1-1-3 zone…..

[TeamGlasses]

1-3-1 zone with man to man principles that’s why the forwards are so fluid.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

1-3-1 zone with man to man principles that’s why the forwards are so fluid.

I think it's approprate to drop the term zone actually, too many pre conceived notions get in the way of understanding what they are trying to do. "Dynamic team defense with area, trapping and hand off responsibilities, depending on the opponents strengths." You think that will catch on?

 

[TeamGlasses]

I think it's approprate to drop the term zone actually, too many pre conceived notions get in the way of understanding what they are trying to do. "Dynamic team defense with area, trapping and hand off responsibilities, depending on the opponents strengths." You think that will catch on?

The defense will always be 2-3 so no, but explaining what we’re going to do against Nova will probably be something like we said. They have a guy named Samuels and a guy named Gillespie that can score it

 

[OrangeFoo]

I'm glad he made the move... but the FT line was still wide open against FSU. One of their kids basically started camping out on the left corner of the FT line box and nailing Js. Maybe that's the trade off for not giving up as many corner threes?

The answer to fixing the zone isn't switching the zone... it's going to have to be Symir playing starters minutes. The D is sooooo much more solid when he is in there because he's able to prevent his guy from dribbling into the heart of the zone, he's also strong enough to bother the guy at the FT line while being fast enough to get back to the perimeter if he needs to. Given how streaky Swider is, I think JB should rotate Buddy, JG3 and Swider at the guard/SF positions while letting Symir get most of the run at the point.

It would/will also be nice if/when Benny gets good enough to actually stay on the court.. Then you can have a 3 man forward rotation of Benny, Swider and Jimmy, a 2 man center rotation and a 4 guard/SF rotation of Buddy, JG3, Samir and Swider.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm glad he made the move... but the FT line was still wide open against FSU. One of their kids basically started camping out on the left corner of the FT line box and nailing Js. Maybe that's the trade off for not giving up as many corner threes?

The answer to fixing the zone isn't switching the zone... it's going to have to be Symir playing starters minutes. The D is sooooo much more solid when he is in there because he's able to prevent his guy from dribbling into the heart of the zone, he's also strong enough to bother the guy at the FT line while being fast enough to get back to the perimeter if he needs to. Given how streaky Swider is, I think JB should rotate Buddy, JG3 and Swider at the guard/SF positions while letting Symir get most of the run at the point.

It would/will also be nice if/when Benny gets good enough to actually stay on the court.. Then you can have a 3 man forward rotation of Benny, Swider and Jimmy, a 2 man center rotation and a 4 guard/SF rotation of Buddy, JG3, Samir and Swider.

I’m not big on advanced metrics, like some here are, but they say Sy is our weakest defender.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I’m not big on advanced metrics, like some here are, but they say Sy is our weakest defender.

wow... wouldn't have expected that.

 

[rrlbees]

wow... wouldn't have expected that.

Neither did I till I looked. Every regular except Edwards was a negative. Not that I’m totally surprised by that, but I was about Sy.

 

[djcon57]

I’m not big on advanced metrics, like some here are, but they say Sy is our weakest defender.

Personally not surprised at all. Said specifically in FSU game thread that I thought that last game was the first time he looked effective On D. Will be interesting if he improves if he plays more

 

[SWC75]

Matt Park called it "The 'I' formation".

I say use the 3-3-5 like the football team does and hope that the refs can't count.

 

[Jake]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I’d love to see this adjustment with better athletes on the floor. I think it could be even more effective.

Love the video of UNLVs amoeba defense. That was soooooo ahead it’s time. Really pushed opposing offenses back and forced them to start their offense so far from the basket.

Tark was a cheat, but was an excellent coach.

 

[81South]

Tark the Shark references…..love it. For the young ones here you may not know that he chewed on a wet towel during games…..for real.

 

[rrlbees]

Tark the Shark references…..love it. For the young ones here you may not know that he chewed on a wet towel during games…..for real.

It was wet with vodka

 

[IthacaMatt]

Had to laugh. The two kids calling the game on WAER seemed clueless. Are these kids getting their money’s worth at Newhouse? Someone called in and asked “isn’t it 1-3-1?” And one of the two responded “whatever”.

Well, the 3 has to come last, like in 2-3! Right? Right?

 

[Ceerqqq]

Had to laugh. The two kids calling the game on WAER seemed clueless. Are these kids getting their money’s worth at Newhouse? Someone called in and asked “isn’t it 1-3-1?” And one of the two responded “whatever”.

I think the reason JB called it a 1-1-3 instead of a 1-3-1 is because the only change he made from his normal "2-3" was in the responsibilities of the "2"

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think the reason JB called it a 1-1-3 instead of a 1-3-1 is because the only change he made from his normal "2-3" was in the responsibilities of the "2"

It also relates to where the forwards line up to start the possession, and who mans the middle of the 3. In a traditional 1-3-1, the center would be in the middle of the 3 at the foul line (or higher if you were playing 1-3-1 half court - anyone from the Albany area in the 80s would remember that CBA defense) with a taller guard behind him running the baseline.

Our big men all start in a traditional 2-3 positioning, which immediately takes away the corner. I love it because I've been saying for awhile now that our forwards start too high, making our D look more like a 4-1, and leaving Jesse (or Marek or Sid, etc.) completely on an island.

 

[CusefanATL]

It also relates to where the forwards line up to start the possession, and who mans the middle of the 3. In a traditional 1-3-1, the center would be in the middle of the 3 at the foul line (or higher if you were playing 1-3-1 half court - anyone from the Albany area in the 80s would remember that CBA defense) with a taller guard behind him running the baseline.

Our big men all start in a traditional 2-3 positioning, which immediately takes away the corner. I love it because I've been saying for awhile now that our forwards start too high, making our D look more like a 4-1, and leaving Jesse (or Marek or Sid, etc.) completely on an island.

The forwards have moved up considerably. It LOOKS like the classic 1-3-1 which is why everyone is calling it the 1-3-1 so i'm really surprised to see you say that it LOOKS like a 1-1-3... especially because the corner is where FSU got their best looks.

The thing that makes this a Boeheim science expierment is Jesse and Frank were mainly responsible for covering the corners like a 1-3-1.. but they were playing the back 1 which is usually saved for a guard/quicker athlete in a typical 1-3-1. but that back 1 is the 1 covering the corner.

it doesnt really matter 2-3, 1-3-1, or 1-1-3... a lot of concepts are the same. boeheim is tinkering with his own zone at this point.

 

[IthacaMatt]

In a traditional 1-3-1, the center would be in the middle of the 3 at the foul line (or higher if you were playing 1-3-1 half court - anyone from the Albany area in the 80s would remember that CBA defense) with a taller guard behind him running the baseline.

You don't necessarily play the center in the middle. Usually (if I were coaching), I would put the big man at the bottom. I would place my point guard up top, my shooting guard in the middle, and my forwards on the wings, in the positions they usually take up in the 2-3, or maybe just a bit lower.

 

[SWC75]

Really, isn't a zone a zone, with variations? The difference between a 2-3 and a 1-3-1 isn't the same as the difference between a 2-3 and man-to-man or a press.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Really, isn't a zone a zone, with variations? The difference between a 2-3 and a 1-3-1 isn't the same as the difference between a 2-3 and man-to-man or a press.

Well, there are different strategies, different slides or rotations, depending on how you play your zone, and what you design it to prevent.

What's the difference between the Power I and the Wishbone? They're both designed for primarily run-oriented offenses, but there are advantages and certain options based on the placement of the players in the formation.

 

[007]

Really, isn't a zone a zone, with variations? The difference between a 2-3 and a 1-3-1 isn't the same as the difference between a 2-3 and man-to-man or a press.

pretty big difference between the 2-3 and 1-3-1 in terms of rotations, what you are trying to prevent and what you will likely give up, the types of athletes you need at both of the "1" positions, and the way the offense will set up to try to attack it (odd vs even man fronts). You don't see a lot of 1-3-1 because, unless you have superior athletes at the 1s and in the middle, it's much easier to attack than the 2-3.

 

[SWC75]

Well, there are different strategies, different slides or rotations, depending on how you play your zone, and what you design it to prevent.

What's the difference between the Power I and the Wishbone? They're both designed for primarily run-oriented offenses, but there are advantages and certain options based on the placement of the players in the formation.

pretty big difference between the 2-3 and 1-3-1 in terms of rotations, what you are trying to prevent and what you will likely give up, the types of athletes you need at both of the "1" positions, and the way the offense will set up to try to attack it (odd vs even man fronts). You don't see a lot of 1-3-1 because, unless you have superior athletes at the 1s and in the middle, it's much easier to attack than the 2-3.

Of course there are certain advantages and disadvantages to each zone alignment. But the big difference is whether you are covering areas or following guys around wherever they go. A zone team ought to be able switch zone alignments more easily than switch to a man-for-man.