#1 Miami @ Syracuse 1992

[OrangePA]

For the record, I never officially boarded the good ship coachpmustgo until the Rutgers loss in 1999.

Didn't the Ohio State fans organize a pre game parade down Marshall Street? They were nuts. Will never forget at halftime they waited until we were done slinking off the field, down 17-6. Lined up in two lines and slowly marched off the field to their fans blowing the roof off the Dome.

I never joined that ship.

I believe that in 1999 we had just lost the greatest QB in the history of the program and came within a boneheaded safety by Nunes - and a throw into the ground by Madei Williams - of winning the Michigan game.

I think we went bowling that year. And had been to the Gator, Liberty, Fiesta and Orange Bowls in the previous four seasons.

Even considering launching a "ship" at that point was ridiculous.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I never joined that ship.

I believe that in 1999 we had just lost the greatest QB in the history of the program and came within a boneheaded safety by Nunes - and a throw into the ground by Madei Williams - of winning the Michigan game.

I think we went bowling that year. And had been to the Gator, Liberty, Fiesta and Orange Bowls in the previous four seasons.

Even considering launching a "ship" at that point was ridiculous.

reality is only ' bad' year was 03 and that was followed up by a BET Championship and a Bowl.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

I never joined that ship.

I believe that in 1999 we had just lost the greatest QB in the history of the program and came within a boneheaded safety by Nunes - and a throw into the ground by Madei Williams - of winning the Michigan game.

I think we went bowling that year. And had been to the Gator, Liberty, Fiesta and Orange Bowls in the previous four seasons.

Even considering launching a "ship" at that point was ridiculous.

Orange PA, did you work in the SU AD during Coach P's tenure? For some reason I thought you had mentioned that before.

In any case, I think a lot of people in central New York thought Coach P's teams had underperformed in those years with McNabb. They played up to and down to their level of competition in those years, and could be maddening to watch at times. Huge win against Michigan at the Big House, only to get thumped by a middling NC State team a couple of weeks later.

In 1997 they hammer a good Wisconsin team to open the season, only to lose to NC State and Oklahoma in the next two weeks. Two teams we should have beaten. Then they got thumped by VPI.

People were expecting big things rightly or wrongly out of those teams, and they always seemed to lose games they should have won, and then also pulled some games out of their hat that they should have lost. They were consistently inconsistent, and I think a lot of people decided that laid squarely at the feet of the head coach.

Then 1999 comes, and it looks as if the ONLY reason that team won as much as they did the previous couple of years was because of McNabb, and the coaching would never get us back to that level again.

I never really felt that way in '99 for the reasons you state. They were replacing a ton on offense, and to be able to go 7-5 that year with a Music City Bowl victory wasn't bad. But again, as was the case with everything in Coach P's tenure, it wasn't always wins and losses, but the WAY they won or lost. A loss to Rutgers? RUTGERS???? A 1-10 Rutgers team that lost by an average of 24 points per contest that year. They weren't even remotely a mediocre team in those days, so losing to either Rutgers or Temple was way out of the question. Then a 62-0 stomping by VPI. Granted, they weren't going to win that game, but to lose like they did left a bad taste.

I truly didn't abandon the Coach P. ship until 2004 when we got smoked by a good, not great Purdue team 51-0.

Coach P. was a good man, and a good coach. He had a knack for winning big games, and also blowing big games. He had a knack for sometimes losing to teams he shouldn't have. He was a good, but flawed coach who finally crumbled due to his befuddling losses, along with a football infrastructure that didn't give him a chance to succeed in the present CFB landscape.

I don't agree with it, but I can completely see why people jumped off the bandwagon after the Rutgers loss. There had been too many strange losses, and uninspired efforts in the previous four years. People waiting in the wings were ready to pounce, and that loss gave them a perfect opportunity.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Picked up this shirt from a Southern Thrift here in Nashville. Hopefully we'll play Miami at some point...

 

[OrangePA]

Orange PA, did you work in the SU AD during Coach P's tenure? For some reason I thought you had mentioned that before.

In any case, I think a lot of people in central New York thought Coach P's teams had underperformed in those years with McNabb. They played up to and down to their level of competition in those years, and could be maddening to watch at times. Huge win against Michigan at the Big House, only to get thumped by a middling NC State team a couple of weeks later.

In 1997 they hammer a good Wisconsin team to open the season, only to lose to NC State and Oklahoma in the next two weeks. Two teams we should have beaten. Then they got thumped by VPI.

People were expecting big things rightly or wrongly out of those teams, and they always seemed to lose games they should have won, and then also pulled some games out of their hat that they should have lost. They were consistently inconsistent, and I think a lot of people decided that laid squarely at the feet of the head coach.

Then 1999 comes, and it looks as if the ONLY reason that team won as much as they did the previous couple of years was because of McNabb, and the coaching would never get us back to that level again.

I never really felt that way in '99 for the reasons you state. They were replacing a ton on offense, and to be able to go 7-5 that year with a Music City Bowl victory wasn't bad. But again, as was the case with everything in Coach P's tenure, it wasn't always wins and losses, but the WAY they won or lost. A loss to Rutgers? RUTGERS???? A 1-10 Rutgers team that lost by an average of 24 points per contest that year. They weren't even remotely a mediocre team in those days, so losing to either Rutgers or Temple was way out of the question. Then a 62-0 stomping by VPI. Granted, they weren't going to win that game, but to lose like they did left a bad taste.

I truly didn't abandon the Coach P. ship until 2004 when we got smoked by a good, not great Purdue team 51-0.

Coach P. was a good man, and a good coach. He had a knack for winning big games, and also blowing big games. He had a knack for sometimes losing to teams he shouldn't have. He was a good, but flawed coach who finally crumbled due to his befuddling losses, along with a football infrastructure that didn't give him a chance to succeed in the present CFB landscape.

I don't agree with it, but I can completely see why people jumped off the bandwagon after the Rutgers loss. There had been too many strange losses, and uninspired efforts in the previous four years. People waiting in the wings were ready to pounce, and that loss gave them a perfect opportunity.

No.

I never worked for the University.

But I have been close to the Football Program for over forty years.

This has all been re-hashed many times: (1) the Syracuse teams in those years were never national championship caliber teams - the fans, many of whom are on this board typically overestimated our talent level; (2) the facilities those teams had were pitiful - and again many on this board had no idea that that was the case; (3) those teams won a lot of games and went to many bowl games including the Fiesta, Orange, Gator, Liberty Bowls; (3) the program was universally respected and (4) the fact that those teams on rare occasion lost games they were favored to win is always way overblown on this board - all good teams lose games they are supposed to win - Pete Carroll's great USC team lost to a one-win Stanford team and lost other games they were supposed to win - Don Shula's 17 point favorite Colts lost the Jets - Jim Boeheim's teams have lost those kinds of games on many occasions - Vermont, Richmond, et al.

If I could have a repeat of Pasqualoni gave us for thirteen years - actually more than that - when he arrived the team went to the Sugar Bowl - I would take it in a heartbeat - even with an occasional loss to a Rutgers or Temple or even NC State.

 

[NJCuse97]

Haven't looked it up but OSU didn't exactly set the world on fire in 1992. We dominated Miami in the 2nd half by being physical. Did Deleone just have a poor game plan for the Buckeyes?

My recall on it was that Robert Smith was considering sitting out the season until the week before our game? He wanted to enter the pre-med program and the OSU coaches felt that was not a good use of his time, so he suggested he would sit out because he went to OSU to play school. This wasn't just posturing because he did exactly that in 1991, and everyone thought he would actually miss another season, or transfer. That left OSU very one dimensional with the ball in Herbstreit's hands. From his Wiki page

While in college, he openly criticized the Ohio State football staff for not allowing him to concentrate on academics, as he wanted to eventually attend medical school; he sat out the 1991 football season, switching to a track and field scholarship. For the Buckeyes' track team, he posted a personal-best time of 10.24 seconds in the 100 meters.[3][4] He seriously considered transferring to either USC or Stanford University to play football. But Ohio State coach John Cooper had kept the door open for Smith to return to the Buckeyes' football team, and Smith finally returned to play in 1992.[5]

We game planned as if he wouldn't be there, and he showed up. When we tried to adjust to his presence, they adjusted by throwing. We were caught with our pants down and most of what they tried worked. For the record, they finished the year with 8 wins ranked #18.

 

[NJCuse97]

Actually in watching some of this, I seem to have remembered it differently. They were missing Joey Galloway and Herbstreit was hurting. We didn't play the pass well. Must have assumed they would run all day.

 

[MSOrange]

My recall on it was that Robert Smith was considering sitting out the season until the week before our game? He wanted to enter the pre-med program and the OSU coaches felt that was not a good use of his time, so he suggested he would sit out because he went to OSU to play school. This wasn't just posturing because he did exactly that in 1991, and everyone thought he would actually miss another season, or transfer. That left OSU very one dimensional with the ball in Herbstreit's hands. From his Wiki page

While in college, he openly criticized the Ohio State football staff for not allowing him to concentrate on academics, as he wanted to eventually attend medical school; he sat out the 1991 football season, switching to a track and field scholarship. For the Buckeyes' track team, he posted a personal-best time of 10.24 seconds in the 100 meters.[3][4] He seriously considered transferring to either USC or Stanford University to play football. But Ohio State coach John Cooper had kept the door open for Smith to return to the Buckeyes' football team, and Smith finally returned to play in 1992.[5]

We game planned as if he wouldn't be there, and he showed up. When we tried to adjust to his presence, they adjusted by throwing. We were caught with our pants down and most of what they tried worked. For the record, they finished the year with 8 wins ranked #18.

I remember how Smith was really big into academics and that whole controversy. Based on that, I figured he was one that would follow through and go to medical school after retirement - not become another ESPN talking head.

 

[cuserulesall]

You know what's really sad is we now call that time are glory days . Retool and get those days back ! We now have the cash to refurbish the Dome , thanks to the ACC ! We already have added a nice indoor practice field . Just gotta get are MOJO back ! Go Cuse !

 

[SWC75]

Picked up this shirt from a Southern Thrift here in Nashville. Hopefully we'll play Miami at some point...

What size is that?!?

 

[SWC75]

No.

I never worked for the University.

But I have been close to the Football Program for over forty years.

This has all been re-hashed many times: (1) the Syracuse teams in those years were never national championship caliber teams - the fans, many of whom are on this board typically overestimated our talent level; (2) the facilities those teams had were pitiful - and again many on this board had no idea that that was the case; (3) those teams won a lot of games and went to many bowl games including the Fiesta, Orange, Gator, Liberty Bowls; (3) the program was universally respected and (4) the fact that those teams on rare occasion lost games they were favored to win is always way overblown on this board - all good teams lose games they are supposed to win - Pete Carroll's great USC team lost to a one-win Stanford team and lost other games they were supposed to win - Don Shula's 17 point favorite Colts lost the Jets - Jim Boeheim's teams have lost those kinds of games on many occasions - Vermont, Richmond, et al.

If I could have a repeat of Pasqualoni gave us for thirteen years - actually more than that - when he arrived the team went to the Sugar Bowl - I would take it in a heartbeat - even with an occasional loss to a Rutgers or Temple or even NC State.

If I recall, you described the What losses and the national TV blow-outs as "mole hills" as if they had little affect on how the program was perceived by recruits.

And many on the board felt that you purposely underestimated our talent level and overestimated the facilities problem simply to deflect criticism of the coaches. It seemed like your loyalty was more to the coaches than to the school.

 

[Chip]

I never joined that ship. I believe that in 1999 we had just lost the greatest QB in the history of the program and came within a boneheaded safety by Nunes - and a throw into the ground by Madei Williams - of winning the Michigan game. I think we went bowling that year. And had been to the Gator, Liberty, Fiesta and Orange Bowls in the previous four seasons. Even considering launching a "ship" at that point was ridiculous.

Heartwarming

 

[Scooch]

All he had to do was beat Rutgers in '03 and Temple in '04.

 

[KaiserUEO]

All he had to do was beat Rutgers in '03 and Temple in '04.

imagine if he beat temple.

7-4, outright BE Championship and the Fiesta Bowl.

where he, and the Orange, likely wouldve gotten waxed by urbans utes.

people wouldve lost their shlit losing to a non BCS team.

the wee one wouldve likely fired him anyway.

the only question is whether chip wouldve found his way into a box at sundevil stadium to witness it.

 

[Scooch]

imagine if he beat temple. 7-4, outright BE Championship and the Fiesta Bowl. where he, and the Orange, likely wouldve gotten waxed by urbans utes. people wouldve lost their shlit losing to a non BCS team. the wee one wouldve likely fired him anyway. the only question is whether chip wouldve found his way into a box at sundevil stadium to witness it.

No chance we fire him if we got a BCS payday.

 

[KaiserUEO]

No chance we fire him if we got a BCS payday.

i agree.

wonder how many years that wouldve bought him though...

 

[OrangeXtreme]

i agree.

wonder how many years that wouldve bought him though...

2005 was the last year of his contract.

West Virginia (11-1)
Buffalo (1-10)
Virginia (7-5)
at FSU (8-5)
at UConn (5-6)
Rutgers (7-5)
at Pitt (5-6)
Cinci (4-7)
USF (6-6)
at ND (9-3)
at Louisville (9-3)

The good news is that we'd have Ray Rice (and Rutgirls wouldn't). He would have either redshirted in 2005, or came off the bench behind Rhodes.

I see 4 wins (UB, UConn, Rutgers, Cinci), and 2 tossups (Pitt and USF).

Would P have been renewed at 5-6?

 

[OrangePA]

If I recall, you described the What losses and the national TV blow-outs as "mole hills" as if they had little affect on how the program was perceived by recruits.

And many on the board felt that you purposely underestimated our talent level and overestimated the facilities problem simply to deflect criticism of the coaches. It seemed like your loyalty was more to the coaches than to the school.

This will be my last post in this thread - because to argue this any further is silly.

It is simple math.

Fiesta Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, Orange Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Hall of Fame Bowl, Gator Bowl, Music City Bowl, Insight Bowl, Champs Bowl - three 10 win seasons - three to four nine win seasons - multiple BE Championships - over 100 wins. (And that doesn't count the wins and bowls that came after Pasqualoni and DeLeone became assistants)

That's it. Those are the facts. That is a great record. Period.

As far as your assessment of my loyalty, let me say this.

I have known every HC and a number of assistant coaches, school officials and administrators since Ben Schwartzwalder was HC. Your presumptions about my "loyalty" are as fact-based as your presumptions about the Program's facilities, money and talent over the years. You have no facts.

And you - especially you - sorry - have epitomized the striking misperceptions that so many fans had during that time.

I remember you insisting to me on this board, for the longest time, that our facilities were comparable to those of our competition - that we were right there with Ohio State - and you - sorry again - were not even close to being right about that.

I know you love SU Football and I appreciate that. It's great. And I know you only want to see the best for the Program.

But you and many, many others, looked at the media guides and the Carrier Dome and just assumed that we had the structural assets necessary to compete against the top tier programs. We were a joke.

After Marrone's Pinstripe Bowl win he assured the Athletic Department and the Orange Club that despite the infrastructure efforts made after Dr. Gross became AD, SU Football remained dead last in the new Big East in terms of football infrastructure - dead last in the Big East - not the ACC or the Big Ten - the new Big East.

And what we had by that time was "Alabama" compared to what we had when Pasqualoni was HC.

Yes, we had McNabb and we had Marvin Harrison and some other very fine players. But we did not have enough of them - we did not have the kind of OL or DL talent or depth that NCs have and we were never close to winning a NC.

SU Football never had the kind of overall talent that SU BB has had.

And I suspect that the national success of the BB program heightened and has continued to heighten SU FB fan expectations. To the point of being unrealistic.

To suggest that a loss to Rutgers or Temple hurt recruiting is again just not accurate

Awful AstroTurf in the Dome - poor training/medical facilities - no indoor practice facility - no weight room facility (!!!???) is what hurt recruiting.

Fiesta Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, Orange Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Hall of Fame Bowl, Gator Bowl, Music City Bowl, Insight Bowl, Champs Bowl - three 10 win seasons - three to four nine win seasons - multiple BE Championships - over 100 wins. There's nothing more to discuss. The facts are the facts. To argue otherwise is silly.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Fun Fact that only i care about but will bore you all with anyway, since you all bore me with all your ridiculous posts...

i went to that temple game and wanted to see if i double dipped the Giants that sunday...i did not they were away at arizona, so being in philly makes perfect sense, but anywho...that weekend was a pivotal point for my football teams. the loss to temple on Saturday, while certainly not the final straw on the camels back, helped usher in the post-P era and we got to witness grobbycakes drive the Orange right through a brick wall and off a cliff. then on Sunday, the Giants lost to arizona, were still 5-4, but Tom Coughlin had enough of Kurt Warner and inserted Eli for the rest of the season and we got to witness him drive the NYG right through a brick wall and up into the stratosphere of multi-championships.

2 nondescript losses in the middle of a season, on the same weekend...jumpstarted 2 teams to go in remarkably different ways that only 1 person on the face of the earth cares enough to notice or talk about.

scooch, can we do a 30 for 30 on this??

 

[NashvilleOrange]

What size is that?!?

Large; not the first Cuse thing I've found in thrift stores here.

 

[SWC75]

This will be my last post in this thread - because to argue this any further is silly.

It is simple math.

Fiesta Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, Orange Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Hall of Fame Bowl, Gator Bowl, Music City Bowl, Insight Bowl, Champs Bowl - three 10 win seasons - three to four nine win seasons - multiple BE Championships - over 100 wins. (And that doesn't count the wins a bowls that came after Pasqualoni and DeLeone became assistants)

That's it. Those are the facts. That is a great record. Period.

As far as your assessment of my loyalty, let me say this.

I have known every HC and a number of assistant coaches, school officials and administrators since Ben Schwartzwalder was HC. Your presumptions about my "loyalty" are as fact-based as your presumptions about the Program's facilities, money and talent over the years. You have no facts.

And you - especially you - sorry - have epitomized the striking misperceptions that so many fans had during that time.

I remember you insisting to me on this board, for the longest time, that our facilities were comparable to those of our competition - that we were right there with Ohio State - and you - sorry again - were not even close to being right about that.

I know you love SU Football fan and I appreciate that. It's great. And I know you only want to see the best for the Program.

But you and many, many others, looked at the media guides and the Carrier Dome and just assumed that we had the structural assets necessary to compete against the top tier programs. We were a joke.

After Marrone's Pinstripe Bowl win he assured the Athletic Department and the Orange Club that despite the infrastructure efforts made after Dr. Gross became AD, SU Football remained dead last in the new Big East in terms of football infrastructure - dead last in the Big East - not the ACC or the Big Ten - the new Big East.

And what we had by that time was "Alabama" when compared to what we had when Pasqualoni was HC.

Yes, we had McNabb and we had Marvin Harrison and some other very fine players. But we did not have enough of them - we did not have the kind of OL or DL talent or depth that NCs have and we were never close to winning a NC.

SU Football never had the kind of overall talent that SU BB has had.

And I suspect that the national success of the BB program heightened and has continued to heighten SU FB fan expectations. To the point of being unrealistic.

To suggest that a loss to Rutgers or Temple hurt recruiting is again just not accurate

Awful AstroTurf in the Dome - poor training/medical facilities - no indoor practice facility - no weight room facility (!!!???) is what hurt recruiting.

Fiesta Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, Orange Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Hall of Fame Bowl, Gator Bowl, Music City Bowl, Insight Bowl, Champs Bowl - three 10 win seasons - three to four nine win seasons - multiple BE Championships - over 100 wins. There's nothing more to discuss. The facts are the facts. To argue otherwise is silly.

Actually, there are some good points there. A few more:

I never compared SU's facilities to Ohio State or any other specific school. i merely point out that they had been upgraded on a fairly regular basis over the years. I realize that a "facilities war" developed over the last generation or so and we may have been a bit slow to respond but statements that "we never did anything" were provably wrong and I don't think our faculties were ever a 'joke'. We managed all the success you mentioned at the beginning of the post with what we had. Then we declined despite upgrades. I came on the board in 1999 and do not recall much discussion of facilities until Pasqualoni's job was in jeopardy. Then it became the whole reason for his problems, according to his defenders.

We had the most future NFL players in the roster that we've ever had in the Pasqualoni era. Not enough to be regular national championship contenders but to beat Florida, Ohio State, Texas, Colorado, Miami, Michigan and Notre Dame and to nearly beat Tennessee's national championship team and Florida State. it made losses to East Carolina, Rutgers and Temple and blow-out losses to Miami, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Purdue and Georgia Tech difficult to understand. And when we went 35-14, (23-5 in conference), never ranking higher than 14th in four rears with Donovan McNabb while Virginia Tech went 22-2 (13-1), ranked in the top 5 both years and played for the national championship in two years with Michael Vick, it left a lot of people with the feeling we could do better. But whatever happened, you always seemed to be arguing that it was the most we could have expected. The important thing was not to criticize the coach.

Now back to 2015.