Why is Jerry palm so down on

[TDTOrange]

Never understood why they harped on road wins so much. The tournament is all on neutral courts.

It's not so much road wins, as it is wins away from home. Obviously teams play more road games than neutral ones, so it often gets framed that way. But what the committee has said in the past is they want teams to prove they can win away from home since no one plays their tournament games at home.

A win today against GT doesn't really help our overall resume much, however losing today would hurt it considerably. A win in Brooklyn would make things quite a bit easier next Sunday, and 2 would take all the suspense out of it. Remember, there are still bid stealers to come and the bubble always shrinks in this last week before selection Sunday.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Can't lose to GT twice. This is a MUST.

 

[jdubs30]

Never understood why they harped on road wins so much. The tournament is all on neutral courts.

Couldn't agree more. When Palm says "tournament games aren't played at home" - while that's true, they aren't played on the road either.

I don't think we aren't as good of a team as we've shown at home - but we aren't as bad as we've shown on the road either; we're somewhere in the middle

 

[KaiserUEO]

Can't lose to GT twice. This is a MUST.

doesn't even matter that its gatech, lose...and the only way in will be to win the ACC-T

 

[shandeezy7]

doesn't even matter that its gatech, lose...and the only way in will be to win the ACC-T

By that logic, then you must also think that in addition to beating Georgia Tech, we also absolutely need to win the first game in the ACC tournament. I think A win today and one in the ACC tournament would put us at lock status, but I also think a win today and a loss in the first game of the ACC tournament could still be enough.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's not so much road wins, as it is wins away from home. Obviously teams play more road games than neutral ones, so it often gets framed that way. But what the committee has said in the past is they want teams to prove they can win away from home since no one plays their tournament games at home.

A win today against GT doesn't really help our overall resume much, however losing today would hurt it considerably. A win in Brooklyn would make things quite a bit easier next Sunday, and 2 would take all the suspense out of it. Remember, there are still bid stealers to come and the bubble always shrinks in this last week before selection Sunday.

But winning on neutral courts and winning on the road are such different things. And given that most teams haven't played on a neutral court since November, time when Cuse and many others were an entirely different team, I think too much is made of it. Not being a good road team has nothing to do with neutral courts come tourney time in my opinion. They should be focusing on your record, who you beat, and who you lost to...and some other factors like injuries, new players, etc...just get the best teams in.

 

[Madbiker]

Palm prioritizes bad losses over good wins. In recent years the selection committee has been influenced more by good wins (who did you beat?). Let's hope that view continues.

 

[jdubs30]

doesn't even matter that its gatech, lose...and the only way in will be to win the ACC-T

DId you mean win 1 game in the ACCT or win the whole thing?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Has anybody ever tried to correlate road/neutral record with tournament success, controlling for seeding and stuff like that?

Would be interesting.

 

[OrangeDW]

Palm prioritizes bad losses over good wins. In recent years the selection committee has been influenced more by good wins (who did you beat?). Let's hope that view continues.

Focusing on a couple "bad losses" is tricky though unless you look at why they happened.

People like Gottlieb wanted to focus on "they lost to St. John's!" last year while ignoring the context. For the most part we played pretty good ball last year. The exception was when our season was disrupted when our coach was gone. Anyone with some common sense could see how that would affect a team negatively. Take that stretch out and we played good ball all year. Just lost some tough, close games down the stretch to good teams. So what?

This year, anyone with some common sense that actually pays attention can see that Syracuse was not a good team early in the year. Lots of new players, different lineups being tinkered with, etc. The last two months, they've been a pretty good team. Flawed, not great, but we've mostly played pretty good ball for two months and are a dangerous team now.

 

[Chris02M]

Hard to take Palm seriously. He has Wichita State on the bubble and has implied that they need to win the MVC tourney to get a bid. That boy smoking some strong sheet.

there probably getting in but there top 100 rpi lack of wins makes them not a lock

 

[Cuse House]

Give me UVA in the ACC tourney. We are in their heads, and they struggle on offense big time. Think we can take them again, now that JB knows the secret sauce against Bennett's D.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It's a good criteria IMO to actually decipher who the better teams and better resumes are. But, yes, in the Tournament many of the sites are dead and empty venues for those noon or late tips the first few rounds. In that sense, one's road/neutral record is sort of null and void then. But, I think it is a fair criteria for selection. A team should be able to show that they are somewhat competent and mentally tough on the road. Usually SU is good on the road. This year it is a problem, obviously.

 

[orangenirvana]

Palm suggests that the difference between last year and this for us is road/ neutral wins. He was one who had us in last year due to the Atlantis wins. So he's just using that theory that cuse hasn't won jack on road or neutral. Sadly he's right. I don't think that keeps us out though if we go 1-1 or 1-2 in the next couple of games

Then I'm guessing he doesn't have VCU, Xavier, Wake Forest, USC, TCU or Texas Tech in his field. Since none of those teams have Top 50 road wins either.

 

[KaiserUEO]

By that logic, then you must also think that in addition to beating Georgia Tech, we also absolutely need to win the first game in the ACC tournament. I think A win today and one in the ACC tournament would put us at lock status, but I also think a win today and a loss in the first game of the ACC tournament could still be enough.

YES.

need 2 Wins to at least be in consideration.

otherwise, I hope you like Spring Training...

 

[jncuse]

doesn't even matter that its gatech, lose...and the only way in will be to win the ACC-T

More ridiculously inaccurate projections from Kaiser. Don't you get tired of always being not just wrong but way off on this topic? Last year we were done after every loss (about 3 losses before the season was over)... then grossly evaluating what our record needed to be early in conference... now this.

While we will need to do some damage in the ACC, 2 wins would probably do it.

 

[KaiserUEO]

More ridiculously inaccurate projections from Kaiser. Don't you get tired of always being not just wrong but way off on this topic? Last year we were done after every loss (about 3 losses before the season was over)... then grossly evaluating what our record needed to be early in conference... now this.

While we will need to do some damage in the ACC, 2 wins would probably do it.

that was a whole lot of rubbish to agree with me that 2 wins is what we need.

 

[jncuse]

Palm suggests that the difference between last year and this for us is road/ neutral wins. He was one who had us in last year due to the Atlantis wins. So he's just using that theory that cuse hasn't won jack on road or neutral. Sadly he's right. I don't think that keeps us out though if we go 1-1 or 1-2 in the next couple of games

We had top 50 wins on the road / neutral last year that we don't have this year. You can't compare this year vs last. Palm is right in that regard.

While I don't have us out, there is enough uncertainty about our current position and how it fits in to the NCAA primary factors for bubble selection.

 

[jncuse]

that was a whole lot of rubbish to agree with me that 2 wins is what we need.

You said we need to win the ACC tournament. Two wins does not equal 4 wins, especially when the last 2 would probably be elite wins.

 

[djorange1989]

Focusing on a couple "bad losses" is tricky though unless you look at why they happened.

People like Gottlieb wanted to focus on "they lost to St. John's!" last year while ignoring the context. For the most part we played pretty good ball last year. The exception was when our season was disrupted when our coach was gone. Anyone with some common sense could see how that would affect a team negatively. Take that stretch out and we played good ball all year. Just lost some tough, close games down the stretch to good teams. So what?

This year, anyone with some common sense that actually pays attention can see that Syracuse was not a good team early in the year. Lots of new players, different lineups being tinkered with, etc. The last two months, they've been a pretty good team. Flawed, not great, but we've mostly played pretty good ball for two months and are a dangerous team now.

When you say people like Gottlieb, I assume that is a polite way of saying dbags?

 

[jncuse]

Can't lose to GT twice. This is a MUST.

It's not a "must" in that we can't recover, but it significantly reduces our chances. I would hate to have to win an extra quality game in the ACC tournament, above the one we may (or may not) need even if we beat Tech.

 

[jncuse]

Couldn't agree more. When Palm says "tournament games aren't played at home" - while that's true, they aren't played on the road either.

I don't think we aren't as good of a team as we've shown at home - but we aren't as bad as we've shown on the road either; we're somewhere in the middle

I have a hard time ignoring the second largest primary factor whether I disagree with the philosophy or not.

What helped us last year is that we hammered both the top 2 primary factors (top 50, and road/neutral performance).

In the end it will just come down to who they think did enough in other factors to offset our lead in quality win. I am hardly saying we are done, I am just concerned about committee judgement on this one and how they will apply it.

 

[jncuse]

I don't think we need 2 wins "to be in consideration"

1 win, whenever it is will certainly put us in consideration, but its 50/50 (IMO) if that will actually cross the line in the committee room.

 

[Ish88888]

... CUSE

I mean it just our resume is so much stronger than some of these pac 12 or Big East or big 12 teams. is it just their awful performance on the road?
I mean Good wins versus Miami, wake forest, duke,Virginia,Florida State, Monmouth, Pittsburgh

We should beat monmouth 9/10 times and pitt stinks this year. We got enbarrassed by the johnnies, an aweful team , by 30+ . Our bad losses are right there with our good wins. Palm is legit, hopefully we win today and at least 1 in the ACCT to solidify.

 

[Ish88888]

Palm kills us because we have 2 road wins. That's his whole issue with us

Yea, thats kinda a big deal.