What I learned tonight SU BOT hired Ted Wells to investigate Fine case

[Brooky03]

You don't like the Patriots which is fine. Besides Spygate which the team was punished for by the NFL and lost a first round pick.
What is their holy than thou attitude?

It's hard to quantify. It's partially on the way Belichick, Brady, and Kraft conduct themselves and partially on how the media likes to portray the organization (outside of the cheating scandals). Generally, they give off an aura of arrogance and indifference, as I see it, and commentators or sportscasters seem(ed) eager to point to the Pats as a team that 'does it right.' Elitist is the best word I can think of for it, and I think it would exist without their rings. Again, not an easy thing to quantify; they're just not a likable bunch, IMO.

edit: I feel bad going at them like this - knowing you're a fan and considering I don't genuinely care all that much (though it may seem otherwise) - but I'll add petty to the list. Kraft seems to hold grudges and the organization isn't exactly not willing/eager to throw some players under the bus. The way Welker and Revis were treated comes to mind.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Discovery in litigation IS "investigation". I would say he is plenty experienced. Perhaps not with NCAA infractions, but certainly with conducting investigations, generally speaking.

Have to disagree in the sense that discovery...whether by ebt's or interrogatories...isn't the same as a shoe leather, door knocking, phone calling investigation.
Ted Wells gets paid a lot of money to litigate.
His firm has or hires plenty of people who investigate.

 

[Alsacs]

It's hard to quantify. It's partially on the way Belichick, Brady, and Kraft conduct themselves and partially on how the media likes to portray the organization (outside of the cheating scandals). Generally, they give off an aura of arrogance and indifference, as I see it, and commentators or sportscasters seem(ed) eager to point to the Pats as a team that 'does it right.' Elitist is the best word I can think of for it, and I think it would exist without their rings. Again, not an easy thing to quantify; they're just not a likable bunch, IMO.

edit: I feel bad going at them like this - knowing you're a fan and considering I don't genuinely care all that much (though it may seem otherwise) - but I'll add petty to the list. Kraft seems to hold grudges and the organization isn't exactly not eager to through some players under the bus. The way Welker and Revis were treated comes to mind.

Your opinion is fine because its subjective. I would say the way NFL teams treat their players is no different. NE mantra is too get rid of a player one year too early rather than one year too late. The Pats did nothing to Revis but offer a contract at their value and he went to a team that gave him more money which is his right.

Welker was more of a BB decision than Kraft. BB didn't like Welker long term because of beatings/concussions he had taken. NE offered him a 2year 11 million contract and he went to Denver for 2 year 12 million and guess what he got concussions and BB was proven tight.

Kraft has no grudges that entire operation is BB. Belichick comes off arrogant because he hates drama created by the media. He realizes that giving them nothing is best for his team. He learned that via experience as the Cleveland HC and decided his next job he wouldn't give them anything. BB always says the most bland statements over and over, but he has a funny personality he just doesn't show it.

 

[Full_Rebar]

While Bill Simmons is waging his one-man war against ESPN and the NFL, I want to know this: If Brady did nothing wrong, why was Kraft hanging with Rockin Roger a couple of months ago? Why did he meekly accept the fine and loss of a pick? Was he just trying to make this go away for everyone's sake, or was he willing to end this before something else leaked?

I am waiting to hear why it took until the appeal for Kraft to "go to war" with his good pal.

 

[Alsacs]

While Bill Simmons is waging his one-man war against ESPN and the NFL, I want to know this: If Brady did nothing wrong, why was Kraft hanging with Rockin Roger a couple of months ago? Why did he meekly accept the fine and loss of a pick? Was he just trying to make this go away for everyone's sake, or was he willing to end this before something else leaked?

I am waiting to hear why it took until the appeal for Kraft to "go to war" with his good pal.

Kraft allegedly met with Goodell at CBS President Sean McManus' Birthday party in San Francisco. Kraft believes their was a quid pro quo with him taking the penalties bullet from the NFL and not appealing in exchange for Goodell knocking off Brady's suspension.

Kraft was going to put to up a fight but at that May owners meeting he backed down because of alleged what took place at the Birthday party. When Goodell didn't even reduce Brady's suspension and they went PR after with Brady w/ the phone to completely kill the guy then Kraft had enough. Kraft had his people leak these
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-emails-to-nfl-on-leaks-of-false-information/

To show the NFL office has been on a hunt and been attacking completely disingenuous and has leaked a lot of false information i.e. Mort Report and Kelly Naqi Report and have been sabotaging the Pats instead of conducting a fair investigation.

The NFL had no freaking clue about the Ideal Gas law or how balls deflated. They can't prove manipulation took place. If you read the appeal hearing you see the NFLPA had the Dean of Yale show the science the NFL used was wrong and bias. Also, that Troy Vincent had no idea what the hell happened. It is obvious to infer Mike Kensil and Gardi are the leaks in the NFL office who damaged the Patriots.

 

[Briancuse]

For the record, I hate Goodell more. He's almost single-handedly ruined the game of football. I see nothing of merit that he's ever accomplished in relation to the sport. I went from somebody who lived and breathed football for 12 years (since 6 y.o.) to somebody who couldn't be more disinterested in an NFL football game.

/endrant

I think that might be a tad harsh, yes he has made some mistakes, but the NFL is as good as ever.

 

[Crusty]

I don't know what Brady can do now to convince people he is innocent. If you read that transcript you see how the NFL blatantly lied in their ruling . Brady testified under oath he didn't tell the Pats staff do anything illegal or take air out of the balls.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...stimony-about-communications-with-jastremski/

Brady testified under oath. If you read Troy Vincent's testimony you see the NFL is FOS and Ted Wells used attorney-client privileged refusing to answer a few questions in an investigation he was supposed to be conducting "independently"

Ravens coach John Harbaugh has been confirmed as a liar the evidence shows the Baltimore Ravens Special Teams coach directly told the Colts about this case. Harbaugh directly said he or none of his staff ever contacted the Colts.

Nonsense. Try a little common sense.

 

[Alsacs]

Nonsense. Try a little common sense.

Not sure if your lawyer, but in my experiences in depositions or any hearing under oath I would never let my client take an oath and lie. I take Brady at his word under oath and by the NFLPA filing this hearing into the court record it would in fact subject Brady to perjury charges if he lied.

Common sense would tell me if a man takes an oath in a matter when that is going to subject them to perjury he isn't lying. Also, the NFLPA wanted this record to be open and transparent. The NFL wanted it sealed.

 

[OrangeInduktion]

You don't like the Patriots which is fine. Besides Spygate which the team was punished for by the NFL and lost a first round pick.
What is their holy than thou attitude?

The week prior to deflategate, Pats vs Ravens...The Patriots "stretched the rules" by using deception in regard to eligible receivers. So much so that the refs were confused. It was a huge part of the game down the stretch. After the game when the Ravens players complained, Brady replied..." maybe they should read the rule book". Now rules are rules, but the league...after just that one game changing example...changed the rules this year. Doesn't get much more Holier than thou.

 

[samspann1]

Perhaps we can have a pinned Pats* propaganda thread in each forum, regardless of its relevance to that particular forum?

 

[two3zone]

I don't care.

Hard hitting analysis there Hulk, improvement to say the least.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Cheating? If a deflated football is a competitive advantage, why did the NFL allow the game to go on? Answer: it is no advantage.

Of course it's an advantage, if only one team gets to use their own balls. In cold or wet weather, a slightly softer ball is easier to grip, throw and catch.

 

[Crusty]

Not sure if your lawyer, but in my experiences in depositions or any hearing under oath I would never let my client take an oath and lie. I take Brady at his word under oath and by the NFLPA filing this hearing into the court record it would in fact subject Brady to perjury charges if he lied.

Common sense would tell me if a man takes an oath in a matter when that is going to subject them to perjury he isn't lying. Also, the NFLPA wanted this record to be open and transparent. The NFL wanted it sealed.

You are very naive. The minute he destroyed his cell phone it made him unimpeachable with physical evidence and became his word against the ball boy. That is why he destroyed it.
People lie and tell half truths every day in depos. The number of persecutions of perjury in civil cases is about ZERO.
You remind me of the PSU apologists parsing out the Joe PA nonsense. Joe PA knew and did nothing and Brady told the equipment guy to deflate the footballs. Get over it.

 

[Alsacs]

You are very naive. The minute he destroyed his cell phone it made him unimpeachable with physical evidence and became his word against the ball boy. That is why he destroyed it.
People lie and tell half truths every day in depos. The number of persecutions of perjury in civil cases is about ZERO.
You remind me of the PSU apologists parsing out the Joe PA nonsense. Joe PA knew and did nothing and Brady told the equipment guy to deflate the footballs. Get over it.

You realize the emails from the phone were recovered and given to the NFL. I doubt you even read the damn appeal my god the keeper of the phone records was sworn in and testified the emails from the phone were present an given to the email. If you choose to believe the NFL which was been proven to lie in this case and want to believe that Brafy cheated that is your right.

Way to bring Penn State and fing case that dealt with child abuse and compare it to a case the NFL can't prove. Wow you are a joke the NFL didn't even know balls lost air before this incident. Let's see do I trust a person who actually testified under oath or the side that has slandered the actual facts, leaked false info and doesn't get science. If you wanna take shots I have no problem returning the favor. Call me naive when. I am sure I know more about this case than you do. Bringing in Penn state is a bleeping joke.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-...aves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html


Read that and call this Penn State. Nah you will probably take the high ground and talk down to me.

 

[Alsacs]

BTW the Wetzel article is written down the middle and shows the NFL was FOS. He doesn't let Brady/Pats off the hook just shows how inconptent the NFL has been and put the Patriots falsely on the defensive from the start. The NFL has been more interested in leaking stuff and making Brady/Pats look bad rather than figuring what happened.

 

[Alsacs]

Chris Mortensen isn't the only reporter the NFL blatantly fed wrong information to make the Patriots/Brady look bad. I doubt you even think Mort's report was wrong when it was 100% false and the emails the Patriots leaked showed the NFL was FOS.

Then you get this from NFL.com reporter Judy Batista when Goodell affirmed Brady's suspension. She only got the story 100% wrong. The NFLPA wanted the stuff released and she claims otherwise cause the NFL wants to make Brady look bad in PR and make Goodell look good.

Yeah it this really a freaking Penn State situation. What you said is such a joke. Feel free to disagree but to make one side look like they are defending a Penn State situation is so crazy and loses creditability.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Chris Mortensen isn't the only reporter the NFL blatantly fed wrong information to make the Patriots/Brady look bad. I doubt you even think Mort's report was wrong when it was 100% false and the emails the Patriots leaked showed the NFL was FOS.

Then you get this from NFL.com reporter Judy Batista when Goodell affirmed Brady's suspension. She only got the story 100% wrong. The NFLPA wanted the stuff released and she claims otherwise cause the NFL wants to make Brady look bad in PR and make Goodell look good.

Yeah it this really a freaking Penn State situation. What you said is such a joke. Feel free to disagree but to make one side look like they are defending a Penn State situation is so crazy and loses creditability.

I think Goodell and/or Vincent could lose their jobs over this. They now have ZERO public credibility

 

[Alsacs]

I think Goodell and/or Vincent could lose their jobs over this. They now have ZERO public credibility

They should but people can't be objective and want to call Patriot fans Penn State cult people when the facts SHOWED THE NFL HAS LIED AND HAD A FREAKING AGENDA.

Goodell should be gone, but then people see he hammered the Patriots without evidence and made chit up as he pleased. Throws crap to make Brady look bad when the actual transcripts show he had nothing to hid. Then they say Brady broke his phone when Wells testifies under oath he only wanted the relevant texts which the NFLPA gave him and that he told Brady he didn't need to give his phone. Instead, the NFL plays the PR crap and makes Brady look like he didn't cooperate and they tell their NFL.com stooge the facts that Brady wants the testimony sealed when it was the freaking NFL that did.

This garbage is a joke. People hate the Patriots and don't care about the actual case.

 

[Crusty]

You realize the emails from the phone were recovered and given to the NFL. I doubt you even read the damn appeal my god the keeper of the phone records was sworn in and testified the emails from the phone were present an given to the email. If you choose to believe the NFL which was been proven to lie in this case and want to believe that Brafy cheated that is your right.

Way to bring Penn State and fing case that dealt with child abuse and compare it to a case the NFL can't prove. Wow you are a joke the NFL didn't even know balls lost air before this incident. Let's see do I trust a person who actually testified under oath or the side that has slandered the actual facts, leaked false info and doesn't get science. If you wanna take shots I have no problem returning the favor. Call me naive when. I am sure I know more about this case than you do. Bringing in Penn state is a bleeping joke.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-...aves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html


Read that and call this Penn State. Nah you will probably take the high ground and talk down to me.

Texts were the issue not emails.

 

[Alsacs]

Texts were the issue not emails.

LOL I typed emails when it should have been texts. The keeper of the records recovered 9,997 out of 10,000 text message and oh yeah and ignore everything else I said. Yeah, the Pats are guilty this is a Penn State situation. I respect you as a poster but that comment was completely wrong and makes debate practically impossible if you feel that.

 

[Crusty]

LOL I typed emails when it should have been texts. The keeper of the records recovered 9,997 out of 10,000 text message and oh yeah and ignore everything else I said. Yeah, the Pats are guilty this is a Penn State situation. I respect you as a poster but that comment was completely wrong and makes debate practically impossible if you feel that.

Yes, becasue most of what you say is meaningless if you have a brain in your head. Parsing out the minutiae may keep you occupied but doesn't add up to much. Brady himself is his own worst enemy - his non denial denials, destroying his cell phone; Belichick's silence. the CCTV, the equipment guys' texts all point to his culpability. He broke the rules and whether or not the ball pressure mattered is not the point at all. The "everybody does it" defense does not work either. The minutiae got OJ off, but we all know he did it. The civil trial jury figured it out under a "preponderance" standard. Same thing just happened to Brady - it is not a criminal trial and the standard is lower - as it should be.

If you think these equipment guys did it on their own, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Alsacs]

Yes, becasue most of what you say is meaningless if you have a brain in your head. Parsing out the minutiae may keep you occupied but doesn't add up to much. Brady himself is his own worst enemy - his non denial denials, destroying his cell phone; Belichick's silence. the CCTV, the equipment guys' texts all point to his culpability. He broke the rules and whether or not the ball pressure mattered is not the point at all. The "everybody does it" defense does not work either. The minutiae got OJ off, but we all know he did it. The civil trial jury figured it out under a "preponderance" standard. Same thing just happened to Brady - it is not a criminal trial and the standard is lower - as it should be.

If you think these equipment guys did it on their own, I have a bridge to sell you.

Newsflash you realize it is very reasonable thanks to the science of the Ideal Gas Law that was proven by the Brady team in the appeal with Dean of Yale that the Patriots balls were exactly where they should have been due to the effects of the weather.
The balls were not deflated by 2 PSI you ignore that and accept the general premise that manipulation took place. The NFL BEFORE THIS ALL STARTED didn't know about the Ideal Gas Law. I just can't understand how you can debate and not have read the testimony. Instead you have your own conclusion and don't care about the other side.

Did you gloss over the article I linked or the two subsequent posts. Your premise is the balls were deflated when the NFL can't even prove that took place. You said he broke rules and the NFL doesn't even know that. I mean stop it. Your opinion can be whatever you want it to be. I will not respond to another post you make because your posts are slanted more than you are accusing me of.

You are taking the side of the NFL which has lied throughout this investigation has lied in the Rice and Peterson investigations and want to come to the conclusion Brady cheated when they have no clue he did. They came to a conclusion a long time ago and haven't proven the Pats ball boys DID ANYTHING to the balls.

 

[retro44]

Cheating? If a deflated football is a competitive advantage, why did the NFL allow the game to go on? Answer: it is no advantage.

Seriously???????? Are suggesting they should have suspended the game at halftime,run their investigation and then resume it ? Lawyers,fans and the media would have had a huge field day if they suspended the game w/o knowing the facts.

What do you do for a living? They properly inflated the balls at halftime w/o the deflater taking control of them after the fact.

 

[retro44]

Yes, becasue most of what you say is meaningless if you have a brain in your head. Parsing out the minutiae may keep you occupied but doesn't add up to much. Brady himself is his own worst enemy - his non denial denials, destroying his cell phone; Belichick's silence. the CCTV, the equipment guys' texts all point to his culpability. He broke the rules and whether or not the ball pressure mattered is not the point at all. The "everybody does it" defense does not work either. The minutiae got OJ off, but we all know he did it. The civil trial jury figured it out under a "preponderance" standard. Same thing just happened to Brady - it is not a criminal trial and the standard is lower - as it should be.

If you think these equipment guys did it on their own, I have a bridge to sell you.

He has been doing this for sooooooo long breaking down the rules and integrity of the game that some will not vote him into the hall,that is why Brady/Kraft are fighting this real hard. He will get in,but it won't be a slam dunk vote anymore

 

[retro44]

Newsflash you realize it is very reasonable thanks to the science of the Ideal Gas Law that was proven by the Brady team in the appeal with Dean of Yale that the Patriots balls were exactly where they should have been due to the effects of the weather.
The balls were not deflated by 2 PSI you ignore that and accept the general premise that manipulation took place. The NFL BEFORE THIS ALL STARTED didn't know about the Ideal Gas Law. I just can't understand how you can debate and not have read the testimony. Instead you have your own conclusion and don't care about the other side.

Did you gloss over the article I linked or the two subsequent posts. Your premise is the balls were deflated when the NFL can't even prove that took place. You said he broke rules and the NFL doesn't even know that. I mean stop it. Your opinion can be whatever you want it to be. I will not respond to another post you make because your posts are slanted more than you are accusing me of.

You are taking the side of the NFL which has lied throughout this investigation has lied in the Rice and Peterson investigations and want to come to the conclusion Brady cheated when they have no clue he did. They came to a conclusion a long time ago and haven't proven the Pats ball boys DID ANYTHING to the balls.

And by those same rules of gas the opponents balls should have been deflated too...That's it,the Colts cheated by adding air to theirs.

Sales of Prozac have skyrocketed in New England and their fans elsewhere.