 8 team "destination" tournaments, like Maui, take advantage of that loophole by inviting a bunch of cupcake schools to play games on-campus as part of the same tournament. The 4 team tournaments, like Coaches vs. Cancer, allow for 2 on-campus games, while the truly special 1-offs like the 2016 Brooklyn Hoops (remember that's trademarked) Holiday Invitational lets lazy and greedy programs have their cake and eat it to: they get to play 3 patsies at home, collect the gate money, and then they play a neutral site game under the guise of a "tournament".

 

[PoppyHart]

Preseason tournaments try to avoid a certain number of teams from one conference. The only "big boy" tournaments are Maui and Atlantis.

Yes, those are the best of the 8-team fields, not counting the upcoming Phil Knight tournament which will have two parallel 8-team fields and blow everything away in 2017.

But the other events still have a lot of value. You get to play 2-3 games against P5 competition, 3 games on neutral floors, and almost certainly 1 against high-level competition. And you still get your 4th game, on-campus scrub school to keep the budget director satisfied. It's an expense paid "vacation" for these kids, even if they don't get to see much of San Juan, Cancun, Virgin Island, etc... How many times have our players been to NYC? It's not like it's still a bucket list item for our guys. And most importantly, the program has proven to excel in these early season, 3 games in 3 days tournaments. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. It would be foolish to not seek them out.

 

[TDTOrange]

We are playing 2 tomato cans and Kansas in Miami as part of the Miami Hoophall Invitational.

This year's tomato cans were Monmouth(pretty good team), SC State(garbage team)

Next year the tomato cans will play Kansas, Syracuse.

Won't that be 3 tomato cans? These are 4 game "events", we also had Holy Cross this year as part of that event. We need to hope that whoever the home filler games are, don't end up being 200+ in the RPI like HC (208) and SC St. (302!!) were. Those things kill the NC SOS rating, along with gagging away home & MSG games against mediocre teams.

 

[Alsacs]

Won't that be 3 tomato cans? These are 4 game "events", we also had Holy Cross this year as part of that event. We need to hope that whoever the home filler games are, don't end up being 200+ in the RPI like HC (208) and SC St. (302!!) were. Those things kill the NC SOS rating, along with gagging away home & MSG games against mediocre teams.

Yeah your right 3 tomato cans over 2 tomato cans.

 

[PoppyHart]

Yeah your right 3 tomato cans over 2 tomato cans.

And this is us:

 

[SoBeCuse]

I honestly think the schedule was fine. If they win that game against South Carolina they are in the Tourney. We clearly didn't do enough in road/neutral...nearly 0-11. Can't have that.