What Will It Take...

[Conrad13]

Understand the frustration, and agree that he's not much of a coach on offense.

But in the bigger picture, he's gotten more out of this team than most of us expected in the preseason.

They're just not very good. They've overachieved, and the coaching staff deserves credit for that.

I don't understand how not being very good is an excuse for not having ball movement on offense. I'm not exaggerating when I say that teams in my son's 7th grade league move the ball better than this team. I don't hold it against Howard, Brissett, and Battle for taking contested threes and trying to drive through three defenders. That's all that our offense allows them to do.

 

[OrangeDW]

I hear that. But having Frank and Tyus just jack up threes with 20 seconds left on the shot clock isn't really great offense either. The answer isn't to go to more ISO ball.

I don’t know what the answer is...I can’t really see any scenario where this years group is a strong offensive team regardless of coach, system, etc.

 

[hungrychuck]

I don't understand how not being very good is an excuse for not having ball movement on offense. I'm not exaggerating when I say that teams in my son's 7th grade league move the ball better than this team. I don't hold it against Howard, Brissett, and Battle for taking contested threes and trying to drive through three defenders. That's all that our offense allows them to do.

That's why I said he's not much of a coach on offense.

And I've been begging for ball movement too.

But even with great ball movement, you are somewhat limited by having 2.5 guys who can shoot even a little bit.

 

[RoofBeam]

Irrelevance...almost total. Wildhack wanted Boeheim, he got Boeheim.

College basketball: Inside Washington's surprising turnaround season under first-year coach Mike Hopkins

 

[moqui]

sanctions did their job

 

[pearl31]

sanctions did their job

HE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR THAT NONSENSE!!!!

 

[hungrychuck]

sanctions did their job

Lol.

 

[moqui]

seriously though: what it will take for me to reach your conclusion is for this mediocre showing to continue after the sanctions have run their course

till then, all i have to say to the op is premature anything is not good

 

[HakAttack]

seriously though: what it will take is for me to reach your conclusion is for this mediocre showing to continue after the sanctions have run their course

till then, all i have to say to the op is premature anything is not good

We’ll see. I’ll eat my words if we’re a top 3 seed next year. And if we somehow magically find ourselves in the top 4-5 of the ACC and making deep March runs during the last four years of JB’s career I’ll gladly donate to the statue that will undoubtably be built.

Somehow I can’t imagine any of those things will happen. (Minus the statue, which IMO should happen, somewhere at Manley).

 

[Icebreaker]

It's crazy how we have a lackluster offensive year and now Boeheim can't coach offense all of a sudden. Last year we had an average offensive score of 76.3, this year we have 68. Last year we let up an average up 71 points, this year we let up 63.8. Remember all of the posts last year of how the coaches need to teach defense ? They literally disappeared and popped up with offense in the title. Majority of the guys we had this year aren't pure scorers no matter how you put it. The sanctions hurt us and we will get back on track starting next year. Just Woosah guys.

And for those who say the sanctions didn't hurt us take a look at this page.

T-Rank History for Syracuse T-Rank - College Basketball Ratings and Rankings

 

[dasher]

...for the JB apologists to admit that the game has passed him by?

15' - sanctions, but likely NIT
16' - miracle Final Four run because Sparty got upset
17' - NIT
18' - NIT

a .500 record in ACC play since joining.
0 for the ACC tournament.
Unable to run any semblance of an offense.
Makes zero in-game adjustments on offense or defense.
Hasn't recruited a true PG since Kaleb.

I don't want to hear this "sanctions did their job nonsense."

What will it take for folks to acknowledge that he's not getting it done anymore? I love Jim Boeheim for what he's done for Syracuse basketball. Hell, he MADE Syracuse basketball. But one person is not bigger than the overall program. Just as a point of reference, Wooden retired at 65. Dean Smith was 66. Knight was 68 when he retired. Boeheim has indicated he wants to coach another 4 years, until Buddy's done, so he'll be 77 at that point. That's insane. I can't see any way he'll last 4 more years.

He's only hanging on to coach his son. That's incredibly selfish considering he's dragging down this program. What's worked for him in the past isn't working now and he's too old to make wide, sweeping necessary changes to adapt with the times.

How low does this program have to fall before people feel that it's time?

Please stop with the Mich st lost crap. They got beat by team we beat by 25. We would have beat MSU too. They have beat us once under Izzo and they had to have a site in Michigan to do it. Oh, and we have also gone to two final fours in the last 5 years. Enough. The sanctions f ed us. It's why we don't have enough players. By the way, the sanctions f'ed us back in the early 90's too. If we look like this next year, you might have something. but we won't.

 

[Briancuse]

Thoughts on last year?

Last year was jbs worst coaching job ever..that team massively underachieved.

 

[orangecuse]

In regards to our offense and playing 3 on 5 dilemma due to personnel weaknesses, etc., could JB not do something for Moyer and Marek freeing them up/running back door type plays a la Princeton of yesteryear? Those teams had personnel concerns against more talented opponents, but seemed to have success. Just wondering.

In any event, our defense was atrocious tonight, no way this team beats anyone giving up 80 plus points.

 

[dasher]

I'm so sick and tired of hearing people using the sanctions as an excuse. Whose fault are the sanctions? Even if we think the sanctions were BS whose fault is it that the NCAA doesn't like JB?

JB has done tremendous things at Syracuse, accomplishments no one can take away. But along with accepting the accolades comes accepting the heat for our lack of success in the ACC, recruiting and the sanctions. You can't take credit for the positives but refuse to own the criticism.

IMO the future isn't going to get any better until we have a new coach. Sure we may see a bump next year with our 2018 recruiting class. But good luck after that. One tournament bid in 4 years, and the oldest D1 coach don't bode too well.

I love Syracuse and if I was a good high school player I wouldn't come here. We're a sinking ship.

We are a sinking ship? lol We have gone to two final fours in the last five years. And whether you are sick and tired of the sanction talk is not really important. They hurt us badly. Just like they were designed to do. Now, if you want to go at Jb for them, be my guest. But only a complete dope would think they haven't hurt us badly. While other schools had 4 coaches on the road recruiting, we had two. tough to build relationships with kids that way. We couldn't bring in Huerter because we didn't have any ships available. And Huerter had nothing to do with Battle. heard that nonsense.

 

[dasher]

Last year was jbs worst coaching job ever..that team massively underachieved.

Have you watched all 42 years?

 

[HOFCeluck]

H0T Takes comin through...

 

[dasher]

In regards to our offense and playing 3 on 5 dilemma due to personnel weaknesses, etc., could JB not do something for Moyer and Marek freeing them up/running back door type plays a la Princeton of yesteryear? Those teams had personnel concerns against more talented opponents, but seemed to have success. Just wondering.

In any event, our defense was atrocious tonight, no way this team beats anyone giving up 80 plus points.

Moyer or Marek don't compare with the skills those Princeton kids had. they all good shoot. They all could handle. They all could pass. One of those kids played at the school next to my old high school. He didn't start until his sr year at Princeton and Marek and Moyer will never have his skills.

 

[HakAttack]

Final Fours are not a panacea to larger underlying issues that a program has.

The 2016 Final Four was a product of luck & good basketball for 2 weeks.

 

[dasher]

H0T Takes comin through...

You could give it a shot and give one.

 

[dasher]

Final Fours are not a panacea to larger underlying issues that a program has.

The 2016 Final Four was a product of luck & good basketball for 2 weeks.

In this decade, we have been a #1 seed twice and have gone to two final fours. A fifth year, we started 25-0. Yes, these bubble years have been rough. Unacceptable really. But they match up with the sanctions. Which are just about over. If we look like this next year, I will be right with the time for a change crowd. But right now, this is better than I expected this year. We have guys playing that would never be playing for us in most years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

You could give it a shot and give one.

You mean like how it was hardly a secret that this was going to be a painful year this past summer? BEFORE we lost TT, Thorpe, Sidibe, and Washington? But NOW we've come to the conclusion that JB has lost it?

Nah I'm just going to continue to be snarky. It's more fun.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Bad game all around today. Lots of sloppy passes. All hero ball. Frank made some shots but he was horrendous running the offense, picking up his dribble, bad passes, not playing downhill, etc. BC ran a clinic on offense. Dolezaj and Moyer wer atrocious. Not a lot of fight out there tonight.

No excuses next year for Boeheim and the program.

 

[hungrychuck]

Bad game all around today. Lots of sloppy passes. All hero ball. Frank made some shots but he was horrendous running the offense, picking up his dribble, bad passes, not playing downhill, etc. BC ran a clinic on offense. Dolezaj and Moyer wer atrocious. Not a lot of fight out there tonight.

No excuses next year for Boeheim and the program.

I think there's near consensus on that point. Probably save Townie, but he doesn't really count.

 

[orangecuse]

Moyer or Marek don't compare with the skills those Princeton kids had. they all good shoot. They all could handle. They all could pass. One of those kids played at the school next to my old high school. He didn't start until his sr year at Princeton and Marek and Moyer will never have his skills.

Well, they certainly chose Princeton for their academics then, as with all those essential basketball skills like that, none would've done them any good at the P5 type schools.

 

[orangecuse]

no this is completely wrong. this isn't the pros where the coaches are separate from the GMs and roster decisions. this is college and the staff is responsible for the roster. and no they haven't overachieved.

You're correct according to the ACC media preseason poll. SU was predicted 10th, they currently are 12th, and, the odds of where they will likely finish.