worst 50 game stretch in JB era

[Knicks411]

Well if you're not going to be patient enough to develop tier 2 guys I'm not sure what the alternative is. I know everyone is putting this down to bad luck over the past few years with graduations and early departures but the truth is we've had like 4 good offensive teams in 15 years.

I think this is overstating things a little, though I guess it depends on how you define good.

Since 2002, here are our offensive effiency rankings, starting with 2002
123
14
24
14
53
63
47
6
9
29
7
29
37
145
70

We've ranked in the top 25 6 times, with 2 more times at 29. 8 of the 15 years we've been top 30, which I think is pretty good.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If hop learned m2m from JB we might be in for a huge letdown. Let's hope he is pulling knowledge from other resources on that front.

Nobody was asking for us to play man from 2009--2013.

 

[skurey]

Nobody was asking for us to play man from 2009--2013.

I know I was. You can be really good at more than one defense.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I know I was. You can be really good at more than one defense.

Careful. That kind of talk closes out of town.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think this is overstating things a little, though I guess it depends on how you define good.

Since 2002, here are our offensive effiency rankings, starting with 2002
123
14
24
14
53
63
47
6
9
29
7
29
37
145
70

We've ranked in the top 25 6 times, with 2 more times at 29. 8 of the 15 years we've been top 30, which I think is pretty good.

I think offensive efficiency is overrated as a stat for measuring whether a team is offensively oriented or defensively oriented. Here are a few other stats:

SU PPG SU PPG Ranking
2001 - 2002 73.7 111
2002 - 2003 80 14
2003 - 2004 73 90
2004 - 2005 75.5 36
2005 - 2006 72.9 90
2006 - 2007 75.5 52
2007 - 2008 78.5 25
2008 - 2009 81.8 8
2009 - 2010 81.5 6
2010 - 2011 73 60
2011 - 2012 74 39
2012 - 2013 71.3 80
2013 - 2014 68 253
2014 - 2015 68 170
2015 - 2016 72 209

9 out of 15 years we've ranked outside of the top 50 in terms of points per game and I bet if you look at data from the 90s our ranking is going to be even worse. The trend since the turn of the decade has been quite alarming. I think this data backs up my original point which is that the identity our program is defense not offense and I for one would like to see it change because I don't think you can win titles as a defense team. Basically our strategy is to always have a solid D, fit players to that D and then find one or two good offensive players to get output. I don't think this strategy will work in the ACC... there are too many good coaches and good players. We need to go back to developing solid offensive depth and backing that up with the D not the other way around. Luckily this year seems to be the start of the strategy with putting 4 "shooters" on the court, unfortunately we've no developed so many players the last few years offensively and we've had losses that have prevented us from seeing the benefits of that strategy.

I'm by no means saying ditch the zone but we need to start playing good offense again.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Nobody was asking for us to play man from 2009--2013.

Why is that relevant to 2015-2016? This team does not have that personnel.

 

[br801]

I love it when we get to play "six degrees of man v. zone."

 

[Knicks411]

I think offensive efficiency is overrated as a stat for measuring whether a team is offensively oriented or defensively oriented. Here are a few other stats:

SU PPG SU PPG Ranking
2001 - 2002 73.7 111
2002 - 2003 80 14
2003 - 2004 73 90
2004 - 2005 75.5 36
2005 - 2006 72.9 90
2006 - 2007 75.5 52
2007 - 2008 78.5 25
2008 - 2009 81.8 8
2009 - 2010 81.5 6
2010 - 2011 73 60
2011 - 2012 74 39
2012 - 2013 71.3 80
2013 - 2014 68 253
2014 - 2015 68 170
2015 - 2016 72 209

9 out of 15 years we've ranked outside of the top 50 in terms of points per game and I bet if you look at data from the 90s our ranking is going to be even worse. The trend since the turn of the decade has been quite alarming. I think this data backs up my original point which is that the identity our program is defense not offense and I for one would like to see it change because I don't think you can win titles as a defense team. Basically our strategy is to always have a solid D, fit players to that D and then find one or two good offensive players to get output. I don't think this strategy will work in the ACC... there are too many good coaches and good players. We need to go back to developing solid offensive depth and backing that up with the D not the other way around. Luckily this year seems to be the start of the strategy with putting 4 "shooters" on the court, unfortunately we've no developed so many players the last few years offensively and we've had losses that have prevented us from seeing the benefits of that strategy.

I'm by no means saying ditch the zone but we need to start playing good offense again.

That's in large part because we've played at a pretty slow pace for a while. You can't score a lot of points in a 60 possession game unless you're the Warriors. I'm not arguing whether the team identifies more offensively or defensively, but we've had more than 4 good offensive teams in the last 15 years.

 

[OrangeFoo]

That's in large part because we've played at a pretty slow pace for a while. You can't score a lot of points in a 60 possession game unless you're the Warriors. I'm not arguing whether the team identifies more offensively or defensively, but we've had more than 4 good offensive teams in the last 15 years.

Thats a fair point... I'm saying that scoring 70 ppg and relying on the zone isn't going to get us a title and given that's been our strategy lately we need to change. A few ways to increase ppg... Increase pace or increase efficiency. The only way to increase efficiency is to develop more scorers than we have in the past. I question whether we can do that or not because our coaches haven't shown the patientce to do that.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Thats a fair point... I'm saying that scoring 70 ppg and relying on the zone isn't going to get us a title and given that's been our strategy lately we need to change. A few ways to increase ppg... Increase pace or increase efficiency. The only way to increase efficiency is to develop more scorers than we have in the past. I question whether we can do that or not because our coaches haven't shown the patientce to do that.

Best way to increase efficiency is to get out and fast break. But to do that we need to rebound with authority. Can't see that happening with the zone especially against any decent team.

 

[br801]

Best way to increase efficiency is to get out and fast break. But to do that we need to rebound with authority. Can't see that happening with the zone especially against any decent team.

And which guards on this team look like they can effectively facilitate the break on a consistent basis?

 

[igor]

its not the players; the system is antiquated and ineffectve. who else plays a player without subbing that misses 12 consecutive threes.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Chris McCullough going down after 9 games last year too.

McCullough went down 16 games in.