worst 50 game stretch in JB era

[RF2044]

Chris McCullough going down after 9 games last year too.

I can't believe I didn't include this ^^^ above [edited, I have now].

This team's outlook would be completely different if he'd stuck around and was now getting onto the court. I honestly believe that.

 

[orangecuse]

All of these aforementioned guys just make me want/wish our recruiting emulated the likes of MSU recently. I'd much rather have high level college type kids who stay 3 to 4 years than our 1 or 2 year types, especially if they're going to leave with nothing to show for us. It seems Valentine has been there since Draymond Green for Pete's sake...oh yeah, I believe another 4 year guy.

 

[RF2044]

All of these aforementioned guys just make me want/wish our recruiting emulated the likes of MSU recently. I'd much rather have high level college type kids who stay 3 to 4 years than our 1 or 2 year types, especially if they're going to leave with nothing to show for us. It seems Valentine has been there since Draymon Green for Pete's sake...oh yeah, I believe another 4 year guy.

Interesting discussion point.

I have zero problem with JB chasing one-and-done talent. The issue I have is that we're getting lower end guys who fit that spectrum--Greene, McCullough, etc. Ennis was good, but not a trancendent talent. So we aren't getting maximum value out of having them here for just a single season.

That was my fear when I saw us recruiting Kobi Simmons. Amazing athlete, but his best basketball is three years away. Problem is, if he came here, he'd be long gone before his real talent begins to actualize.

Which begs the question: are we better off continuing to land McCullough types, or are we better off with CJ Fairs? Would we have been better off landing a four year guy who excelled at Florida and really wanted to come here, Alex Tyus, instead of Donte Greene? Would we gave been better off landing point guard Monte Morris who is a first team all american and killing it at Iowa State instead of Ennis?

And it will be interesting to see what happens with Lydon / Richardson [both of whom I expect to stay], Battle / Moyer next year, etc.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Interesting discussion point.

I have zero problem with JB chasing one-and-done talent. The issue I have is that we're getting lower end guys who fit that spectrum--Greene, McCullough, etc. Ennis was good, but not a trancendent talent. So we aren't getting maximum value out of having them here for just a single season.

That was my fear when I saw us recruiting Kobi Simmons. Amazing athlete, but his best basketball is three years away. Problem is, if he came here, he'd be long gone before his real talent begins to actualize.

Which begs the question: are we better off continuing to land McCullough types, or are we better off with CJ Fairs?

And it will be interesting to see what happens with Lydon / Richardson [both of whom I expect to stay], Battle / Moyer next year, etc.

If we're going to recruit OADs we need to be all in. We can't afford to be offering schollies to the Chinos and BJJs of the world and hope they develop in three years.

 

[Alsacs]

All of these aforementioned guys just make me want/wish our recruiting emulated the likes of MSU recently. I'd much rather have high level college type kids who stay 3 to 4 years than our 1 or 2 year types, especially if they're going to leave with nothing to show for us. It seems Valentine has been there since Draymond Green for Pete's sake...oh yeah, I believe another 4 year guy.

We need more Kris Joseph, Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, C.J. Fair players. Who are multiple year high performers.

Rak last year was that type of player but had no guard play to help him. This year we have 2 5th guards and only one of them is playing well.

 

[Alsacs]

If we're going to recruit OADs we need to be all in. We can't afford to be offering schollies to the Chinos and BJJs of the world and hope they develop in three years.

Johnson wasn't a waste. JB just didn't invest in him after he didn't RS. I think this year he would have been a solid SF option and we could split Richardson at SG/SF with minutes from both Cooney and Johnson.

Chino has been 3 years and still has under 250 career minutes that is the definition of a wasted scholarship. Good kid hope he can improve but doubtful.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Johnson wasn't a waste. JB just didn't invest in him after he didn't RS. I think this year he would have been a solid SF option and we could split Richardson at SG/SF with minutes from both Cooney and Johnson.

Chino has been 3 years and still has under 250 career minutes that is the definition of a wasted scholarship. Good kid hope he can improve but doubtful.

No I don't think hes a waste. He'll likely be a good player, but now it'll be for lasalle.

 

[CusefanATL]

We do this all the time, but no top program keeps their players. NONE. If they did, Cauley-Stein a would be playing center for UK right now, around a team of Booker and the Harrison twins. Okafor, Winslow and Parker would be playing for Duke. Sam Dekker would still be at Wisconsin. Andrew Wiggins would still be at Kansas. College basketball on the whole would be better, but thats not today. The top players other years would of went to different schools, because schools like Duke, Uk,UNC, Kansas and Syracuse and so on wouldn't continuously lose their top players. There would be more "great" teams.

We're not as good because the guys we recruited that we thought would be "program guys" (patterson, Johnson, Joseph, Chino) didn't or haven't panned out to fill in with the higher end talent we have brought in.

As I said in the post though, only Grant would have been the 1 truly ready to go pro (and after last year)

UK keeps their fringe players and loses the players they should.

We have lost our 3 fringe players. that was my point.

 

[CusefanATL]

Sure, didn't mean to say any differently. All it takes is one guy (Battle? Chukwu?).

Little harsh on Florida though, considering they made the FF in 2014.

yeesh, and the elite 8 in 2013, 2012, 2011! Although they werent a top 25 team in 2012.

I guess they just seemed irrelevant to me. but i was certainly wrong.

 

[Fly Rodder]

All of these aforementioned guys just make me want/wish our recruiting emulated the likes of MSU recently.

MSU has a hammer of a 2016 class coming in. They have four kids in the top 40, including two 5-stars.

 

[RF2044]

MSU has a hammer of a 2016 class coming in. They have four kids in the top 40, including two 5-stars.

I've heard people say that nobody takes a 3 star frontcourt player and turns them into a 5 star like Izzo.

I've also heard people say that nobody takes a 5 star guard and turns them into a 3 star like Izzo.

 

[br801]

All of these aforementioned guys just make me want/wish our recruiting emulated the likes of MSU recently. I'd much rather have high level college type kids who stay 3 to 4 years than our 1 or 2 year types, especially if they're going to leave with nothing to show for us. It seems Valentine has been there since Draymond Green for Pete's sake...oh yeah, I believe another 4 year guy.

Yeah, we might be able to make some deep runs in the NCAAT and an occasional Final Four if only we could get guys like Kris Joseph, C.J. Fair, Brandon Triche and Rakeem Christmas.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yeah, we might be able to make some deep runs in the NCAAT and an occasional Final Four if only we could get guys like Kris Joseph, C.J. Fair, Brandon Triche and Rakeem Christmas.

In the past it seemed like the guys who were nba ready would go, and the guys left would be legit college players.

In the class of 2007 Greene left after a year and Flynn after two years and both were 1st round picks (Flynn lottery). But Scoop and Jackson were good 4/5 year players.

In the c/o 2010 Waiters was a top five pick and Melo was first round pick after 2 years. Fair and Keita were good four year players.

MCW left after 2 years, Cooney is solid, though likely over-utilized. Rak became an All American

Contrast that with the last few years. in the class of 2013 we had one solid college player...and he left after one year. Two guys transferred, one guy we're still waiting for the light to come on, and one guy probably should have gone to a mid major.

Class of 2014 one guy had five productive games, tore his ACL, and went to the league. The other guy is on the Michael Edwards track.

 

[Eric15]

The fact that Boeheim's worst 50 game stretch ever is 6 games over .500 seems kind of amazing to me. Our consistency is incredible.

 

[Fly Rodder]

in the class of 2013 we had one solid college player...and he left after one year. Two guys transferred, one guy we're still waiting for the light to come on, and one guy probably should have gone to a mid major.

Overall, you're right. That was a big class and to get so little from it hurts the team. But it's a bit unfair to Roberson. He's probably not the best PF in the league, but as a recruit he was top-10 at his position. The top five are in the NBA. Two from the 5-10 transferred (and Lawrence completely flamed out). The other two play bench minutes for UK and UNC as juniors and Roberson is arguably outplaying both. A couple of the 10-15 guys made probably poor decisions to go to the NBA, but none are providing the production at PF that Roberson is, I don't think.

I think the whiff on Joseph and Obokoh is really hurting this year's team. It'd be different if Coleman wasn't injured, but they're lacking the dominant center and ultra capable PG they've had in seasons past. To have a 3rd guard like sophomore 2nd year Scoop this season would help so much.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Love JB - but really looking forward to playing some god damn man to man

Agree... Tired of everything about the zone.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Overall, you're right. That was a big class and to get so little from it hurts the team. But it's a bit unfair to Roberson. He's probably not the best PF in the league, but as a recruit he was top-10 at his position. The top five are in the NBA. Two from the 5-10 transferred (and Lawrence completely flamed out). The other two play bench minutes for UK and UNC as juniors and Roberson is arguably outplaying both. A couple of the 10-15 guys made probably poor decisions to go to the NBA, but none are providing the production at PF that Roberson is, I don't think.

I think the whiff on Joseph and Obokoh is really hurting this year's team. It'd be different if Coleman wasn't injured, but they're lacking the dominant center and ultra capable PG they've had in seasons past. To have a 3rd guard like sophomore 2nd year Scoop this season would help so much.

LOL. I forgot all about Jermaine Lawrence. What a disaster.

 

[djcon57]

As I said in the post though, only Grant would have been the 1 truly ready to go pro (and after last year)

UK keeps their fringe players and loses the players they should.

We have lost our 3 fringe players. that was my point.

This isn't true.
They JUST lost both Harrisons and Dakari Johnson

I can think of Archie Goodwin, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb as well.

 

[orangecuse]

MSU has a hammer of a 2016 class coming in. They have four kids in the top 40, including two 5-stars.

They too will probably stay 3 to 4 years. MSU has had solid recruiting classes in recent times, so this isn't really anything new. Their high ranked guys though haven't seemingly blown up overnight leaving voids in which we've recently experienced.

 

[bballbeadle]

Pretty amazing how quickly it went from the golden age to where we're at now.

YES! A few years ago I was smugly confident that we would be at the top of the heap for the next 5 years and beyond. Everything seemed to be coming up oranges for us.

 

[OrangeFoo]

My big concern is the lack of player development the last few years from non star players. Rak is a player who developed but he was also a micky d guy who had elite talent. We're not seeing the guys at that next level develop anymore. That BJ, Buss, Joseph, Chukwu, Coleman (you can argue injuries but the fact is he wasn't developing before injuries), Cooney, etc...

I get the feeling JB doesn't have the patience to nurture and develop talent any more. He wants guys who can do what he wants from day one and if they are not ready they will ride the pine. This has led us to many many unbalanced teams with little to no depth which has culminated in this seasons team which I think (hope) will be the low point.

I love JB but it's time to either go the full coach K route and get elite one and dones or go the Izzo route and develop players and mix them with elite guys. To the current strategy of lower level one and dones and recycling medium level talent is not working.

 

[orangehomer]

My big concern is the lack of player development the last few years from non star players. Rak is a player who developed but he was also a micky d guy who had elite talent. We're not seeing the guys at that next level develop anymore. That BJ, Buss, Joseph, Chukwu, Coleman (you can argue injuries but the fact is he wasn't developing before injuries), Cooney, etc...

I get the feeling JB doesn't have the patience to nurture and develop talent any more. He wants guys who can do what he wants from day one and if they are not ready they will ride the pine. This has led us to many many unbalanced teams with little to no depth which has culminated in this seasons team which I think (hope) will be the low point.

I love JB but it's time to either go the full coach K route and get elite one and dones or go the Izzo route and develop players and mix them with elite guys. To the current strategy of lower level one and dones and recycling medium level talent is not working.

Oh that's all we have to do, out recruit coach k for one and dones, brilliant

 

[FrancoPizza]

Agree... Tired of everything about the zone.

If hop learned m2m from JB we might be in for a huge letdown. Let's hope he is pulling knowledge from other resources on that front.

 

[br801]

If hop learned m2m from JB we might be in for a huge letdown. Let's hope he is pulling knowledge from other resources on that front.

Not to worry -- the pay side is saying some guy named Iggy is Hop's assistant coach in waiting.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Oh that's all we have to do, out recruit coach k for one and dones, brilliant

Well if you're not going to be patient enough to develop tier 2 guys I'm not sure what the alternative is. I know everyone is putting this down to bad luck over the past few years with graduations and early departures but the truth is we've had like 4 good offensive teams in 15 years. Even in our most recent "golden" era points have been hard to come by and the zone no longer is the factor it used to be because good teams know how to bust it and we're now in a league full of good teams and good coaches. It's time for a new identity for the team and the program outside of the zone and the iso-ball/run one guy around screens to get him an open 3 that we've played the last decade or so on offense. Unfortunately we don't have the players to do it so we better either develop some tier 2 guys or get a bunch of tier 1 guys and like I said I don't see the patience to do go the tier 2 strategy.